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[QUOTE=TWScott]Warp was a concept long before Star Trek. As was graviton. Isolinear does exist it mean same or one line. The prefix iso- means same or one. Just the over use of that term alone is enough to let you know that ST writers were just writing dialog based on what sounded cool. Even under suspension of disblief this means they have Photn torpedoes that are ~25 tons of TNT.
Trust me the scientific community does not speak like they do in Star trek. They write like it, but don't actually speak it.[/QUOTE]
What was that?
Lasers taht go less then speed of light?
Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs when a parsec is a unit of distance?
Non-Newtonian Physics? The X-Wing can turn sharp turns without any inertia...
WTF?
Im afraid it was Lucas who knows absolutely nothing about science or battle-tactics. It just sounds/looks cool.
From my 1977 copy of SW.
[url]http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c234/Foolfromhell/?action=view¤t=Starwars008-1.jpg[/url]
Hmm. Top left. They changed from parsec to timepart, eh?
Looks like Lucas found out he was wrong too late. Nothing about "making shortcuts" etc. It was a blatant, stupid, mistake on his part.
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[QUOTE=halo07guy;1516330]SPHA-Ts are beam weapons. Alos, you have to remember that ST ships would have to slow down to speeds close to the Empire's. Otherwise you go to fast to engage. And remember, the galaxy gun is a FTL projectile.[/QUOTE]
- Beam weapons' payload move at c. Warp 1.1 > c
- Trek ships would indeed have to slow down, but nothing prevents them from ducking back into Warp.
- FTL does not necessarily equal Warp 9.9 (over 21K times the speed of light).
[QUOTE=halo07guy;1516330]
Just so you know, if ST can't beat SW in the 24th century, then 30th century Federation would never of happened. And you must admit, time travel is the ultimate cop out. IF all seems lost, go back in time and try again. Its like Godwin's Law. Its an instant "I win button" for SW since it means that current ST tech can't beat them, and you have to try to call in future forces. And remmebr the adverse side effects of time travel. A single planet being destroyed would have massive repurcussions up the timeline. Same thing with the Romulans, Klingons, Vulcans, anyone.[/QUOTE]
The Relativity uses a temporal shield (probably derived from Janeway's model). Wars can invade and attempt to destroy anything they want...the Relativity (or any other time ship) will remain unaffected and capable of mounting a temporal strike that no Wars personnel is remotely experienced in far less for having the ability to repel.
Further, I do not care that you think it's "unfair". The 30th century Federation exists as canon and part of their mission is to preserve the timeline that [I]results[/I] in a prosperous Federation. This is canon and unarguable. Whether you feel it's a cop out or not is wholly irrelevant.
[QUOTE=halo07guy;1516330]
I doubt that the Empire would be friendly with any ST faction. Also, remember that we seem to have duplicate profiles here (Enterprises A,B,C,D, and E). That means that someone can supposedly act as a newcomer and just be trying to "back-up" their own theories. If you are a duplicate profile, please get out of here. Anything you agree with to try to sway things in your favor is going to be onesided since you'll agree with everything you say.[/QUOTE]
LOL I noticed that too. We're building a fleet here. But no I actually think myself and B are not copies of each other. An easy way to detect duplicate profiles is to note the writing styles.
But, haloguy, you have to allow for the possibility that there are more than 2 Trekkies that have internet access and knowledge of the existence of Sciforums :p
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[QUOTE=Enterprise-D;1516991]- Beam weapons' payload move at c. Warp 1.1 > c
- Trek ships would indeed have to slow down, but nothing prevents them from ducking back into Warp.
- FTL does not necessarily equal Warp 9.9 (9909 times the speed of light).
[COLOR="Red"]Actually, Warp 9.9 is ~21,473 c
And, the turrets for the SW SPTA or whatever, turrets, cant ever move fast enough to target ST ships.[/COLOR]
The Relativity uses a temporal shield (probably derived from Janeway's model). Wars can invade and attempt to destroy anything they want...the Relativity (or any other time ship) will remain unaffected and capable of mounting a temporal strike that no Wars personnel is remotely experienced in far less for having the ability to repel.
Further, I do not care that you think it's "unfair". The 30th century Federation exists as canon and part of their mission is to preserve the timeline that [I]results[/I] in a prosperous Federation. This is canon and unarguable. Whether you feel it's a cop out or not is wholly irrelevant.
LOL I noticed that too. We're building a fleet here. But no I actually think myself and B are not copies of each other. An easy way to detect duplicate profiles is to note the writing styles.
But, haloguy, you have to allow for the possibility that there are more than 2 Trekkies that have internet access and knowledge of the existence of Sciforums :p
[COLOR="Red"]Haha. Now there is an Enterprise-A too...[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Filler. message in quotes.
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[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1516968]What was that?
Lasers taht go less then speed of light?
Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs when a parsec is a unit of distance?
Non-Newtonian Physics? The X-Wing can turn sharp turns without any inertia...
WTF?
Im afraid it was Lucas who knows absolutely nothing about science or battle-tactics. It just sounds/looks cool.
From my 1977 copy of SW.
[url]http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c234/Foolfromhell/?action=view¤t=Starwars008-1.jpg[/url]
Hmm. Top left. They changed from parsec to timepart, eh?
Looks like Lucas found out he was wrong too late. Nothing about "making shortcuts" etc. It was a blatant, stupid, mistake on his part.[/QUOTE]
Hmmmmm... I know how Lucas makes a SW movie, puts a bunch of nerds in a room and they make it according to thier fantasies, and then Lucas comes in and approves of what he likes. Hmmmmm... Tee-dubya should go their sometime. But oh wait, thats right. Their aren't anymore SW films to be made. Awwwww, ain't that too bad.
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Now all we need is an enterprise C and E and our collection shall be complete!
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[QUOTE=USS Enterprise-B;1517076]Hmmmmm... I know how Lucas makes a SW movie, puts a bunch of nerds in a room and they make it according to thier fantasies, and then Lucas comes in and approves of what he likes. Hmmmmm... Tee-dubya should go their sometime. But oh wait, thats right. Their aren't anymore SW films to be made. Awwwww, ain't that too bad.[/QUOTE]
Although you have to admit that Lucas' "'Indiana Jones" movies were very good.:D
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[QUOTE=Enterprise-D;1516991]- Beam weapons' payload move at c. Warp 1.1 > c
- Trek ships would indeed have to slow down, but nothing prevents them from ducking back into Warp.
- FTL does not necessarily equal Warp 9.9 (over 21K times the speed of light).
The Relativity uses a temporal shield (probably derived from Janeway's model). Wars can invade and attempt to destroy anything they want...the Relativity (or any other time ship) will remain unaffected and capable of mounting a temporal strike that no Wars personnel is remotely experienced in far less for having the ability to repel.
Further, I do not care that you think it's "unfair". The 30th century Federation exists as canon and part of their mission is to preserve the timeline that [I]results[/I] in a prosperous Federation. This is canon and unarguable. Whether you feel it's a cop out or not is wholly irrelevant.
LOL I noticed that too. We're building a fleet here. But no I actually think myself and B are not copies of each other. An easy way to detect duplicate profiles is to note the writing styles.
But, haloguy, you have to allow for the possibility that there are more than 2 Trekkies that have internet access and knowledge of the existence of Sciforums :p[/QUOTE]
Yes when it comes down too it...30th century or 29 century vessels in trek will exist to restore the time-line or alter it. Under certain situations a Star Wars invasion would violate the Temporal Prime Directive.
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[QUOTE=USS Exeter;1517081]Now all we need is an enterprise C and E and our collection shall be complete![/QUOTE]
We do have a nice little 'fleet' of names going, a few Enterprises and the noble Exeter. I think there's another ship name somewhere...
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[QUOTE=Saquist;1517093]Yes when it comes down too it...30th century or 29 century vessels in trek will exist to restore the time-line or alter it. Under certain situations a Star Wars invasion would violate the Temporal Prime Directive.[/QUOTE]
True, but Warsie ships don't care about the Temporal Prime Directive. What the issue really would be is to eliminate the invasion force from the "successful Federation" timeline. If the Wars ships get too frisky and start catalyzing changes, the 30th century Federation would step in and make 'em step off.
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[QUOTE=USS Exeter;1517081]Now all we need is an enterprise C and E and our collection shall be complete![/QUOTE]
You forgot
USS Enterprise (XCV 330)
Enterprise (NX-01)
USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) (non-A)
And
USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-J) (From the Future)
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_J#Pre-Federation_era[/url]
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[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1517179]You forgot
USS Enterprise (XCV 330)
Enterprise (NX-01)
USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) (non-A)
And
USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-J) (From the Future)
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_J#Pre-Federation_era[/url][/QUOTE]
LOL I was going to point out the J version, but I don't like the design :rolleyes:
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You see, time travel is the big weakness here. IF a single Eclipse comes out of Hyperspace next to Earth and fires its main gun, what happens to the future Federation? Or for that matter any other races homeworld. The Federation would cease to be. The Eclipse would be "cutting off the head of the snake". And remember, you have only a select few time ships. Not really enough to change the course of a war. Tech might be more advanced, but they still would have to deal with overwhelming numbers of massive ships.
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[QUOTE=halo07guy;1517280]You see, time travel is the big weakness here. IF a single Eclipse comes out of Hyperspace next to Earth and fires its main gun, what happens to the future Federation? Or for that matter any other races homeworld. The Federation would cease to be. The Eclipse would be "cutting off the head of the snake". [/QUOTE]
The answer is the Relativity will survive the time wash. It is always in its temporal shield. If that happens, the Relativity will send back an agent stepped out of time to plant a bomb - stepped out of time again - onto the Eclipse. The Eclipse explodes just as it appears from hyperspace as the literal time bomb blows it's main gun, or power plant or some key area. Thus the Eclipse never fires at Earth, and thus the future Federation remains. Very simple.
[QUOTE=halo07guy;1517280]
And remember, you have only a select few time ships. Not really enough to change the course of a war. Tech might be more advanced, but they still would have to deal with overwhelming numbers of massive ships.[/QUOTE]
Think outside the box haloguy. The Relativity has at its disposal the ability to calculate the odds of its interference (much like the Krenim) and the results of particular types of interference. They don't actually have to disable the Eclipse or any ship in the Empire's fleet. If necessary, they can cause Darth Sidious to be deposed as Emperor. They can seal the universal breach before Warsie ships get thru.
ONE single time ship is enough (although as you say there are a few). Star Wars has no experience with time travel, and that is its linchpin in a campaign against the Trek Universe.
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[QUOTE=halo07guy;1517280]You see, time travel is the big weakness here. IF a single Eclipse comes out of Hyperspace next to Earth and fires its main gun, what happens to the future Federation? Or for that matter any other races homeworld. The Federation would cease to be. The Eclipse would be "cutting off the head of the snake". And remember, you have only a select few time ships. Not really enough to change the course of a war. Tech might be more advanced, but they still would have to deal with overwhelming numbers of massive ships.[/QUOTE]
#1 Timeships are protected by Temporal Shields to prevent this from happening... Or else, they would be basically, worthless.
#2 Obviously, the Eclipse NEVER blew up Earth. If they did, the 30th Century Federation wouldnt exist...
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I know. Thats my point. IF a single battle goes wrong for ST, then the 30th century Federation would cease to be. Its a version of the grandfather paradox. If you kill you grandfather, then you will simply cease to exist. Same thing here. If the Federation is destroyed in the 24th century, then the 30th century version will of never happened. Also, remember that all the Empire has to do is destroy important worlds to kill the future. And the big thing is, we don't know how long it would take the Empire to travel across the void between galaxies. They could arrive at anytime in ST history. 2060's,2200's, 2157. Hell they could arrive in the Cretacious era, if hyperdrive is fast enough. Remember, there are approx. 1.4 billion lightyears between the SW and ST galaxies. We don't know how long it would take to cross that gap. Also, are you sure that Relativity carries time agents? I was under the impression that they had to pick a time agent up.
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Negative...Star Trek has developed temporal shielding that protects the present from the past. This technology was made available in the 24th century but potential never happened. However knowing ships like the USS Wells and the USS Relativity exist allow them to circumvent any temporal paradox.
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[QUOTE=halo07guy;1517358]I know. Thats my point. IF a single battle goes wrong for ST, then the 30th century Federation would cease to be. Its a version of the grandfather paradox. If you kill you grandfather, then you will simply cease to exist. Same thing here. If the Federation is destroyed in the 24th century, then the 30th century version will of never happened. Also, remember that all the Empire has to do is destroy important worlds to kill the future. And the big thing is, we don't know how long it would take the Empire to travel across the void between galaxies. They could arrive at anytime in ST history. 2060's,2200's, 2157. Hell they could arrive in the Cretacious era, if hyperdrive is fast enough. Remember, there are approx. 1.4 billion lightyears between the SW and ST galaxies. We don't know how long it would take to cross that gap. Also, are you sure that Relativity carries time agents? I was under the impression that they had to pick a time agent up.[/QUOTE]
Thats exactly it though.
ST DID win.
If ST lost, the 30th Century wouldnt exist.
SW cant use temporal rifts or temporal wormholes to circumvent the Timeships...
Plus, the Relativity in the episode "Relativity", sent 2 agents to pick Seven of Nine.
Whoa. I have posted on the 200th, 250th, and 350th page...
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[QUOTE=halo07guy;1517358]I know. Thats my point. IF a single battle goes wrong for ST, then the 30th century Federation would cease to be. Its a version of the grandfather paradox. If you kill you grandfather, then you will simply cease to exist. Same thing here. If the Federation is destroyed in the 24th century, then the 30th century version will of never happened. Also, remember that all the Empire has to do is destroy important worlds to kill the future. And the big thing is, we don't know how long it would take the Empire to travel across the void between galaxies. They could arrive at anytime in ST history. 2060's,2200's, 2157. Hell they could arrive in the Cretacious era, if hyperdrive is fast enough. Remember, there are approx. 1.4 billion lightyears between the SW and ST galaxies. We don't know how long it would take to cross that gap. Also, are you sure that Relativity carries time agents? I was under the impression that they had to pick a time agent up.[/QUOTE]
Since SW appearing in the ST realm would mean some sort of universe-to-universe crossing that would be detected by the 29th-Century Federation, and thus would send a time ship to take care of it. Regarding the numbers, one ship can make all the difference, just keep coming back again and again to the same point in time, you can make numbers turn into nothing.
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No, its not Universe crossing. Its galaxy crossing. The SW galaxies are closer to the center of the Big Bang by 1.2 billion lightyears. We don't know how long it would take them to get to ST. Thats why I said they could arrive at any time. They could arrive when the dinos were still around and have a foothold in the Milky Way long before humans even evolve. Thats my point. They could arrive at any time in ST and Human history. Also, isn't temporal shielding extreamly expensive? I mean in terms of resources and construction time. If so I doubt all the planets have it, which would lead to them and anything connected to them's demise (As the planet never existed past the 24th century, events on it never happened.) Also, consider that whenever ST goes back in time, it just drills into another, but very similar, Universe. AT least, thats the way it was explained I think.
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[QUOTE=halo07guy;1517593]No, its not Universe crossing. Its galaxy crossing. The SW galaxies are closer to the center of the Big Bang by 1.2 billion lightyears. We don't know how long it would take them to get to ST. Thats why I said they could arrive at any time. They could arrive when the dinos were still around and have a foothold in the Milky Way long before humans even evolve. Thats my point. They could arrive at any time in ST and Human history. Also, isn't temporal shielding extreamly expensive? I mean in terms of resources and construction time. If so I doubt all the planets have it, which would lead to them and anything connected to them's demise (As the planet never existed past the 24th century, events on it never happened.) Also, consider that whenever ST goes back in time, it just drills into another, but very similar, Universe. AT least, thats the way it was explained I think.[/QUOTE]
Well.
Only the Timeships and a few other stuff has temporal shielding
I doubt an entire fleet will traverse 1.2 billion light years without knowing what is at the destination...
At most, an exploratory vessel.
That means, that the Timeships can easily dispatch it.
And Temporal Psychosis from multiple jumps stops after the 29th Century.
30th Century Time Agents, like Daniels from ENT, dont suffer from temporal psychosis.
[QUOTE]it just drills into another, but very similar, Universe. AT least, thats the way it was explained I think.[/QUOTE]
Nope. The only other universe that has been visited is the Mirror Universe or any universe that is a consequence of the changes in the past by time travel. Traveling to the past is the past of your own universe.
