Star Wars vs Star Trek

[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1496186]As in, use new DNA from Jango Fett to clone each subsequent copy.[/QUOTE]

Over 66,666 times? Ouch!:runaway:

[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1496387]Are you stupid? The Equinox was damaged. Its shields were most likely down.
Shields are up only when entering battle situations...[/QUOTE]

Excuse me but I was actually just saying the shields were down, learn to read.

[QUOTE=Saquist;1496406]For instance. I have no immediate problem with this...



Here's that dull thinking yet again.

A capcitor...seven ships to light the fuse...That's just ludacris. That just makes not sense. Why not put those capcitors on all the ships.

The center ship is an amplifier. Pure and simple. The seven ships channel and immese amount power into the one and much like a laser concetrates the energy.

But the obvious answer aludes him. He doesn't not that the Borg Cubes suffered massive damage just by one strike. In some scenes all that's need is four direct hits.

Many people in error believe that the bio energy they use will work on no one else but the borg. Fallacy, utterly.

The producers and writers made sure all Voyager ever sustained was a grazing blow. While the Borgs shields need to adapt they were never effect against this unknown type of energy.

Voyagers shields however were geared to stop as much energy as possible. The disadvantage was the borg thinking...not the borg technology. That was made evident that the Borg could not modify there own probes to deal with the enemy. Similar they could not adapt there defenses.[/QUOTE]

That makes a lot more sense.
I have a question (Not for Scott).
Can any Bioship turn its energy thats used for destroying planets towards individual ships? Or is that proof that ST shields are strong enough to protect entire planets?

[QUOTE=USS Enterprise-B;1496410]Over 66,666 times? Ouch!:runaway:[/QUOTE]

The average human has 100,000+ hairs.
Or they keep a digital copy of the DNA.
Whatever.

[QUOTE=Saquist;1496406]For instance. I have no immediate problem with this...[/quote]

thank you.

[QUOTE]Here's that dull thinking yet again.[/QUOTE]

Obviously yours instead of mine

[QUOTE]A capcitor...seven ships to light the fuse...That's just ludacris. That just makes not sense. Why not put those capcitors on all the ships. [/quote]

Okay, first of all it does make sense, I was saying the ENTIRE strange ship was the capacitor, which matches visuals as the ship in question only fires that ONE pulse. As to why not put them on all ship they might have to basically self destruct to do that. And you might need the entire energy out put of seven ships to jumpstart the reaction.

[quote]The center ship is an amplifier. Pure and simple. The seven ships channel and immese amount power into the one and much like a laser concetrates the energy.[/QUOTE]

We were not told this, and it make little sense. Lasers do not amplify energy, they do concentrated it, but provide NOTHING EXTRA to what all those photons would do. They just make the area of effect smaller.

[QUOTE]But the obvious answer aludes him. He doesn't not that the Borg Cubes suffered massive damage just by one strike. In some scenes all that's need is four direct hits.[/QUOTE]

A few hits from Fed phasers were all it took to nearly gut a Cube on first meeting, so? And there is no way you could say a Phaser even comes closer to destroying a planet or even a millionth of one.

[QUOTE]Many people in error believe that the bio energy they use will work on no one else but the borg. Fallacy, utterly.[/QUOTE]

It sucked wind against Voyager. But I am not saying it wouldn't work, I am just telling you that SW is so far above even Voth tech that comparing the effects on Borcg to effect on SW is pointless.

[QUOTE]The producers and writers made sure all Voyager ever sustained was a grazing blow. While the Borgs shields need to adapt they were never effect against this unknown type of energy.[/QUOTE]

Of course they weren't the Borg need to assimiliate a little first. However even a grazing blow should have vaporized Voyager if it could blow apart 1/8th of a planet.

Ah yes I started a new thread on a comepletely random topic, (F-14 vs. F/A-18).

[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1496413]The average human has 100,000+ hairs.
Or they keep a digital copy of the DNA.
Whatever.[/QUOTE]

Your right, but a digital copy isn't exactly possible because errors still occur, and I don't remember seeing a near-bald Jango.

Hey guy's i'm back. 332 pages ?? jeezes got a lot of catching up to do.:eek: Or is everyting still the same:bugeye:

Any side won yet:D

[QUOTE=Lord Vasago;1496662]Hey guy's i'm back. 332 pages ?? jeezes got a lot of catching up to do.:eek: Or is everyting still the same:bugeye:

Any side won yet:D[/QUOTE]

Nobody won yet and Scott doesnt ever admit to anything.
So far, I think we have admitted that ST sensors are better.
Thats it though. Haloguy has been really cool.
Good that you are back. Not many sane Wars fans here.
So far, Trek has won the sensors and tactical speed. And the fact that SSDs have very weak shielding on their bridges, making for an easy hit.
On the War's side, Wars's Death Stars are virtually unbeatable. Requiring Bioships since its unlikely Trek would have the plans that the Alliance had.
Wars also has Trek beat on building capacity. But the way I see it, the virtually infinite number of Borg bearing down on every world (All 1.5 Million) in the Wars universe would be cause for alarm for the Wars citizens...
And we are all ignoring Scott.
If he (miraculously) makes a valid argument, the sane members of this forum can state what he said.

[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1496412]That makes a lot more sense.
I have a question (Not for Scott).
Can any Bioship turn its energy thats used for destroying planets towards individual ships? Or is that proof that ST shields are strong enough to protect entire planets?[/QUOTE]

I see no technical reason why the weapon can't be aimed at a ship. However, practically speaking, the weapon takes forever to fire, a targeted ship would be able to saunter out of the way.

[QUOTE=Enterprise-D;1496758]I see no technical reason why the weapon can't be aimed at a ship. However, practically speaking, the weapon takes forever to fire, a targeted ship would be able to saunter out of the way.[/QUOTE]

Dont think the Death Star or an SSD can get out of the way that easily...

Oh, btw. In the TOS episode "Journey to Babel", the Andorian warship self-destructs with NO debris.
There is the power or explosives!

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1496335]
You forget that the show Follows the federation, and they have shown a complete lack of common sense and tactical/strategic thing on a general level. Only a few commander have shown any intelligent tactical ability.

Examples:

Nemesis: Picard and Data just commandeered a Reman fighter. Theyhave at their figertips the ability to tear the Reman ship a new from inside the shielding and armor. What do they do? They run away instead of destroying the super weapon.[/QUOTE]

1. Plot device. Were Picard and Data to do just that, there'd be no exciting Enterprise-E v Scimitar firefight, and no "clean" ending.

2. Eventually, being outnumbered the shuttle would be beamed off the ship, or Picard and Data would be beamed back to the Scimitar brig or any number of ways for Shinzon to subdue our Federation heroes.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1496335]
Nemesis: Reman boarders have just beamed aboard. They are a subterranian race that have much difficultly with reasonably bright light. What humans consider daylight is to the point of painful. Not only do Riker and Worf not think of turning up the lights, but for some reason Red Alert lowers the light level around the ship to a level comfortable for Remans.[/QUOTE]

1. Plot device. Too easy if the Reman boarders were affected by light. Plus Riker's manliness must be displayed in defense of the wifie. Something a little less drastic than turning to the Dark Side of the Force, and slaughtering children.

2. At this point the computer was damaged, perhaps the light levels were locked at the red alert status (Red Alert by the way has dimmed ship lights since Kirk days).

3. Under weapons fire, would you take the time to turn on the lights? Do you think that the hardened Remans would [I]stop[/I] firing?


[QUOTE=TW Scott;1496335]
Nemesis: Transporters only got enough juice to beam one thing over. What does our intrepid crew decided to send, Captain Picard. They don't even think of beaming over Antimatter, a quantum torpedo, or anything like that. [/QUOTE]

1. Plot device. To demonstrate Picard's manliness. To resolve the paradox of (essentially) two Picards - the whole reason for the movie being called Nemesis.

2. An unmanned weapon is too easy to overcome, and there'd be no reconnaisance to ensure Shinzon is captured or dead.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1496335]
Nemesis: Data decides he hads to help the captain, but transporters are out. Now Shuttle and Runabout transporters are a seperate system entirely and are certainly intact. What does our super intelligent android do? He leaps through space and sacrifices himself .[/QUOTE]

THIS I agree with, except

1. Plot device. Brent Spiner is ANCIENT. Data is an ageless android. Time to replace him with CGI, or a younger actor.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1496335]
These are just the some of latest of examples of Federation officer blunders. It would be okay if they rookies, but these are the Federations best.[/QUOTE]

Plot devices. Story continuation. Wasn't there some sort of consensus to roll with these in the spirit of the argument? I did miss more than half of the 330 odd pages of this debate

[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1496799]Dont think the Death Star or an SSD can get out of the way that easily...[/QUOTE]

Honestly, I don't even know why this argument includes either Death Star...they were both white elephants that were destroyed way too easily. Key word: [I]destroyed[/I].

[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1496799]
Oh, btw. In the TOS episode "Journey to Babel", the Andorian warship self-destructs with NO debris.
There is the power or explosives![/QUOTE]

ST: Generations: My warp core :D explodes, the shock wave pushing a 1 million odd metric ton saucer section that was quite a considerable distance away down to Veridian - speaks to the power of the blast.

The saucer section survives reasonably intact. Only the upper bridge window is broken (visually speaking). Speaks to the strength of ship design, considering that Grievous' Star Destroyer broke in half on entry to atmosphere.

I'm late on this one, nevertheless...

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1496352]Borg planets are like Borg ships, meaning: The first time a weapon is fired on it, the Borg are LESS THAN DEFENSELESS. A borg planet would be horribly vulnerable by any standards. Trusting the awesome shielding of their adaptability, and the fact that they had never met a race capable of blowing a planet, they have an atmosphere that is practically explosive. The surface would be lousy with Antimatter containment and antimatter powerplanet, as well as muntions. [/QUOTE]

Honeybuns...

1. (incidental point) The Borg 'homeworld' has never been displayed in canon Trek has it? You cannot assume that their planet would be unshielded, or lousy with antimatter. Stick to the canon TW.

2. Nothing was shown about this Borg colony planet outside of a lack of shielding...no munitions count, no power plants no nothing. And you're right...had they never met Species 8472, a Warsie planet killer (Death Star or what have you) would have utterly decimated a targeted Borg planet or two. Now that the Borg [I]have[/I] met a species that is able to strike a planet and dust it, you may assume (by canon behaviour) that they WILL indeed be ready for future planetary attacks, forever more, resistance is futile.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1496352]
That however is the least of it, the type of fire you are describing is seven normal bioships and a center, larger and much different vessel. Since we are not told how much energy that the bioships lend the larger ship we CANNOT say that each of the ships can destroy 1/8th of a planet. There are many other explanations that fit the visuals. Including the center ship being a special capacitor ship that houses the energy needed to destroy a planet, and that it needs the seven other ships to bascially light the fuse. Which given what we see is the most logical explanation. Since we know Voyager is vulnerable to far weaker weapons.[/QUOTE]

1. Actually the easiest assumption to make is that 8 bioships can blow any unshielded planet to bits. No calculations.

2. Saquist's amplifier explanation is the easier one. Capacitor TW? Why would you need 7 other ships to activate a capacitor? That is really stupid. A step-up transformer exist in today's society, it is extremely easy to imagine such a principle being applied to weapons development.

3. Voyager has been attacked on both Species episodes. Voyager (by plot device) was extremely lucky to survive in both cases, having been hit only by glancing blows - favouring evasive moves against 8472, unlike the Borg's frontal assault/no retreat tactics.


I get from glancing at the previous argument, that there arose a question of Species 8472 v the Empire. It is under this umbrella only that I allow for Voyager's awesome Janewayness to be sullied :D

Hmmmm, I just have never seen SW sheilds do anything.

I'm happy, I can't read Scotts messages anymore.

Sadley I haven't seen much voyager lately, and I've never seen 8472 shows yet, but I'm not surprised that they can actavate a weapon like this, because on a game called Armada II they had this weapon, take 8 battleships (bio-ships) and fire upon a frigate (a made up version of the bio-ship, slightly larger and different structure) which then fucused the energy and could destroy everything, (sadly except a planet, because if you could blow up a planet that would be to unfair to the rest of the races in the game, but like all other races you can wipe the population of a planet).

[QUOTE=USS Enterprise-B;1496917]Sadley I haven't seen much voyager lately, and I've never seen 8472 shows yet, but I'm not surprised that they can actavate a weapon like this, because on a game called Armada II they had this weapon, take 8 battleships (bio-ships) and fire upon a frigate (a made up version of the bio-ship, slightly larger and different structure) which then fucused the energy and could destroy everything, (sadly except a planet, because if you could blow up a planet that would be to unfair to the rest of the races in the game, but like all other races you can wipe the population of a planet).[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zoucuN1TUc[/url]
At 27secs, Voyager suffers a hit from a Bioship, but the shields survive, the hull is intact, and Voyager can instantly calculate a jump to Warp.
I doubt ANY SW ship that size can maneuver like that.
At 46 secs, the Bioships destroy the planet.
Sure. its 10 seconds to do it... but you know how much ENERGY it takes to blow up a PLANET? And the bioships arent even 1/1000 the size of the Death Star...

[QUOTE=USS Enterprise-B;1496917]Sadley I haven't seen much voyager lately, and I've never seen 8472 shows yet, but I'm not surprised that they can actavate a weapon like this, because on a game called Armada II they had this weapon, take 8 battleships (bio-ships) and fire upon a frigate (a made up version of the bio-ship, slightly larger and different structure) which then fucused the energy and could destroy everything, (sadly except a planet, because if you could blow up a planet that would be to unfair to the rest of the races in the game, but like all other races you can wipe the population of a planet).[/QUOTE]

The planet buster beam on the game only eliminates the population. I think allowing the beam to shatter a planet in the game would have been too complicated. In Armada II though, the beam could destroy pretty much any station...if i remember correctly.

I should resurrect that game, twas fun... :)

Heres a great example of ST technology.
Transwarp is pretty damn fast and Voyager can detect ships from ATLEAST 3 Transwarp Hours away...