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[QUOTE=TW Scott;1503546]Defense was the Mon Calamari cruiser sister ship to Home One and Indepedence. it was one of the two veseels destroyed by the Death Star II at Endor[/QUOTE]
Ah, alright. I generally think of the DS2 as killing planets... not ships. Which movie was this in exactly? I dont' remember that scene but it sounds like it was a fun one to watch.
I think I found a weakness of Trek. They have no shields while cloaked, whilst SW I think do. This is countered by them being able to shoot while cloaked, but so can SW, just not with too much accuracy. The one exception to that is using fire control TIEs, which would lead to Trek getting fucked 5 ways from Sunday. With cloaking not being a tactically viable option, you lose the otherwise immense firepower of several ships. Or am I wrong.
If theres one thing I like about Star Trek, its the "Loop-de-Loop of Death" they do when homing in on a cloaked target.
Also, does no one know where I can get a copy of Star Trek;Bridge Commander? I loved the demo, namely becuase I would take control of the ship and start a demolition derby by crashing ships all over the place.
[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1503478]By the way:
One dyne is the force that accelerates a mass of one gram at the rate of one centimeter per second per second.
When the USS Enterprise-D was trying to break free from the influence of the two-dimensional lifeforms, the structural integrity field stress was exceeding 82 million kilodynes and the attempt had to be aborted. (TNG: "The Loss")
I think this shows that the SIF's in Star Trek are VERY capable of defending against kinetic forces.[/quote]
Okay so a force that was able to accelerate them 0.016532258064516129032258064516129 cm per second or 0.000016869651086240947992100065832785 gravity is enough to make them worry about the ship being destroyed?
[quote]
In an alternate timeline in 2374, the USS Voyager was forced to engage warp drive while the structural integrity field was still down, in order to escape the Krenim temporal weapon ship. As a result, many of the outer hull plates were torn from the ship (VOY: "Year of Hell")
So the ship ITSELF is damn strong to SURVIVE such an acceleration.[/QUOTE]
So despite the fact that inside it's little bubble of space that is NOT MOVING the Voyager lost Hull plates? This despite Main deflector still working. Seems to me that Voyager has a major problems with keep it's integrity
[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1503552]The thing is they take references from the show and include episode names and series. If there is a question about the reference it is possible to go to the episode and either deny or confirm it. That should make them useable as canon, right?[/QUOTE]
No, untill it is denied or confirnmed by on screen observation then it is nothing more than index. Memory Alpha is NOT canon, it's just that simple. It's just a guide to where you might find the canon info
[QUOTE=TW Scott;1503562]Okay so a force that was able to accelerate them 0.016532258064516129032258064516129 cm per second or 0.000016869651086240947992100065832785 gravity is enough to make them worry about the ship being destroyed?
[COLOR="Red"]Considering the Ent-D can go from Reverse Warp 5 to full ahead warp 8 in under 5 milliseconds... that's a lot of kinetic force scott. And considering pulling up at a rate of 1 degree per second at mach 1 can put over 10G on a pilot (Sabre pilots had trouble pulling up from steep dives because they were approaching the sound barrier in planes not built for it) we can safely assume that turning in warp at a rate of 1 degree per second would put a far larger strain on the hull.[/COLOR]
So despite the fact that inside it's little bubble of space that is NOT MOVING the Voyager lost Hull plates? This despite Main deflector still working. Seems to me that Voyager has a major problems with keep it's integrity
[COLOR="Red"]The bubble and ship are not moving in relation to each other, but there is still a lot of kinetic energy- laws of motion and all that. Also, dont' forget, even "empty" space isn't truly empty. Even if it's 1 part per billion, there is something there... and space is full of microscopic dust. The Nav Deflector deflects anything that would pose a hazard to a vessel with a SIF. Without that field, the ship is still in a lot of danger. I THINK, and I say, THINK, that LaForge explained this in one of the episodes.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
maha
[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1503556]Ah, alright. I generally think of the DS2 as killing planets... not ships. Which movie was this in exactly? I dont' remember that scene but it sounds like it was a fun one to watch.[/QUOTE]
Return of the jedi during the space battle over Endor good scene actually as the DSII fires and utterly annhilates a huge Mon Cal battleship like it was nothing.
[QUOTE=TW Scott;1503568]No, untill it is denied or confirnmed by on screen observation then it is nothing more than index. Memory Alpha is NOT canon, it's just that simple. It's just a guide to where you might find the canon info[/QUOTE]
I don't understand how that works though... that's like saying if I'm writing an essay on a subject and I use entirely researched material that isn't my own, citing it properly, that my essay is not researched? Or do you mean canon as in they themselves? Their facts are canon (from canon sources, that being on screen) though their site itself is of fanmade origin.
[QUOTE=TW Scott;1503573]Return of the jedi during the space battle over Endor good scene actually as the DSII fires and utterly annhilates a huge Mon Cal battleship like it was nothing.[/QUOTE]
It used the SuperLaser at like, 1/3rd power right? I think I remember the scene you're talking about.
And the thing is, the DS2 fires faster when destroying ships becuase it uses less power. And the thing had a more advanced power system then the origional and could destroy a few planets everyday compared to the DS1 having to wait a day before firings becuase of rechage times.
The Superlaser your think of is on the Eclipse series of vessels. This was at an unimaginably tiny fraction of total potential output.
[QUOTE][B]Okay so a force that was able to accelerate them 0.016532258064516129032258064516129 cm per second or 0.000016869651086240947992100065832785 gravity is enough to make them worry about the ship being destroyed?[/B]
Considering the Ent-D can go from Reverse Warp 5 to full ahead warp 8 in under 5 milliseconds... that's a lot of kinetic force scott. And considering pulling up at a rate of 1 degree per second at mach 1 can put over 10G on a pilot (Sabre pilots had trouble pulling up from steep dives because they were approaching the sound barrier in planes not built for it) we can safely assume that turning in warp at a rate of 1 degree per second would put a far larger strain on the hull.[/QUOTE]
Actually Warp has NO FORCE as it is decribed in Star Trek. There is a bubble of space surrounding the vessel that DOES NOT MOVE and they expand space behind them and shorten it in front of them. In all reality it is if if the ship never actually moves.
But really the show pretty much tells you something 1/50,000th of one gravity is a serious threat to the ship
[QUOTE][B]So despite the fact that inside it's little bubble of space that is NOT MOVING the Voyager lost Hull plates? This despite Main deflector still working. Seems to me that Voyager has a major problems with keep it's integrity[/B]
The bubble and ship are not moving in relation to each other, but there is still a lot of kinetic energy- laws of motion and all that. Also, dont' forget, even "empty" space isn't truly empty. Even if it's 1 part per billion, there is something there... and space is full of microscopic dust. The Nav Deflector deflects anything that would pose a hazard to a vessel with a SIF. Without that field, the ship is still in a lot of danger. I THINK, and I say, THINK, that LaForge explained this in one of the episodes.[/QUOTE]
Actually if you think of it since the space around the vessel is not moving, then the dust around the ship stationary in there as well. The only threats would be objects that might already have their own inertia.
[QUOTE=TW Scott;1503588]Actually Warp has NO FORCE as it is decribed in Star Trek. There is a bubble of space surrounding the vessel that DOES NOT MOVE and they expand space behind them and shorten it in front of them. In all reality it is if if the ship never actually moves.
But really the show pretty much tells you something 1/50,000th of one gravity is a serious threat to the ship
[COLOR="Red"]The vessel itself is in motion - hence why having the warp field collapse while at warp is all but certain destruction for a ship. The bubble is not in motion in relation to the ship though as the ship generates it. Though, the faster the ship goes, the more compressed the bubble gets.[/COLOR]
Actually if you think of it since the space around the vessel is not moving, then the dust around the ship stationary in there as well. The only threats would be objects that might already have their own inertia.
[COLOR="Red"]Anything outside the bubble is still there- it's the fabric of space itself that is warped. That's why a fleet can warp away from, say, a starbase or a stationary ship with it's warp engines offline and not rip it apart via expansion and contraction[/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]
maha
[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1503574]I don't understand how that works though... that's like saying if I'm writing an essay on a subject and I use entirely researched material that isn't my own, citing it properly, that my essay is not researched? Or do you mean canon as in they themselves? Their facts are canon (from canon sources, that being on screen) though their site itself is of fanmade origin.[/QUOTE]
Actually their facts come from fans and from resoporces specifically not canon themselves. Paramount and before them Gene specifically decreed only the live series and the movies are canon, NOTHING else is.
Some facts may come from canon on MA, but the fact that it is not canon in and of itself.
Yeah, but the parts of it they cite from the movies or series directly are canon facts, right?
[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1503599]Yeah, but the parts of it they cite from the movies or series directly are canon facts, right?[/QUOTE]
Only once verified. Remeber this is a flavor of Wiki.
True... but how can I prove I have verified them? That's what I'm wondering *shrugs*
I did notice one thing while watching star wars. In that epic space battle in Return of the Jedi, the x-wings are firing at other objects while aiming and shooting manually. First of all, space is very very very very VERY BIG! in addition to that, objects move very very fast in space. It would require a computer to have the reaction time that those rebel pilots have in order to shoot those tie fighters.
[QUOTE=halo07guy;1503558]I think I found a weakness of Trek. They have no shields while cloaked, whilst SW I think do.[/QUOTE]
You have no proof that SW ships have no cloak, in the movies they make references to things that have never been estableshed before.:crazy:
Ep: V ESB
[COLOR="Lime"]Random Bridge Officer: Sir, we've lost them!
Cptn. (Needa?): Impossible, a ship that small dosen't have a cloak![/COLOR] :runaway:
Audience: What's a cloak?:shrug:
[QUOTE=USS Exeter;1505561]I did notice one thing while watching star wars. In that epic space battle in Return of the Jedi, the x-wings are firing at other objects while aiming and shooting manually. First of all, space is very very very very VERY BIG! in addition to that, objects move very very fast in space. It would require a computer to have the reaction time that those rebel pilots have in order to shoot those tie fighters.[/QUOTE]
Thank you, yet on the delta flyer, every thing is computer controled, meaning its quite the killer in a dog-fight.
[IMG]http://www.spacemedia.com/ap_sternbach_gallery_15.gif[/IMG]
Man, Trek has good taste in vehicles!
It would be horrific if star wars was a vision of the future. It's a utopian environment with a mix of some future tech and low tech (i.e. Storm troopers getting their asses kicked by teddy bears:bugeye:). Star trek on the other is in fact a great and relistic look at the future. No damn politics and everyone on earth almost gets along. The tech is a lot more interesting as well and the scientific research that they conduct. Star Wars on the other hand should actually be considered as a fantasy and not as a sci-fi. I am likely to be quoted so as a victory phrase I say: I HAVE SPOKEN!!!