Star Wars vs Star Trek

would you like equations?

[url]http://www.livescience.com/technology/10ways_destroyearth-7.html[/url]

[url]http://www.cakes.mcmail.com/StarTrek/Warp%20Core.htm[/url]


[url]http://www.dangermouse.net/gurps/science/reaction.html[/url]

[url]http://www.edwardmuller.com/right17.htm[/url]



there you go,all work has been shown.

by the way,it would take the energy output of our sun 1 week to produce enough raw energy to blow up earth.
i seriously doubt ANY starship is capable of producing that much power that fast especialy in one shot.

as you can see, there is no way thermal transference from a ship mounted gun are blowing up planets
unless the ship was mostly antimatter.

so it MUST be a subatomic reaction,not a thermal transference ,whick requires far less energy that a starship WOULD be capable of producing.

[QUOTE=mars13]by the way,it would take the energy output of our sun 1 week to produce enough raw energy to blow up earth.
i seriously doubt ANY starship is capable of producing that much power that fast especialy in one shot.
[/QUOTE]

I think you might be finally getting it: The Death Star IS "capable of producing that much power that fast in one shot". In fact, it can recharge in a day (the new one even faster).

Also, in your third link I read the following:

"In the original series Star Trek episode Obsession, Captain Kirk tells an ensign that one pound of antimatter can destroy a solar system."

This shows that Star Trek officers (COMMANDING officers, at that) are incapable of estimating anything at all to do with weapon payload.

that was written in the sixties,antimatter was barely a theory.and at the time[inreal life] it WAS thought a pound of antimatter WOULD destroy a solar system.


and it would take 2.5 trillion tons of antimatter to blow up a planet.

thats bigger then the entire deathstar.so obviously its not producing that much power. its not physicly big enough.

so it MUST be a subatomic reaction not a thermal exchange.

this doesnt take away from the fact sw CAN blow up a planet in one shot,they just dont have anywhere near the power claimed .

No, you misunderstood. I want to see the equations you used to detrmine that 90% of the deathstar would have to be a and Antimatter-matter reactor. So far I see a lot of websites. Three by independant men of unknown credentials, and one by a merchandising company that claims no responsibility and offer no accuracy for it's information. I don't see any of YOUR CALCULATIONS. So untill you do them and present them refrain from speaking.

You have added nothing to this conversation. Which is the combat between two fictional universes. Real life physics does not enter the quation ecxcpet in those areas we are tring to understand how something works. or might interact. Since there is no argument that the DeathStar can destroyer planets it can do so. i don't argue that Federation ships can travel at warp speed. I could argue it is impossible, but i behave myself.

As for how it does it I must go with engineers who watch it or George Lucas. Your opinion means so little as to be alughable on this subject. If George Lucas says if vaporize a huge part of the plnet and the expanding gasses make it explode, then that is what happens. There is no argument from science. Or from you.

[url]http://www.livescience.com/technology/10ways_destroyearth-7.html[/url]

sorry,these are all facts verifide by mathmatics.


and my bad,its tonnes,not tons,so its 2.5 trillion tonnes,which is MORE then 2.5 trillion tons.


and both galaxies MUST remain inside theoretical physics.at least for the most part,sure there is some creative license ,but for the most part both galaxies DO remain in the realm of possibility[exept the force and time travel,but fictional mydoclordians allow someone to utilize the force,and time travel COULD be possible,but it would have to be time/space travel,we do know time CAN be altered by speed and gravity].

and if youll notice,i DO agree the death star COULD destroy a planet in one shot.its just not using a thermal exchange to do it.

[QUOTE=mars13]and it would take 2.5 trillion tons of antimatter to blow up a planet.

thats bigger then the entire deathstar.so obviously its not producing that much power. its not physicly big enough.
[/QUOTE]

You idiot, it doesn't use antimatter.

can you reply to ANYTHING without childish insults?


sw uses matter/antimatter reactors right?and it takes 2.5 trillion tonnes of antimatter to produce enough RAW power to vaporize a planet, so a turbo laser would need to harness and compress 2.5 trillion tonnes of antimatter energy to vaporize a planet throu thermal transference,which givin the size of the death star,it is NOT producing.

however, using photons to produce a subatomic reactions within a planets core to vaporize it IS withing the possible power capablities and size restraints of the death star.

SW doesn't use antimatter reactors. They use ion reactors, which work kinda like minature sun. Blasters and lasers (including turbolasers) use Tibanna gas to make plasma, which is formed into a bolt and fired from the barrel.

And the Death Star uses hypermatter. Which from the description might very wel be singularity. The Hawking radition out put of a singularity is on par with Anitmatter-matter annhilation in kilogram for kilogram of matter weight with one small difference. After the reaction the Anitmatter and matter are gone but most of the hypermatter is still there and still producing a similiar amount of power. Thus it is like comparing a bomb and a battery. Eventually the hypermatter does run out, but knowing the Empires enormous resorces and abilities with contragravity- gravity generator they can simply make more.

You arguments are useless Mars 13 becuase neither universe stays with in todays theoretical physics. Star Wars is closer with the exception of Hyperdrives (which gets around the realtavistic barrier by basically jumping to another reality and back) and the Force which could be explained as particularly powerful mind over matter. Star trek violates almost every rule we have about Physics, chemistry, biology, and every other feild of science and reality.

Now if we have to take Star Trek at face value, we should be allowed to take Star Wars at face value. The numbers, firepower, tactical genius, manipulative power, diplomatic skill, and sheer manufacturing are overwhelming on the Empires side. this is without adding the Sith, the Jedi, The Hapans, The Hutts, The Yuzhan Vong, The New Republic, The Old Republic, the Gungans, The Seperatists, The Ssriru, or any other factions the Star Wars Galaxy has. Mind me I am not saying that the Star trek Galaxy won't fight back, and fight well, but they will lose. And they'll lose badly.

I think the Star Trek universe would win because they have better tacticians, huge ass ships, and if all else fails The Borg would appear out of nowhere when both sides were weakened and assimilate everyone! Resistance is futile! :D

then where did i read sw uses antimatter reactors?my bad.

and even if the death star is using hypermatter for power,its still could not produce enough power to vaporize a planet throu thermal transference.that would take the energy output of a sun sized star a week to produce that much raw power.



and we are not taking each galaxy at face value,we are taking them at correct value as long as the supposed correct values are consistant with the on screen action.

the deathstar could not possibly blow up a planet throu thermal tranference,so something else must be happening when it destroys a planet.
a subatomic reaction from a properly phased blast of highly concentrated photons would certainly be able to destroy a planet.and it would be consistant with the size and power capacity of a deathstar and the fact no visible singularity was left after it was destroyed.


or their is the possibility that hypermatter is the remains of a collapsed star right before it becomes so dense it creates a blackhole.it would basicly be an ultra dense microstar
and it would fit the size restraints of the deathstars reactor.


this is all still consistant with the on screen action and the visible technical abilities of the death star. so this is most likely the power source by all observation.

[QUOTE=Lucidfox]better tacticians,[/quote]
Appearing where?
[quote]huge ass ships,[/quote]
Appearing when?

Let's get some FACTS right.

FACT: The Deathstar and Deathstar II are described as using a "hypermatter" reactor. This reactor is never explained, nor the term hyper. The possibility for this being related to hyperspace, perhaps even tapping into power sources which work under "hyperspace physics", is high. At the very least, it is capable of producing the same amount the energy the Earth's sun has produced in -3000 years- in ONE DAY. For the Deathstar II, this rate of power recharge is -a few minutes-.

FACT: The Deathstar I can reduce an Earth-sized planet to trillion of baseball-sized rocks in less than a second. A Deathstar prototype was also capable of doing the same to the moon of Kessel.

But as I said I would be ignoring Mars13, let's get back to the debate with sensible people now.

So, where were we?

[QUOTE=Lucidfox]I think the Star Trek universe would win because they have better tacticians, huge ass ships, and if all else fails The Borg would appear out of nowhere when both sides were weakened and assimilate everyone! Resistance is futile! :D[/QUOTE]

Oh yes, floundering like a pig in mud is a great tactical advantage and we all know that you always line your ships up like a wall. Big ship compared to what? A TIE fighter. As for the BORG, their ships are slow and unresponsive, they adapt well but power contraints still means a single Star Destroyer commanded by a dunce can destroy on in a single slavo.

Star Wars wins it's a question of performance.

Grand Admiral Thrawn was the singularly greatest tactician of all time. He could predict the actions of any enemy down to seconds. Only two highly unlikely events, Darth Vader's daughter coming to the homeworld of his bodyguards, and later interference by the son of Vader and one of the former Emperor's Hands, brought about his demise. And, after all, Thrawn planned for everything, there is still no guarantee he is gone forever. In the meantime...
Now I actually have time to exonerate about the many and varied melee weapons existing in Star Wars...

Lightsaber_Easily the most famous Star Wars weapon, the lightsaber is the chosen weapon of the Jedi, and later the Dark Jedi that referred to themselves as the "Sith" (These are not true Sith). The lightsaber uses a special array of energy source and focusing crystals powered by a standard power pack. A true lightsaber can cut through any material but cortosis, and uses combined light and thermal energy to do damage. A true lightsaber must be created by a Force-user, because the focusing crystal requires special attunement, but at least once a lightsaber was created purely technologically by an engineer. However, this saber was not as powerful as a normal lightsaber, and if it was brought to bear against a another saber, its blade would have shut off. There are special training lightsabers which are basically nonlethal, and dual-phase lightsabers which have adjustable length, up to over double standard length. Lightsabers actually originated as siege weapons, similar to an energy battering ram. And remember, just as Yoda's lightsaber was short to compensate for his size, some large species construct "Great" lightsabers with much larger blades.

Bladed weapons-Many standard bladed weapons are found throughout the galaxy, used for flair by some, and utility by others. Many bladed weapons have metal woven with cortosis to stop a lightsaber blade, though during the time of the Empire, this was unecessary do to the lack of Jedi and only two Sith.
Drolan Plasteel Sword_This is a typical, high tech metal longsword, commonly used as a ceremonial weapon and on low-tech planets. Still very sharp.
Ryyk Blade_This is one of the two traditional weapons of the Wookiees, the other being the bowcaster. The Ryyk Blades come in two main styles, the first being a standard machete style, and the second, often used in apirs, being scythe-like.
Tribal Longspear_This is pretty obviously a normal spear. 2 meter handle (usually). Still, even though primitive, it hurts to get poked by a spear (Trust me, I know).
Xana Exotic Arms MSW-9 Molecular Stiletto_A 30 centimeter blade one molecule thick extending from a small stylus-pen. Quite pointy.
Shyarn_This is a traditional Cerean dueling scimitar. It is a specially crafted weapon, but more importantly it is made of a magnetic substance designed to stick to other metal weapons, creating a special effect in dueling where the duelists must pull their weapons apart and risk disarmament as part of the show.
Arg'garok_This is the Gamorrean battle ax favored by the pig-race. It is specially balanced to allow easy concurrent strikes as it slashes through one enemy into another.
Togorian Scimitar_These specially crafted scimitars are to the Togorians what katanas are to the Japanese in terms of weaponsmithing. It is basically a combination of scimitar appearance and weight with katana sharpness and strength.
Zhaboka_This is a double-bladed fighting pike used by the Iridonian Zabraks. It was originally made of scrap from shipwrecks, but is a source of ancestral pride for the Zabraks of Iridonia. They are often made with extremely diligent care and are worth thousands of credits.
Mistryl Hand Claws_Originally designed for climbing, the Mistryl adapted these retractable blades for combat in close quarters. Combined with Mistryl martial prowess, the claws are as deadly as a lightsaber in the hands of a Jedi.
Wan-Shen_This is a tall polearm with a one-sided blade on top. This weapon is the focus of the Matukai Force adepts, who train in a special form of combat and use it with such finesse as a French rapier.
Knife_Duh. A knife can still be used to stab someone in the back. Or front.

Vibro Weapons-These weapons use an ultrasonic field caused by vibration, which forms around the blade or cudgel and effectively turns it into an physical weapon with energy enhancement.
Merr-Sonn Vibroblade_This is the standard vibroblade, which has a longsword appearance.
Merr-Sonn Vibrodagger_This is a knife sized vibroblade, easily concealed like a knife.
Merr-Sonn Vibrobayonet_This is a vibrodagger which can be attached to a rifle and use the weapon's length to create greater momentum and therefore do more damage.
Merr-Sonn Vibro-Ax_Pretty much what the name says.
Czerka Force Pike_This weapon, besides its pike head, also causes electrical discharge causing a stunning effect.
Czerka Great Force Pike_This force pike is 4 meters in length, used as a true polearm.
Czerka Vibroknucklers_This is a set of vibroblades that fit through the knuckles.
LaserHone Duelist Vibrorapier_This is a vibroblade meant for extra finesse and power. Moreover, it uses microvibrations that make no sound, as opposed to the loud souns produced by other vibroweapons.
Tehk'la Blade_This is a serrated vibrodagger favored by the Nagai that rends flesh as it cuts.
Togorian VibroScimitar_If the Scimitar is to the Togorians what the katana is to the Japanese, and vibroweapons are far more powerful than their normal compatriots, this weapon is exemplified by that.
Double Vibroblade_This is a 1 meter handle with a curved vibroblade at each end, originally designed by the Freeorin.

Other energy weapons-There are many other types of melee weapons that utilize energy in some form.
Shock Whip_This is a whip that uses electricity solely for injury (unlike the neuronic whip, below). It creates a powerful discharge on every hit.
Adumari Blastsword_This appears to be a rounded longsword with a hole at the end. Used by Adumari duelists, this weapon fires an energy bolt similar to blasters. As Wes Janson put it, "It's like a blaster you have to hit someone with."
Gand Shockprod Staff_This is a staff with a "V" end that discharges electricity when something passes between its prods. Besides its shock, it also powerfully stuns.
Geonosian Electro-Staff_This is a staff that discharges electricity on strike.
Rodian Cryogen Whip_This whip is made of flexible metal panels circulating super cooled chemicals that radiate extreme cold, freezing flesh on contact and temporarily stopping nerve impulses by freezing the synapses.
Squib Battering Ram_Though not technically a melee weapon, I figure I should mention this. Designed by the Squib, this weapon uses tractor beams to rip molecules in walls or other fortifications apart on the molecular level.

Bludgeoning weapons_Getting hit by something hard hurts now, and it will in the future. Besides normal clubs and staves, several special weapons exist.
Thogk_Translating to log with a spike in it, this is a favorite of Gammorean warriors of less intelligence that even a normal Gammorean, but is still quite powerful do in part to their great stregth. They usually drive the spike through the log themselves.
Merr-Sonn Snap Baton_This 12 cm cylinder expands to a meter long club which is also sound-dampened.
Garrote-Made of anything from knotted cloth to durasteel wires, garrotes are still popular low tech discreet assassin's weapons.
Sancretti Arms Whip_This is a whip, pretty much.

Stun Weapons_Some weapons are designed solely for stunning, though they still can do damage.
Merr-Sonn Stun Baton_This is a club that emits a stun discharge.
Merr-Sonn Z2_This uprated stun baton has a more powerful (and painful) setting and is commonly used by slavers.
Palandrix Personal Protection Stun Gauntlets_Thes are heavy gauntlets with internal power sources that discharge stun energy.
SoroSuub CS-12 Stun Master_This is a small cylinder, 15 cm by 5cm, that emits an electric discharge similar to a tazer.
TholCorp Neuronic Whip_This whip uses electricity specially modified to fry nerve cells in the body to cause intense pain. This is a slaving weapon, banned on most worlds, but still common in Hutt Space and on the rim.

i just watched episode 3 yesterday,and i havent seen one scrap of evidence to support your claims of powerlevels.
not one scrap of evidence.

also, the sw galaxy is the most disjointed place i have ever seen. every planet has a diffrent dominant species with a diffrent government.ther wasnt even an imperial alliance until AFTER anikin became vader.

90% of the ships i saw were barely capable of making orbit,let alone ACTUALY being capable of space flight.[st doesnt need billions of crappy surface vehicles because transporters are faster and cheaper ]

you know,i saw a 60mm[my estimate]blaster cannon shoot a rock wall,it did about as much damage as a hand phaser on 10.

not one of your ridiculous claims are backed up by the movies.

blasters are far weaker for there size then a phaser,hell it took 5-10 shots just to kill one jedi, a phaser would have disintagrated them in one shot,thats a fact.

and as far as your pathetic claims of 3000years of sun power in minutes,thats just stupid,now your just making up ungodly power numbers hoping poeple will belive you.there is not one scrap of evidence to support your NEW power claims.

and if you remeber the xindi super weapon was capable of destroying a planet in one shot as well, so st CAN produce just as much powerful weaponry as ANYTHING in sw,only the xindi weapon was smaller and just as powerful,so if anything st is has superior power technology.

so,st has just as powerful super weapons,there hand held weapons are FAR superior[and NO ONE can argue that,i have yet to see blasters make even a LARGE hole in someone,let alone actual disintagrate them],transwarp is just as fast as hyperdrive[hyper appears to take hours to fly across a galaxy ,there is always a time period between leaving and arriving].

so your astonishing claims of superior tech are completly unfounded.not to mention sw doesnt even have transport,time travel,or replicaters,all of which are VERY powerful weaponry.

in fact,i havent seen ONE ability in sw that st doesnt have,not one[execpt lightsabers,but they were worthless against multiple close range blasters even in the hands of jedi].
also there are numerous races in st with mental telepathy and telekinesis,so the force is NOT special.

these are ALL verifible facts,this is NOT my opinion,this is a direct comparison to ON SCREEN action.if im wrong in my comparisoon please point out specificly what i observed wrong.

Actually mars13 we are not paying an attetnion to you becuase we have proved it time and time again. You keep proving that you are insane by making the same arguments and not proving them, but expecting us to do so for you. So do us all a favor go read some actual physics, chemistry, and sociology books before you post again.

and back to the intelligent conversation.

For many trekkies, they are going to pull out the Q or the Borg like it some wildcard that is going to turn a bad hand into a winner. This is ludicrous at best and self defeating at worst.

The Q did not help the Federation against the Borg or the Dominion or the So'Na for that matter. Why would the Empire be any different?

The Borg still have power limits they can adjust their shielding to try to reduce the firepower. But a Star Destroyer has too much firepower for a Borg vessel to absorb for any length of time.

one xwing can defeat a stardestroyer,sothey are not that tough.

and it only took one shot.

true or false?

False.

If it did happen, it would be in one of the books, under special circumstances, such as being within the shield shooting something like the bridge while they were doing some rediculous manuever which resulted in them crashing.

Star Destroyers are TOUGH. Battles between them and MonCal can take hours despite wepons that strike like multigigatonatomic blasts. Assuming of course that neither side uses their Ion Cannons.