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[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1843106]
[QUOTE=TW Scott]
Actually a Star Wars vessel would have an easier time detecting No-ships than ST would St is routinely fooled by ships hiding in magnetic poles. SW sensors can detect the gravity of a star clear across the galaxy and differentiate it from other stars. [/QUOTE]
Not this crap again...
Scott, give it a rest - the Ent-E can track you by residual subspace distortions left by the gravity well your SHIP presents via it's own mass. Just because the ENt-D had problems doesn't mean the Ent-E has em anymore... nor most of their current ships![/QUOTE]
Might I also point out that TW's vaunted and totally biased evaluation is incorrect:
1. Star Trek Generations: It is clear that not only can Stellar Cartography detect and differentiate the variables for different galactic bodies, the starship's resource can also calculate sector wide gravity changes dependant on the effects of Soran's energy nexus, and further predict the (changes in) movements of everything in the scan range.
Stellar Cartography is evidence in and of itself that Trek sensors are much better than TW wishes they were. Indeed, this is also a Voyager add-on (even though a Stellar Cartography facility isn't part of Voyager's original specs, Voyager's crew clearly had the tech to build [I]Astrometrics[/I]). However two more examples...
2. Star Trek TNG: Redemption: Cloaked Romulan vessels can be detected via a network of tachyon sensors (I believe they were tachyon). At any rate, Trek tech includes sensors to defeat methods of cloaking.
3. The Enterprise-D becomes capable of firing a tachyon pulse itself by the end of TNG (All Good Things), in order to scan past temporal interference. Since all crew members retained their memories of the temporal event, it is safe to say that a tetryon scanner is useable as canon. Let's look past the fact that tachyon beams could be excessively dangerous if used on temporal anomalies ;)
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[QUOTE=Flectarn;1842944]well there are lots of different opinions on that (as you may have noticed)
if it's republic and CIS wouldn't things like centerpoint, galaxy gun, star forge, sun crusher still be inadmissible because they are either pre-or post-republic?[/QUOTE]
No, they are all Republic, or CIS designed. The Galactic Republic is fromed during the Expansionist Era, but it went under many changes to shape into the Republic we see in the movies, and CIS+ Republic = Empire. The last change is after the Seventh Battle of Ruusan. When I mean Republic, I ment After Seveth Battle of Ruusan, that still inculdes all superweapon.
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[QUOTE=Flectarn;1842942]so your esteem for them is based only the power they have demonstrated?[/QUOTE]
Yes and No.
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[QUOTE=USS Enterprise-B;1843035]How is this relevent? I was talking about hand-phaser firepower.
Besides, Voyager crossed the galaxy in under aprox. 5 mins via the transwarp network. We're only a few minutes behind you.[/QUOTE]
Few minuts means alot in battle.
[QUOTE]Uh, I know that the the republic had swamp troopers.
We're talking about the [COLOR="Lime"]Empire[/COLOR]![/QUOTE]
Swamp troopers are both Imperial and Republic. Anything after Order 66 is imperial too.
[QUOTE]:confused:
It's EU, suck it up.
Not even close.[/QUOTE]
EU is canon
[QUOTE]You don't cite your information on usable resourses. You're not entirely like TW, but similar.[/QUOTE]
Want me to bring in Dark Empire?
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[QUOTE=antaran_1979;1843076]to Skywalker
"Here is a better reason. They hate EU because it is too good for them to handle."
i can't vouch for enyone else, i personaly dislike EU, ST and SW novelizations and comics for 1 simple reason. i hate milk-cows, if you know what i mean. i tryed rreading novelisations once, and was nearly insnared by the suposed aditional information they provide. but i hate inconsistancies, and they apear to be aboundand with those. just 1 example:
STTMP novelisation, written by Gene Roddenberry humself, states that warp drive propels the ship trough diferent levels of hyperspace. a clear contradiction from what we see during 7 years of TNG or 10 ST movies. but when i was 13 i didn't matter. i was just a fan boy. largely ignorant on the topic (i haven't watched all of ST back then).
so for the same reason i hate Nemesis (Picard was not bold at the academy) and other movies.
but, just because i hate them, it does not mean they should not be analised. i don't say EU is not canon. it's just not movie canon. even the oficial SW site distinguishes movies from EU, and for a reason. to prevent confusion and contradiction (since EU is written by multiple writers). so when i discuss ST vs SW, i stick with what is put on screen. if they wanna make more money, let them make more movies, i won't buy their bad fiction. Herbert,Simmons and Asimov are far better read then ST and SW stuff :cool:[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I mainly directed that to other people.
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[QUOTE=SkywalkerJedi;1843704]No, they are all Republic, or CIS designed. The Galactic Republic is fromed during the Expansionist Era, but it went under many changes to shape into the Republic we see in the movies, and CIS+ Republic = Empire. The last change is after the Seventh Battle of Ruusan. When I mean Republic, I ment After Seveth Battle of Ruusan, that still inculdes all superweapon.[/QUOTE]
if the star forge was destroyed in 3,500 bby and the battle of Ruusan took place in 1,000 bby. then by your standards they are not part of the same republic
I take it from this you consider the Galactic Republic (pre-empire) and the New Republic (post-empire) to be the same entitiy?
actually from what i've read on wookiepedia, a good chuck of the CIS continued to fight after the republic fell into imperialism.... so CIS+republic doesn't exactly equal Empire
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[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1843107]Sardonic, please let me know what you wanted me to counter- I lost your posts in Jedi and TW's crap :(
I declare SW officially dead... lets find out how ST vs Dune would go... this Fold Jump thing sounds... interesting... I almost think it's along the lines of a chroniton jump used in Voyager... would that mean temporal shielding would protect the ship against such an attack? Or doesn't fold-jumping effect the transfer of time?[/QUOTE]
More like your brain dead. Star Wars is not losing.
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[QUOTE=SkywalkerJedi;1843709]Few minuts means alot in battle.
?[/QUOTE]
Not really, as we're talking about strategic speeds here. I guess it would matter if the attacking fleet included a death star, but otherwise existing planarity defenses should be able to hold up until reinforcements arrive. and unless your attacking a fixed position superior strategic speed is kind of like showing up for a party early, you get to prepare stuff, but it's nor very exciting
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[QUOTE=antaran_1979;1843144]
[QUOTE]2.what we see consistantly in RoTJ is a lot of pyrothechics in and no damage to th trees in most sceens and in one particular scene no pyrothechics at all, but extensive damage to the thinner trees. that is why i think AT-STs have two types of ammo: AP and HE (incidiery).[/QUOTE]
There is one type: Light Blaster Cannons.
[QUOTE]3.if they blast a chunk of a concrete or durasteel wall, tree bark should pose no problems.[/QUOTE]
They are no problem, you ignored the one that snaped a tree into peices.
[QUOTE]4. we have seen them desintegrate humanoids and household objects, drill holes in rock and even some seismic activity, but seldom or never any scortches. as we agreed their action is not primary thermal, although they can obviously raise temperature in objects when used on some fyiring modes.[/QUOTE]
Keyword: [B]Blast[/B]er, not Melter. They blasts stuff, not melt them, but they do burn so things.
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[QUOTE=Enterprise-D;1843702]Might I also point out that TW's vaunted and totally biased evaluation is incorrect:
1. Star Trek Generations: It is clear that not only can Stellar Cartography detect and differentiate the variables for different galactic bodies, the starship's resource can also calculate sector wide gravity changes dependant on the effects of Soran's energy nexus, and further predict the (changes in) movements of everything in the scan range.[/QUOTE]
Kamino is beyond the Outer Rim, and it got erased from the archives.
[QUOTE]Stellar Cartography is evidence in and of itself that Trek sensors are much better than TW wishes they were. Indeed, this is also a Voyager add-on (even though a Stellar Cartography facility isn't part of Voyager's original specs, Voyager's crew clearly had the tech to build [I]Astrometrics[/I]). However two more examples...[/QUOTE]
So, Star Wars can do more then that. Kamino build a huge army in 10 years by itself. Han Solo made the Falcon military standard himself with chewie.
[QUOTE]2. Star Trek TNG: Redemption: Cloaked Romulan vessels can be detected via a network of tachyon sensors (I believe they were tachyon). At any rate, Trek tech includes sensors to defeat methods of cloaking.[/QUOTE]
So can Star Wars.
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[QUOTE=Flectarn;1843721]Not really, as we're talking about strategic speeds here. I guess it would matter if the attacking fleet included a death star, but otherwise existing planarity defenses should be able to hold up until reinforcements arrive. and unless your attacking a fixed position superior strategic speed is kind of like showing up for a party early, you get to prepare stuff, but it's nor very exciting[/QUOTE]
I never saw the warp drive move as fast as hyperdrives. Warp is slow as snail compared to hyperdrive. We were talking about Transwarp vs Hyperspace.
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[QUOTE=Flectarn;1843714]if the star forge was destroyed in 3,500 bby and the battle of Ruusan took place in 1,000 bby. then by your standards they are not part of the same republic
I take it from this you consider the Galactic Republic (pre-empire) and the New Republic (post-empire) to be the same entitiy?
actually from what i've read on wookiepedia, a good chuck of the CIS continued to fight after the republic fell into imperialism.... so CIS+republic doesn't exactly equal Empire[/QUOTE]
Nope, they allied with the Imperials. Techniclly it is the Republic because Sith Wars is Republic vs Sith Empire.
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[QUOTE=SkywalkerJedi;1843736]I never saw the warp drive move as fast as hyperdrives. Warp is slow as snail compared to hyperdrive. We were talking about Transwarp vs Hyperspace.[/QUOTE]
yeah.... moreover how does that in anyway negate what i said
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[QUOTE=SkywalkerJedi;1843738]Nope, they allied with the Imperials. Techniclly it is the Republic because Sith Wars is Republic vs Sith Empire.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Separatist_holdouts[/url]
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[QUOTE=Flectarn;1843760][url]http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Separatist_holdouts[/url][/QUOTE]
CIS= CIS Renmants + CIS Holdouts. The CIS Renmants are allies of the Empire.
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[QUOTE=Sardonic Crisis;1843153]I had contended that the time necessary to weaken each ship to get a kill shot would be ineffectual due to the massive amounts of ships the Dune universe could supply. During the time of Leto II his empire alone was multi-galactic and then afterwards, in the scattering, civilization had spread out exponentially beyond that.
The other point I made was about a feasible weapon that Dune could create using tech that they have had for thousands of years. Making something akin to a transphasic torp by combining stoneburner, holtzman engines and ixian nav device.
No the holtzman engines don't effect the transfer of time, they basically fold space so that the two points connect and the ship's holtzman field acts as the threshold between the two. Think of Event Horizon except the ship doesn't go through a tear or wormhole, the ship itself acts as the wormhole.
As to the SW comment, I have received no contentions beyond attack on my sources from that side of the fence (granted that there were initial arguments that I have refuted which resulted in just attacking my sources instead)... so, Dune stands mightier than SW, at least until I get some better arguments thrown at me:itold:[/QUOTE]
To the first point - I doubt they could "fold jump" anything inside a Federation ship... Federation ships would be protected against "folding" space by their warp fields (which Warps space around the ship) I doubt you could actually make a successful fold inside a warped area of space.
To the point of multiple ships - I don't know... it depends on how long the ships can last once their holtzman shields are penetrated
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[QUOTE=SkywalkerJedi;1843718]More like your brain dead. Star Wars is not losing.[/QUOTE]
Skywalker, once you can bring something NOT overruled by the movies that even begins to THREATEN Star Trek, I'll listen to you again.
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And, funny thing, both Jedi and TW have IGNORED my PROOF that Star Wars neutronium is NOT Star Trek Neutronium...
Clones much? THey BOTH ignore facts that directly contradict what they state, they BOTH hate to admit when they are wrong, and they BOTH try to GROSSLY exagerate what Star Wars weapons are capable of...
I call BS and Clone, someone do an IP Traceroute on these two bozos...
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[QUOTE=Enterprise-D;1843702]Might I also point out that TW's vaunted and totally biased evaluation is incorrect:
1. Star Trek Generations: It is clear that not only can Stellar Cartography detect and differentiate the variables for different galactic bodies, the starship's resource can also calculate sector wide gravity changes dependant on the effects of Soran's energy nexus, and further predict the (changes in) movements of everything in the scan range.
Stellar Cartography is evidence in and of itself that Trek sensors are much better than TW wishes they were. Indeed, this is also a Voyager add-on (even though a Stellar Cartography facility isn't part of Voyager's original specs, Voyager's crew clearly had the tech to build [I]Astrometrics[/I]). However two more examples...
2. Star Trek TNG: Redemption: Cloaked Romulan vessels can be detected via a network of tachyon sensors (I believe they were tachyon). At any rate, Trek tech includes sensors to defeat methods of cloaking.
3. The Enterprise-D becomes capable of firing a tachyon pulse itself by the end of TNG (All Good Things), in order to scan past temporal interference. Since all crew members retained their memories of the temporal event, it is safe to say that a tetryon scanner is useable as canon. Let's look past the fact that tachyon beams could be excessively dangerous if used on temporal anomalies ;)[/QUOTE]
It's not only that. TWSCOTT is misrepresenting the Enterprise D's sensor abilites. Star Ships sensors work like Submarine sensors. They are both passive and active. TNG (The Hunted) showed here that the ship's passive detection could not see the space craft powered down in heavy electromagnetic radiation. Once they realized the trick an active scan revealed the craft. If the trick had worked against passive scans then he could have stayed there forever and the Enterprise wouldn't have found the ship.
In Comparison...The Star Destroyer Avenger immediately lost the Falcon as it came to a stop directly behind the senor dome. Add negative is that it was not even a high radiation enviorment. Another Negative is that they couldn't detect the Falcon at all with an active scan.
Trek has the clear advantage.
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[QUOTE=SkywalkerJedi;1843709]Few minuts means alot in battle.[/QUOTE]
Not if the Federation has the clear offensive advantage.
Federation installations are on magnitude of 3 to 5 times more powerful than the the Galaxy class ship. Which I remind you displayed a firepower up to 60 times that of the standard antifighter turbo laser emplacement.
