Star Wars vs Star Trek

I'm not arguing the metaphysical. I am arguing the physical. When a body looses weight without:

A change in mass
A change in volume
A change in apparent gravity
A change in density

Something else is at work... and science fails.

Please excuse a FNG if this concept has been brought up already -- this thread is massive and I've only had a chance to read a tenth or so of it.
I think I first ran into this idea at rec.arts.startrek.tech, and at the time it was phrased as a Star Destroyer vs a Galaxy-class Star Fleet ship.
:eek:
In that scenario I think the Galaxy-class suffers the same fate as Princess Leah's diplomatic corvette in the opening scenes of [I]A New Hope[/I] -- swallowed up by that huge docking bay on the ventral side of the Star Destroyer and boarded by Imperial storm troopers.
:(
However susposse we throw a squadron of four Galaxy-class cruisers, optimized for combat instead of exploration, against a single Star Destroyer. Now I think it becomes can the Federation Commander keep out of the way of those huge ion cannons onboard the Star Destroyer, while simeltaniously wearing down the Star Destroyer's defenses. Now I think it's a case of Star Fleet Marines boarding a broken and defeated Star Destroyer, after several days of hit and run attacks.
:)

[QUOTE=halo07guy;1502362]Why did I get redirected to a Belgian Dress Site?

.[/QUOTE]

Hey halo it isn't just a dress site. Look at the events and you'll notice all the neat stuff we create.
Lucas Arts themself refur to us as "The Big Prop guys"

[QUOTE=Saquist;1502923]Negative. the destruction of the Executor was an off camera event. All that was seen on camera was the collision of two objects. The confirmation of the ships destruction was the destruction of the Death Star itself.[/QUOTE]

Evry1 is saying that the explosion of the SSD and the DS2 aren't big enough for the power the have. So that's why mention it

[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1517678]Werent the Yuuzhan Vong exiles?
Then they would go searching in groups.
But the Empire would have to FIRST launch a probe.
Let it come back.
Then launch an expedition that would most likely take a few generations to reach the other side.
Then, supply lines would be a problem. No replicators, right?
Hell. People on Tatooine have to FARM for water. In ST, supply lines are not needed.
No food? replicate more!
no energy? Unlikely. Federation ships can go years without a resupply.[/QUOTE]

I think you rely to much on these replicators my dear friend. To create someting you need matter. Even if you use waste products of the people on board you still need supplies. Because human waste is still less than they consume.

[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1518871]Something I never understood: The night shift.
I mean... Voyager time is night... but its the enemy's night too?
Nothing ever happens on the night shift.
Can someone explain it to me?[/QUOTE]

How can there be a nightshift when your exploring space. My best guess is that you work for a set of hours have a a few hours of spare time and then go to sleep. The rotation of working shift will be diferrent for every person.

[QUOTE=Saquist;1519757]to many things are the same even if we ignore the language similarities and the accents.

clothing
names
written language... (note: "X" wing and "Y" wing)


apparently Star War's culture started from modern day 20 century.[/QUOTE]

It would be a little hard if evry species just talk in there language wouldn't it.
You see movies like cleopatra and spartacus and 300. thay talk english to don't they.

[QUOTE=NK101;1520499]Please excuse a FNG if this concept has been brought up already -- this thread is massive and I've only had a chance to read a tenth or so of it.
I think I first ran into this idea at rec.arts.startrek.tech, and at the time it was phrased as a Star Destroyer vs a Galaxy-class Star Fleet ship.
:eek:
In that scenario I think the Galaxy-class suffers the same fate as Princess Leah's diplomatic corvette in the opening scenes of [I]A New Hope[/I] -- swallowed up by that huge docking bay on the ventral side of the Star Destroyer and boarded by Imperial storm troopers.
:([/QUOTE]


Yah, this has been done already.

1. A Galaxy Class starship has Warp drive. How are you going to catch it?

2. A Galaxy Class starship has shields, deck-by-deck/section-by-section force fields, transporters and active weapons, how exactly are the stormtroopers going to board it if they're being blocked by shields or even forcefields if they manage to get in an airlock...while either being vaporized by phasers or beamed out into space?

3. If all else fails, the explosion of a warp core (self destruct) inside the SD will result in both ships being shattered. As strong as you may like to think an ISD is on the outside, I can say with much certainty that such a violent explosion inside the vessel will result in zero out of two ships left.


[QUOTE=NK101;1520499]
However susposse we throw a squadron of four Galaxy-class cruisers, optimized for combat instead of exploration, against a single Star Destroyer. Now I think it becomes can the Federation Commander keep out of the way of those huge ion cannons onboard the Star Destroyer, while simeltaniously wearing down the Star Destroyer's defenses. Now I think it's a case of Star Fleet Marines boarding a broken and defeated Star Destroyer, after several days of hit and run attacks.
:)[/QUOTE]

I would agree with this.

I also would agree with the Warsies that they have physically more ships, it's unlikely that an ISD would sit and take pounding from four Starships without calling for backup.

Likely, the Starfleeters would have to come up with some creative battle tactics or weapons (eg transphasic torpedos, tricobalt torpedos, time manipulation etc), like we see many times against their own 'insurmountable' enemies.

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;1520564]I think you rely to much on these replicators my dear friend. To create someting you need matter. Even if you use waste products of the people on board you still need supplies. Because human waste is still less than they consume.[/QUOTE]

Vasago, this is correct. Replicators are not inexhaustible, and also depend a lot on supplied energy. It is also indicated that replicators need some base matter supplies (generally preloaded into ship's stores etc)...I don't think the rights holders of Trek ever published a complete list of what's necessary, but various elements like oxygen, carbon etc would likely be on the list.

On the flip side however, replicators appear to be so efficient, they can probably last as a food supply line throughout a war effort, provided that the ship/base housing them retains power. Only Voyager's decades long journey brought on cause for concern with replicator exhaustion.

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1520496]I'm not arguing the metaphysical. I am arguing the physical. When a body looses weight without:

A change in mass
A change in volume
A change in apparent gravity
A change in density

Something else is at work... and science fails.[/QUOTE]

That is immaterial...
ST transporters CAN and DO transport sentient beings.
Plus, the change in mass can be explain by the lungs exhaling everything in it.
And the heart, stopping pumping blood, causing the blood that pushes against the scale to stop.

Anyway, just STOP the argument for a soul. Okay? It will take us atleast 1000 years to finish that argument.

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;1520545]Hey halo it isn't just a dress site. Look at the events and you'll notice all the neat stuff we create.
Lucas Arts themself refur to us as "The Big Prop guys"[/QUOTE]

Umm. What??

[QUOTE=Enterprise-D;1520638]
3. If all else fails, the explosion of a warp core (self destruct) inside the SD will result in both ships being shattered. As strong as you may like to think an ISD is on the outside, I can say with much certainty that such a violent explosion inside the vessel will result in zero out of two ships left.

[/QUOTE]

Well. Even if ONE part of the SW shields go down, ST ships can transport a tri-cobalt device to its reactor...
I mean, ST warp cores are force-fielded, but the SW reactors dont have permanent forcefields.
Hell, every Death Star so far and the Trade Federation control ship was destroyed this way, and there are no forcefields protecting it.
Why dishonor the ways of the rebels? destroy SW ships by destroying its core.

The first time the Death Star encounters the ST universe, they would underestimate it, causing the ST universe to beam over a bomb to the warp core.

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;1520569]It would be a little hard if evry species just talk in there language wouldn't it.
You see movies like cleopatra and spartacus and 300. thay talk english to don't they.[/QUOTE]

This is a touchy subject.

Yes characters of movies we watch should speak English. I totally agree with this, and I really get annoyed by subtitles after a while lol.

However, Saquist's point wasn't that they should have been speaking another language. It was that the use of Latin-English lettering like the X in X wing and the Y in Y wing (as well as clothes etc) would seem to indicate a very close relation to current human culture.

[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1520673]Well. Even if ONE part of the SW shields go down, ST ships can transport a tri-cobalt device to its reactor...
I mean, ST warp cores are force-fielded, but the SW reactors dont have permanent forcefields.
Hell, every Death Star so far and the Trade Federation control ship was destroyed this way, and there are no forcefields protecting it.
Why dishonor the ways of the rebels? destroy SW ships by destroying its core.

The first time the Death Star encounters the ST universe, they would underestimate it, causing the ST universe to beam over a bomb to the warp core.[/QUOTE]

True, but I was specifically addressing NK's Galaxy Class scenario. They don't have tricobalts.

Though, nothing'll stop them from transporting trusty old photon torpedos into the reactor. An unshielded metal machine would be quite vulnerable to an explosive, no matter how weak Warsies like to think photon torpedos are.

[QUOTE=Enterprise-D;1520713]True, but I was specifically addressing NK's Galaxy Class scenario. They don't have tricobalts.

Though, nothing'll stop them from transporting trusty old photon torpedos into the reactor. An unshielded metal machine would be quite vulnerable to an explosive, no matter how weak Warsies like to think photon torpedos are.[/QUOTE]

Watch. TW or Halo will come on saying the metals are too dense for transport.
Sorry, TW or Halo.
The Trade Federation ship, and both Death Stars had a open, clear, passageway to the reactor.
The ST races have been shown to beam over people at a range MORE than the radius of the Death Star.

TW hasn't been around for a while...maybe he's on vacation? (Or trying to find an internal server battery).

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;1520548]Evry1 is saying that the explosion of the SSD and the DS2 aren't big enough for the power the have. So that's why mention it[/QUOTE]

Ah... I'd have to agree with that...If the DS had that amount of power then the planet certainly should have been effected by the blast desasterously. Meanwhile on Endor Han and Leia watch as though a fireworks display.

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;1520569]It would be a little hard if evry species just talk in there language wouldn't it.
You see movies like cleopatra and spartacus and 300. thay talk english to don't they.[/QUOTE]

yeah well note the part you quoted..."ignore the lanuage similuarities."

Actually, while a transporter likely would get through the hull, you would have to get a photon torpedo from the magazine to a cargo transporter pad. Now I don't know how your going to do that. And then theres the problem of the shields. And remember, SW shields, while devided into regions, are NOT sectional like St shields (I.E. It is impossible for a SW ship to lose port shields. It loses all its shields. It can re-direct power to areas of the shields, but it can't lose one area of the shield.).

[QUOTE=halo07guy;1521066]Actually, while a transporter likely would get through the hull, you would have to get a photon torpedo from the magazine to a cargo transporter pad. Now I don't know how your going to do that. [/QUOTE]

Have you never heard of site-to-site transport?

"Picard to Transporter Room: beam them directly to the Bridge!" How familiar is that quote?

[QUOTE=halo07guy;1521066]
And then theres the problem of the shields. And remember, SW shields, while devided into regions, are NOT sectional like St shields (I.E. It is impossible for a SW ship to lose port shields. It loses all its shields. It can re-direct power to areas of the shields, but it can't lose one area of the shield.).[/QUOTE]

In case you weren't reading what started this discussion tangent, NK proposed that an ISD can simply swallow a Galaxy Class Starship into a cargo bay and board it. Of course, this means that the Galaxy can now use its transporters [I]inside the Destroyer[/I] completely unfettered by SW shields (such as they are in the first place).

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;1520568]How can there be a nightshift when your exploring space. My best guess is that you work for a set of hours have a a few hours of spare time and then go to sleep. The rotation of working shift will be diferrent for every person.[/QUOTE]

I think it's just a nickname, in relation to the captains sleep hours.