By star system busting, I guess I should have been more specific and said: star busting. (Because that does tend to solve the problem of mass planet busting in a stroke.)
And that is the domain of the trilithium torpedo.
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By star system busting, I guess I should have been more specific and said: star busting. (Because that does tend to solve the problem of mass planet busting in a stroke.)
And that is the domain of the trilithium torpedo.
Of course,while I do not know exactly what this trilithium torpedo is, I assume it has a launcher? The sun crusher, which was indestructible, could fly straight through it, wiping it out. Then of course, the most powerful superweapon, the Galaxy Gun, was capable of destroying entire star systems as well, and each of its missiles was armed as a light capital ship for defense. Combine this with the power of all three death stars, Tarkin-station, Darksaber, the Eclipse and Sovereign-class Star Destroyers, Imperial super viruses and neutron bombing, as well as the monstrous forces of the Yuuzhan-Vong, and Star Trek tech is outnumbered and slightly outmatched. And in the field of espionage, between the Bothan Spynet, Talon Karrde's organization, the Imperial Security Bureau, the various shapeshifting races, and the mighty powers of the Force, the award goes to Star Wars.
The trilithium torpedo in Generations was the same size as a standard photon torpedo. (It used the same casing as a photon torpedo, only the internal mechanisms were changed.) What this means is that any vessel can deploy such weapons, ideally by launching them from probe/torpedo launchers.
As I said, while ST has no hope of winning a conventional war with SW, an all out conflict will result in MAD.
Arquibus:
[QUOTE]and Star Trek tech is outnumbered and slightly outmatched. And in the field of espionage, between the Bothan Spynet, Talon Karrde's organization, the Imperial Security Bureau, the various shapeshifting races, and the mighty powers of the Force, the award goes to Star Wars. [/QUOTE]
Slightly? No. Greatly. In terms of pure population, SW is significantly higher. Half of all Stars in the SW galaxy are populated by atleast one person, many with billions or tens of billions, some others with multiple populated worlds in the same solar system. ST has only a few thousand star systems.
kv1at3485:
[QUOTE]The trilithium torpedo in Generations was the same size as a standard photon torpedo. (It used the same casing as a photon torpedo, only the internal mechanisms were changed.) What this means is that any vessel can deploy such weapons, ideally by launching them from probe/torpedo launchers.[/QUOTE]
Feasiably, the quantum resonance torpedos of the Suncrusher could similarly be fired from any regular torpedo launcher in SW.
[QUOTE]As I said, while ST has no hope of winning a conventional war with SW, an all out conflict will result in MAD. [/QUOTE]
The technological supremacy of Star Wars would allow the destruction of ST, even whilst potentially taking heavy damage from trilithium torpedos and other such things. Moreover, the numercial advantage is so high, that to destroy SW would take so much more than ST, thus MAD becomes infeasible.
[QUOTE=Prince_James]
ST has only a few thousand star systems.
[/quote]
If one was comparing simply the UFP to SW, what you say would be true. However, the comparison is between ST and SW.
[quote]Feasiably, the quantum resonance torpedos of the Suncrusher could similarly be fired from any regular torpedo launcher in SW.[/quote]
Quite so.
[quote]The technological supremacy of Star Wars would allow the destruction of ST, even whilst potentially taking heavy damage from trilithium torpedos and other such things. Moreover, the numercial advantage is so high, that to destroy SW would take so much more than ST, thus MAD becomes infeasible.[/QUOTE]
The ability for SW to wipe out ST would not occur fast enough to prevent MAD. There are sufficient ships of sufficient endurance in ST to mount a counterstrike. They will take longer to reach their targets, but once there there will be nothing to stop them from busting stars.
The funny thing is that neither side has the ability to intercept the other during FTL transit. Only when both are sublight can SW hope to take out a ST ship. (And even then, the range must be ludicrously short since SW weapons are so slow.)
There's nothing SW has that can intercept a ST ship entering a system at warp, blasting the star at warp, and getting away at warp.
Conversely, ST has nothing capable of stopping any SW ship showing up in one of their systems and doing the same thing. (The SW ships will slow to sublight before killing the star, but except for the very, very, few uber-ST nations, the SW ships will have a free hand in their pursuits.)
With delivery systems essentially invulnerable to damage and interception, you get MAD.
first off lets talk about who has a track record for victorys over a new enemy.
ST clearly has the advantage here,how many countless battles with every kind of mental,energy,or conventional weapon has the enterprise defeated with barely a few ensigns going down?
now the empire was deafeted by an insetious brother/sister,a degenerate gambler,a wookie ,a few ewoks,and some punk kid .
STs winning track record to figure out and defeat their enemy regardless of how
big strong or fast they are would be the desisive factor.
as far as i can tell,storm troopers completely lack the ability to out manuaver fuzzy midget bears,let alone a highly trained federation assault team.
the enterprise has taken out countless advisaries regardless of size or strength,they exploit even the tiniest weakness to bring down an enemy.
SW cant track or scan any federation ship,let alone claoked clingon and romulon ships.this is just another major weakness for SW.
and the enterprise is fully capable of destroying planets,they almost accidently blew on up trying to save it,a few well placed phaser shots to a few fault lines and the planet tears it self apart.
and the force? like ST has never seen metal powers before,hell they would probably scan a few dead jedi and realize all their powers are from a disease[mydoclordia],and just synthesyze an antidote that would kill all mydoclordia rendering the force useless.
and besides,SW could have supercharged nitrous turbo lazers and they wouls still not be able to do anything to a federation ship.
no matter how turbo they are ,they are still LAZERS,and the federation has been imune to lazers for centuries.
and do you real think the death star could win against the dugong?
a giant planet eating monster?
SW would be out classed at best.
dont kid your self,the enterprise is undeafeted, and the death star cant handle a few rebels and ewoks.
Trek combat is remarkably stupid. Guns, even rifles, don't appear to have sights, yet characters miss with them all the time. Nobody uses any kind of armor. Grenades are utterly absent. Vehicles are mostly absent, with the exception of shuttlecraft, which are also rarely used to any tactical advantage in ground combat. Supposedly highly-trained warriors almost never make any attempt to use combat tactics, beyond 'shoot at that guy' or 'hide behind the rock and shoot at that guy'. A few episodes introduce a tactic when it suits the plot, but the characters quickly forget about that later on.
yeah,those storm trooper tactics of ''miss the target and get shot'' work much better.
phaser weapons made sheilds obsolete for infintry. the power packs would be to massive and dangerous to carry ,and they would not be very effective.
and i havent seen any storm troopers armour stop a blast from anything,at best it makes sneaking into imperial ships easier because they all look alike.
all jedi powers are just a bacteria infection,all storm troopers fight exactly the same.
antibiotics would make the jedis just ordinary people,and if you can kill one storm trooper you can kill ANY storm trooper.
EWOKS CAN KILL STORM TROOPERS!!!!!!they are weak at best.
Riker can kick a klingons ass.
no klingon would ever be killed by an ewok.
Sw has absolutly no chance agianst the federation,let alone the thousands of more powerful beings in the federation galaxy.
[quote]EWOKS CAN KILL STORM TROOPERS!!!!!!they are weak at best.[/quote]
That actually suggests Ewoks are incredibly lethal, not that Storm Troopers are weak. Ewoks are acutally superbeasts. They may appear cute and furry, but that's simply due to your anthropomorhpizing them
no they look like midget stick holding bears to me.
either way,all it took to destroy the empire was sticks and rocks,ewoks,insestuos brother/sister,degenerate gamblers,effeminant robots,and a wookie.
a bb gun should be enough to take out ewoks,but somehow the storm trooper fucked that up as well.maybe they were :m:
[quote]a bb gun should be enough to take out ewoks[/quote]
Well then, why didn't they use a bb gun? Clearly you underestimate ewoks.
no i saw the movie. did you?
all they had were sticks and rocks,and the didnt apear any stronger then a typical human midget.
and even if they were slightly stronger then a storm trooper,the ewoks still didnt have guns or armour or vehicles,the strom trooper seem to be useless in combat.
i think they killed a handfull of ewoks,but any retard with a bb gun could have dont the same.
like the man said, ''all they know is marching and white uniforms''.
hand to hand combat,weapons training,and stratagy are required basic courses of study for star fleet.
ensigns vs ewoks? i doubt the ewoks could kill more then one,maybe two.
They appeared incredibly lethal to me. Armed with only sticks and rocks, possessing no armor or vehicles, they wiped out the Empire's best taking few casualties.
Obviously they are ridiculously powerful and skilled. How else would they have been able to take out thousands of years of human evolution and technology?
You are a fool to believe Stormtroopers to be weak. You have obviously never seen the Imeperial 501st in action. The tactical combat displayed by their squad is far superior to ST tactics, as many of their plans were based on Thrawn's tactical genius. And, being that this is SW versus ST, let's see this Federation Infantry against the merciless Yuuzhan Vong.
i bet storm troopers would lose to tribbles.
sw is pathetic at best,lazers and bacteria,yeah,the federation is scared.
fire photon torpedoes at that exsuahst vent.
'Ere ye heard of Shields? SW's capital ship shields can withstand more than they can dish out, and a Star Destroyer has enough power to turn a planet into molten slag.
Trek ships don't got ship worth fuck. Feddy ship's best chance would be to ram an ISD, but that still wouldn't crack the shielding. Federation = screwed.
''they are still using lazers '''.
lazers,regardless of turbos,do absolutly nothing to federation sheilds.
lazers vs federation sheilds = :( lazers
kv1at3485:
[QUOTE]If one was comparing simply the UFP to SW, what you say would be true. However, the comparison is between ST and SW.[/QUOTE]
I think only the Borg can be said to have more than a few thousand systems and even then, they occupy only a major force in one quadrant of the galaxy. Compare this to the SW galaxy which, as noted, has billions of worlds, and thousands of quadtrillions sentient inhabitants of tens of thousands of different species.
[QUOTE]The ability for SW to wipe out ST would not occur fast enough to prevent MAD. There are sufficient ships of sufficient endurance in ST to mount a counterstrike. They will take longer to reach their targets, but once there there will be nothing to stop them from busting stars.[/QUOTE]
A capital ship in ST would face comparable or greater fire power from a Lamba Class Shuttle or Slave-1, and considering ST ships remain in real space, they could be found en route, specifically as it takes hundreds of years for them to transverse distances that can be covered in a day by SW.
[QUOTE]The funny thing is that neither side has the ability to intercept the other during FTL transit. Only when both are sublight can SW hope to take out a ST ship. (And even then, the range must be ludicrously short since SW weapons are so slow.)[/QUOTE]
Warp engines do allow for greater real-space manuevering, but one could feasiably imagine leading shots and other measures (artificial gravity wells and shields) which can deal with that. Not to mention that they take so long to get anywhere, it is feasiable the crew would -die- before reaching their target.
mars13:
[QUOTE]ST clearly has the advantage here,how many countless battles with every kind of mental,energy,or conventional weapon has the enterprise defeated with barely a few ensigns going down?[/QUOTE]
Nearly 75,000 years less advanced than STar Wars weapons.
[QUOTE]now the empire was deafeted by an insetious brother/sister,a degenerate gambler,a wookie ,a few ewoks,and some punk kid .[/QUOTE]
And billions of rebels.
[QUOTE]STs winning track record to figure out and defeat their enemy regardless of how
big strong or fast they are would be the desisive factor.[/QUOTE]
There are "unwinnable battles". Ontop of this, this is the biggest Trekkie fallacy ever. Just because Star Trek has done it before, does -not- mean they can do it again, specifically as Star Wars is orders of magnitude above anything in ST.
[QUOTE]as far as i can tell,storm troopers completely lack the ability to out manuaver fuzzy midget bears,let alone a highly trained federation assault team.[/QUOTE]
"Highly trained FEderation assault team"? Please name -one-? They send command-officers on missions with no armour, no indirect fire weapons, no hand-to-hand weapons, and not too powerful phaser rifles, facing inept enemies that seemingly do the same. Storm Troopers are highly trained killing machines with high-grade armour, plenty of indirect weapons, a significant army to back them up, et cetera.
[QUOTE]the enterprise has taken out countless advisaries regardless of size or strength,they exploit even the tiniest weakness to bring down an enemy.[/QUOTE]
"Countless enemies"? And this is why the Fed is losing against the Borg? Nearly got destroyed by the Dominion? Barely handled the Cardassians and Klingons (and didn't even)?
[QUOTE]SW cant track or scan any federation ship,let alone claoked clingon and romulon ships.this is just another major weakness for SW.[/QUOTE]
Can't track or scan any Federation ship? SW has remarkably great sensors. Cloaked Klingon and Romulan leave tachyon disturbances, don't they?
[QUOTE]and the enterprise is fully capable of destroying planets,they almost accidently blew on up trying to save it,a few well placed phaser shots to a few fault lines and the planet tears it self apart.[/QUOTE]
Easily preventable by pitiful shields, or you know, just blowing the enterprise up.
[QUOTE]and the force? like ST has never seen metal powers before,hell they would probably scan a few dead jedi and realize all their powers are from a disease[mydoclordia],and just synthesyze an antidote that would kill all mydoclordia rendering the force useless.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and they'd be able to deliever this to the entire population of SW? When you know, it'd take them hundreds of years to even get to the Core systems from the edge of the galaxy? Or you know, even -find- a dead Jedi? Jedi don't die very easily, not to mention the smart ones would be doing things like Battle Meditation deep within ships. Ontop of that, midichlorians are not a disease. They are inherent parts of the cell, likely related to the midochondria which we in real life have.
[QUOTE]and besides,SW could have supercharged nitrous turbo lazers and they wouls still not be able to do anything to a federation ship.
no matter how turbo they are ,they are still LAZERS,and the federation has been imune to lazers for centuries.[/QUOTE]
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Oh please. Give me a -break- man. First off, turbolasers are obviously not an accurate term to call the weaponary of SW, as they clearly aren't lasers, secondly, even if they -were-, do you really think that ST would be immune to lasers billions of times more powerful than the ones they face in ST? Come on.
[QUOTE]and do you real think the death star could win against the dugong?
a giant planet eating monster?[/QUOTE]
Easily. It's called "Grand Moff Tarkin, we just destroyed the creature with a single blast from the superlaser."
[QUOTE]SW would be out classed at best.
dont kid your self,the enterprise is undeafeted, and the death star cant handle a few rebels and ewoks. [/QUOTE]
Thanks for making me laugh heartily.
[QUOTE]phaser weapons made sheilds obsolete for infintry. the power packs would be to massive and dangerous to carry ,and they would not be very effective.[/QUOTE]
LMAO. Shields "obsolete for infinity"? Yeah, sure. That is why Borg shields are immune to phaser blasts.
[QUOTE]and i havent seen any storm troopers armour stop a blast from anything,at best it makes sneaking into imperial ships easier because they all look alike.[/QUOTE]
Storm Trooper armour is most likely meant for long-range protection, just as modern armour today would not be able to withstand a point-blank rifle blast.
[QUOTE]all jedi powers are just a bacteria infection,all storm troopers fight exactly the same.[/QUOTE]
Midichlorians aren't bacterial.
[QUOTE]antibiotics would make the jedis just ordinary people,and if you can kill one storm trooper you can kill ANY storm trooper.[/QUOTE]
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
[QUOTE]no klingon would ever be killed by an ewok.[/QUOTE]
Sure he would, if caught in booby traps.
[QUOTE=Prince_James]
I think only the Borg can be said to have more than a few thousand systems and even then, they occupy only a major force in one quadrant of the galaxy. Compare this to the SW galaxy which, as noted, has billions of worlds, and thousands of quadtrillions sentient inhabitants of tens of thousands of different species.[/quote]
And the ST galaxy cannot have thousands of political units with thousands of worlds each?
That in ST one encounters warp capable 'aliens of the week' all of the time within short distances of each other would imply a significant density of occupation, to put it lightly.
[quote]A capital ship in ST would face comparable or greater fire power from a Lamba Class Shuttle or Slave-1, and considering ST ships remain in real space, they could be found en route, specifically as it takes hundreds of years for them to transverse distances that can be covered in a day by SW.[/quote]
It won't matter if they can be detected if they cannot be intercepted. Firepower is useless unless it can be brought to bare.
[quote]Warp engines do allow for greater real-space manuevering, but one could feasiably imagine leading shots and other measures (artificial gravity wells and shields) which can deal with that.[/quote]
I dispute that 'feasibility'. To be able to lead a shot against a ship in FTL transit using SW weapons a SW ship would literally have to be right in front of a ship in FTL transit.
(I cannot help but remember the SW movies where you have predictably moving capships blasting each other from a single-digit kilometre range with weapons that can be tracked quite easily by the naked eye.)
A ship at warp may not be able to make any radical manoeuvers, but it will be able to make small deviations in course and speed to throw off fire from a sublight source.
[quote]Not to mention that they take so long to get anywhere, it is feasiable the crew would -die- before reaching their target.[/quote]
I thought about that. There are multiple instances of crews or groups of people going into hibernation/cryosleep/stasis for periods of time ranging from a few weeks, a few years, a few centuries, to a near millenia (at least from the cases I remember.)
Using these techniques, a crew could undertake a mission spanning many centuries. The technology is available to support a long term strategy.
[QUOTE=mars13]''they are still using lazers '''.
lazers,regardless of turbos,do absolutly nothing to federation sheilds.
lazers vs federation sheilds = :( lazers[/QUOTE]
It's an 's', you fucking dope, not a 'z'. LASER is an acronym, standing for:
Light
Amplification by
[b]S[/b]timiulated
Emission of
Radiation
There is no 'z' in 'laser'.
Fuck!
Now, on to the point. Trek shields aren't worth a fucking damn, especially compared to the Imperial's weaponry: Ion cannons, proton torpedoes, concussion missiles, turbolasers, and (in the case of DS's) Superlasers.
Moreover, all of the factions in Trek added together do not have the industrial strength to produce enough ships to fend off an Imperial invasion. The Imperial Navy maintains at least 25,000 star destroyers alone, plus hundreds of thousands of other vessels, most of which are still very powerful, plus about a dozen Super Stardestroyers. Remember, the Empire was never actually fully 'mobilized' for a war during the Rebellion. The rebels only carried out small blows here and there, punctuated by major smacks culminating in the destruction of the First DS and the Second DS and Palpatine's death. Pirates were probably a bigger direct threat, actually.
When the Imperial shipyards get a-rollin', there will be somewhere around 100 SSDs, 50,000 star destroyers, about a million other vessels, and trillions upon trillions of troops invading and wreaking painful havok upon not only the Federation, but every other alien race and species in the Trekverse.
Of course, they probably won't even need more than a couple SSDs and a few dozen ISDs to do the job, but remember: overkill does not exist in the Imperial Military.