Star Wars vs Star Trek

Dru DP:

What, what, what? You claim Star Trek has better tech than Star Wars? I strongly recommend you go to [url]www.stardestroyer.net[/url] forthwith.

Also, why do you think the Bene Gesserit could learn a lightsabre quickly?

[QUOTE=Dru DP]
The only characters in Star Trek who would be able to last longer than 5 seconds against either the Jedi or the Bene Gesseritt would be Species 8472, and the Founders, and possibly the Hirogen. All three of them would probably get whiped out pretty fast though.

[/QUOTE]

There is no way of knowing what effect a lightsaber can have on a shapeshifter since there are countless forms that they could take that are a lot more effective than humanoid. They can turn into a mist that can envelop a person, and they can turn into fire, neither of which a lightsabre would be much good against.

Sovereign01:

As demonstrated in various episodes of Star Trek DS9, Changelings are capable of being killed with repeated attacks with a phaser. A lightsabre could well ignite the protoplasmic structure, regardless of what form they mimic, if it has a point where it can no longer withstand the heat of the blade. We are talking about something that can cut through almost anything but mandalorian iron in barely any time at all.

Only cortosis is effectively immune to lightsaber as far as materials go, and then there are lifeforms like orbalisks...Regardless, something systematic needs to be done with this thread or else the chaos will never reveal an answer.

Changelings can be harmed by blasts of directed energy, such as when Odo wrestles an intruder onto the Defiant's warp core, but a lightsaber is nothing like a phaser or disruptor, and it takes a lot of energy to do do. When a changeling is harmed it reverts to its liquid state and is more vulnerable to attack. It is not inconceivable for a Founder to also replicate a lightsaber as part of its body, too. A changeling takes on the properties of whatever form it assumes, and could hide on a surface and execute a deadly surprise attack.

I wonder what would happen if you activated a lightsaber underwater?

Sovereign01:

I am unsure whether a changeling could reach the energy requirements of the lightsabre blade, nor would he necessarily have an understanding of how to replicate the the mechanics, but that -would- be interesting, yes.

But as to a lightsabre under water, what happens is that the lightsabre blade shoots out and it super-heats the water immediatly around it. It drains the battery, due to the thickness of the medium, much more than air.

Or, it just evaporates the water, no matter how much of it there is. Use the force, my fellow brethren.

[QUOTE=Sovereign01]I wonder what would happen if you activated a lightsaber underwater?[/QUOTE]

According to the book "The Cestus Deception", nothing special. It's no different than activating it in air.

[QUOTE=Prince_James]Dru DP:

What, what, what? You claim Star Trek has better tech than Star Wars? I strongly recommend you go to [url]www.stardestroyer.net[/url] forthwith.

Also, why do you think the Bene Gesserit could learn a lightsabre quickly?[/QUOTE]

Surprise, surprise...on a Star Wars website, I found many people who think Star Wars tech is better. I scanned posts back to 7 months ago and couldn't find any reason [i]why[/i] people thought star wars tech is better. Is there any way to really tell? I'm going to bed.

Oh yeah, Bene Gesserit's are trained in combat and weapons, and a lightsaber is essentially the same thing as a sword, just a lot more delicate.

I didn't intend for this post to be so long but I got carried away.

[QUOTE=Dru DP]
Oh yeah, Bene Gesserit's are trained in combat and weapons, and a lightsaber is essentially the same thing as a sword, just a lot more delicate.[/QUOTE]

There are several posts that state the difference between a lightsaber and a sword, such as the LS blade being 'massless', and thus the centre of gravity being in the hilt. This makes it very different to handle. The LS would be very light as a result and much more controllable as well as being far less tiring because of this. Combined with use of the force, it's easy to see how Jedi/Sith can be so fast. I'm not sure 'delicate' is quite the right word to use since the only thing that has been seen to stop an LS blade is another one. The mechanics may or may not be easy to damage when the LS is inactive.

I can't recall a battery being mentioned with regard to a lightsaber or whether it is entirely generated by the force... wait, didn't Han Solo use Luke's lightsaber when he found him in the blizzard? Does anyone know how long a power cell for a lightsaber lasts?

There was a mention that Empire tech advanced so quickly since the first Death Star took a day to charge up between shots but the second one took only a few minutes. Isn't it more likely that it didn't need to be fired anywhere near full power to take out a rebel capital ship and so be able to charge much faster.

I too don't see how Wars tech is so superior, I saw a discussion on stardestroyer.net about what someone would do when refitting Star Trek ships with SW tech, and loads of people would rip out the weapons and warp core and use SW weapons, like Proton torps instead of Photon. What do they have against Photons? Someone should start a similar thread here about combining ships and tech.

Personally, I'd take a Sovereign (no 'neck', less vulnerable), Nemesis-spec (extra phasers and torps), give it the 6-warp nacelles like the Prometheus along with the ablative armour as well as the deployable armour and Transphasic torpedoes (1 shot takes out a Borg cube, fyi) weapons from 'Endgame' as well as the big phaser cannnon the Ent-D had in 'All good things' that could cut through a Klingon Negh'var ship in addition to upgrading all the existing phasers. This should make sure it can't be easily defeated as it was in Nemesis, and finally a Cloaking device like the one the Scimitar had that meant it could still use shields and weapons under cloak. Oh, and that all the tubes could fire Quantum Torpedoes, not just one and can carry a few Tricobalt weapons to boot and maybe a Trilithium probe too. I'd also have a Dauntless-style quantum slipstream drive (that works properly) or a Borg-style transwarp drive, whichever is faster.

Would I use any Star Wars stuff? I'd add SW missile racks that work like the ones from Starfleet Command games (fire in any direction and use no power), as well as SC AMD's that also work against fighters. I'd add turrets to fill any gaps in phaser coverage. It there was any room, I'd also have the Ion cannon that could destroy a Star Destroyer with one volley.

Dru DP:

[QUOTE]Surprise, surprise...on a Star Wars website, I found many people who think Star Wars tech is better. I scanned posts back to 7 months ago and couldn't find any reason why people thought star wars tech is better. Is there any way to really tell? I'm going to bed.[/QUOTE]

Dru, read the essays, science, and other areas of Stardestroyer.com's main page and also check out the Turbolaser commentaries. These provide compelling evidence for Star Wars' massive superiority based on observation of the movies, secondary sources, and other such things.

[QUOTE]Oh yeah, Bene Gesserit's are trained in combat and weapons, and a lightsaber is essentially the same thing as a sword, just a lot more delicate. [/QUOTE]

ACtually, the lightsabre is really more a hybrid of a club and a sword, with the omnidrectional nature of the club, but the cutting power and precision of a sword. It's also massless, which is utterly different than bladed weapons, so I do not believe believe the BG would have any significant cross-training abilities to start off with.

Sovereign01:

[QUOTE]I can't recall a battery being mentioned with regard to a lightsaber or whether it is entirely generated by the force... wait, didn't Han Solo use Luke's lightsaber when he found him in the blizzard? Does anyone know how long a power cell for a lightsaber lasts?[/QUOTE]

A power-cell for a lightsabre, under normal conditions, lasts several years. But yes, Han Solo managed to turn on the blade and control it enough to drag it across the stomach of the beast, but that is about all.

[QUOTE]There was a mention that Empire tech advanced so quickly since the first Death Star took a day to charge up between shots but the second one took only a few minutes. Isn't it more likely that it didn't need to be fired anywhere near full power to take out a rebel capital ship and so be able to charge much faster.[/QUOTE]

If I recall correctly, the Emperor speaks of the Turbolaser being able to fire at at full power in a matter of minutes, not simply just at capital-ship destroying power.

[QUOTE]I too don't see how Wars tech is so superior, I saw a discussion on stardestroyer.net about what someone would do when refitting Star Trek ships with SW tech, and loads of people would rip out the weapons and warp core and use SW weapons, like Proton torps instead of Photon. What do they have against Photons? Someone should start a similar thread here about combining ships and tech.[/QUOTE]

Read Michael Wong's essays.

[QUOTE]Personally, I'd take a Sovereign (no 'neck', less vulnerable), Nemesis-spec (extra phasers and torps), give it the 6-warp nacelles like the Prometheus along with the ablative armour as well as the deployable armour and Transphasic torpedoes (1 shot takes out a Borg cube, fyi) weapons from 'Endgame' as well as the big phaser cannnon the Ent-D had in 'All good things' that could cut through a Klingon Negh'var ship in addition to upgrading all the existing phasers. This should make sure it can't be easily defeated as it was in Nemesis, and finally a Cloaking device like the one the Scimitar had that meant it could still use shields and weapons under cloak. Oh, and that all the tubes could fire Quantum Torpedoes, not just one and can carry a few Tricobalt weapons to boot and maybe a Trilithium probe too. I'd also have a Dauntless-style quantum slipstream drive (that works properly) or a Borg-style transwarp drive, whichever is faster.[/QUOTE]

Give me the Sun-Crusher.

[QUOTE]Would I use any Star Wars stuff? I'd add SW missile racks that work like the ones from Starfleet Command games (fire in any direction and use no power), as well as SC AMD's that also work against fighters. I'd add turrets to fill any gaps in phaser coverage. It there was any room, I'd also have the Ion cannon that could destroy a Star Destroyer with one volley. [/QUOTE]

Those ion-cannons were massive planetary installments. Not easy to put on such a small Star Trek vessel.

Is the Sun Crusher canon? I hadn't heard of it until reading about it on this forum. Does it have the same effect as the Trilithium probe in ST: Generations, whereby all nuclear fusion in the star breaks down and generates a shockwave powerful enough to destroy all the planets in the system? In Stargate, a star was destroyed by sending a 'gate into it that was dialed to a black hole region so that enough mass was sucked in to cause the star to go nova. It's useful to be able to detonate stars, hence the trilithium probes, but I'd take my ship since destroying stars is a small part of its capability. Means it can fight an enemy even when no convenient stars are nearby.
I thought as much about the ion cannon, hence the 'if there was any room' disclaimer. While it's not massive, the Enterprise-E is hardly small. If it was possible, I'd even fit the ship with 8472's planet-killing weapon (called the 'bio pulse conduit' in ST: Armada 2), but that's just silly.

Sovereign01:

The Sun Crusher is a vessel the size of a fighter, which has virtually indestructible phase-quantum armour and quantum-resonance torpedos that can turn basically any star into a super nova. The quantum-resonance torpedos are also capable of causing catastrophic damage to non-star targets, although the damage is far more limited, although the a prototype Deathstar had huge holes ripped in it from two shots from the torpedos, so one torpedo is very likely to destroy a Star Destroyer or something similar.

Anyway, yes, the Enterprise is actually ludicrously small compared to a Star Destroyer. The Enterprise, for instance, only has a crew of 1,400, whilst a Star Destroyer has one of nearly 40,000.

You didn't say whether or not the Sun Crusher was canon, but it does sound impressive nonetheless. The effect of it's torpedoes that could take out a star destroyer sound exactly like the transphasic torpedoes from Endgame in terms of ship-killing ability. I got hold of a size comparison of scifi ships (can't recall where I got it) and it shows the EntE being about half the size of a star destroyer, and a Borg Cube being twice the size.

Sovereign01:

Sorry. The Suncrusher is canon though, yes. It features prominently in the "New Jedi Order" trilogy written by Kevin J. Anderson. Unless Lucas completely retcons the books, it's canonical.

You also have to realize that length is not the only determination of size. Obviously the Enterprise-E is not as massive as a Star Destroyer, or the Fd is completely incapable of making a space-effective starship, as it has a -maximum- capacity of 15,000 in -emergencies-. Super Star Destroyers and Eclipse Class Star Destroyers are immensely huge, though.

Does anyone see that a war like this would be much deeper than tossing ships with maximum shields and weapons at each other? I think everyone is forgetting espionage and locating enemy planets.

Go [URL=http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWvolumetrics.html]here[/URL] to see just how much smaller (in terms of volume) Star Trek ships are in terms of Star Wars ships. The rest of the site is mostly bogus, but this page specifically is sufficiently informative to be taken seriously.

An interesting note is that the Borg cube has 2.1 times more volume than an Executor-class Star Destroyer, one of the few times a ST ships actually has more volume than a SW ship. A Sovereign-class ship has 22-times less volume than (I think the site assumes) an Imperator-class Star Destroyer, or [i]5205-times[/i] less volume than an Executor.

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Ultimately, it does come down to who has the bigger guns and faster drive. To defeat the enemy, you will eventually have to being their fleet to battle, or at the very least, attack objects of strategic importance.

In which case, SW clinches it. It's not that ST doesn't have equivilent systems. There are instances of crazy-over-the-top stuff in ST. THe problem is that the frequency of crazy-over-the-top stuff in ST is relatively low compared to that of SW.

One can use the ST's Species 8472 to perhaps give SW a run for its money, but then you have to realize that 8472 is a rather small part of ST, while in SW the entire Empire starts out at 8472+ level.

Of course, if you start getting into the realm of superweapons, the playing field (surprisingly enough) levels out, since both have the capability to blow entire star systems with ease. The irony is that in such an all out comflict, the star fleets will survive (more or less) but the star nations which they belong to will not.

Of course SW has the larger firepower, speed, etc. over ST...though trek might have wars beat on the weird and random-ass beings that exist in it (Q).
You know this, and I know this, because we're both SBer (or were).

PS- I was banned from SB for just making fun of religion. Can you possibly check what the hell happened, because I'm not back on yet. I'm not permabanned, 'cause I can still look around the site, but I can post or do shit. I'm supposing that you're still connected to them, Kv1at?

Hapsburg:

I think we can safely assume that the Continuum would interfere with Q's machinations if he actually started butting his nose into a SW v. ST war. THey didn't take kindly to him causing that star empire to fall in the Milky Way several hundreds of thousands of years before TNG.

kv1at3485:

I would have to disagree that ST has as many planet-killing or star-system destroying weapons. Whilst there is no evidence to such an Enterprise-like ship could destroy a single planet on its own, specifically if that planet had a military presence with anti-space weaponary, whilst a single Imperial Star Destroyer represents a planet-wide threat. In three hours, one ISD can reduce a terrestial world to molten slag, litterally melting the crust.