Star Wars vs Star Trek

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1467306]You are correct on one part. The did use a missile like device while in warp, however in all other episide we have never seen them use such a missile against a ship again. Also the since the attack did do damage to the enterprise after the shields were dropped, it simply could have been a destructive torpedo designed envelop targets.

[COLOR="Red"]However in all other conflicts they do rely solely with the draining/tractor beam and laser cutters[/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]

Absolute rubbish.

ST: First Contact - Borg Sphere releases multiple torpedoes at earth, wiping out Cochrane's land side research facility.

ST:VOY Scorpion - Borg Cube uses a 'spin cycle' manuevre and releases 2 torpedoes per Cube side to damage a Species 8472 ship. The damage is not enough to stop the 8472 vessel and they change tactics to ramming speed to destroy it AND protect Voyager which contained the weapon of their ultimate salvation.

ST:VOY Endgame - Borg Cube #3 uses torpedoes to attempt to penetrate Voyager's new ablative armor.

ST multiple episodes - Borg drones use hand to hand combat after transporting to targeted ships (eg to repel Worf and Data in 'Best of Both Worlds', or hand weapons in 'Descent').

ST: VOY - Borg Queen uses mind games in conflict...(Dark Frontier) using her link to Seven to blackmail her surrender; (Unimatrix Zero) using self destruct on her own ships to force Janeway to back down (momentarily anyway), fighting Tuvok's Vulcan disciplines to make him work for her.

You know nothing about the Borg clearly. The most I will allow is that they are slow on the uptake in the heat of battle. They do [I]not[/I] solely rely on the assimilating tractor and the cutting beams, and use various tactics for their perceived long term victory. The tractor and cutting beam are just the easiest weapons for mass assimilation and on-screen wow-factor.

If anyone has noticed, the Borg are getting more and more cunning in each encounter. They are slowly "learning" to be as quick witted as Humans are... which is proving to be dangerous.

Correction Kitt...they have already become more cunning...even in their limited appearance in canon.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1467306]You are correct on one part. The did use a missile like device while in warp, however in all other episide we have never seen them use such a missile against a ship again. Also the since the attack did do damage to the enterprise after the shields were dropped, it simply could have been a destructive torpedo designed envelop targets.

However in all other conflicts they do rely solely with the draining/tractor beam and laser cutters

I attribute my mistake to just watching and reading the scenes of the first meeting and not the pursuit.[/QUOTE]

How bout just plain stupid....I'm SURE that played some pivotable role in all of your wrong answers.

[QUOTE][QUOTE=Enterprise-D;1467769]Absolute rubbish.

ST: First Contact - Borg Sphere releases multiple torpedoes at earth, wiping out Cochrane's land side research facility.[/QUOTE]

Yes and you will not this bombardment wasn't even equal to the Hiroshima blast. The pulses appeared to be torpedoes but could just have easily been energy pulses for all the damage they did.

[QUOTE]ST:VOY Scorpion - Borg Cube uses a 'spin cycle' manuevre and releases 2 torpedoes per Cube side to damage a Species 8472 ship. The damage is not enough to stop the 8472 vessel and they change tactics to ramming speed to destroy it AND protect Voyager which contained the weapon of their ultimate salvation.[/QUOTE]

But notice this is only against a foe they know they cannot assimilate. They do not try such tactics agains any target they have even the slightest chance of assimilating

[QUOTE]ST:VOY Endgame - Borg Cube #3 uses torpedoes to attempt to penetrate Voyager's new ablative armor.[/QUOTE]

Again they appear to be torpedoes by appearance only, but any pulse is going to look similiar. The question is upon impact did thye explode or try to burrow into the target.

[QUOTE]ST multiple episodes - Borg drones use hand to hand combat after transporting to targeted ships (eg to repel Worf and Data in 'Best of Both Worlds', or hand weapons in 'Descent').[/QUOTE]

I was obviously referring to ship weapons.

[QUOTE]ST: VOY - Borg Queen uses mind games in conflict...(Dark Frontier) using her link to Seven to blackmail her surrender; (Unimatrix Zero) using self destruct on her own ships to force Janeway to back down (momentarily anyway), fighting Tuvok's Vulcan disciplines to make him work for her.[/QUOTE]

That's a tactic, not a weapon, and a tactic of desperation I might add

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1467585]Alright, so then from what you are saying:

Since it only occured once, we can discredit it as being VERY unusual, even uncanon.

Thus, Survivors is now Uncanon.

Your call Scott- which is it going to be?[/QUOTE]

Dude, not my implication at all. What I was saying is a one time tactic that we do not see repeated, despite it's obvious power and efficiency, does not an argument make.

If we saw the borg using these torpedoes in every conflict then perhaps you would have a valid point about the system. However for all we know it could have been a warp powered minshuttle filled with explosives that was used to quickly bring down the enemy.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1468698][QUOTE]

Yes and you will not this bombardment wasn't even equal to the Hiroshima blast. The pulses appeared to be torpedoes but could just have easily been energy pulses for all the damage they did.[/QUOTE]

Except those aren't pulse blasts. Also, they are likely low yield weapons, meant to disable the settlement rather than cause death and destruction.



[QUOTE]But notice this is only against a foe they know they cannot assimilate. They do not try such tactics agains any target they have even the slightest chance of assimilating[/QUOTE]

Excuse me? The point is that they fired torps, that's all there is to it. And how do you know? The UFP is hardly a threat to them in tactical engagments, save when they pull a rabbit out of their hats, and yet we are to assume that they never use them in assimilation? How about they don't often use them against low threat ships?

[QUOTE]Again they appear to be torpedoes by appearance only, but any pulse is going to look similiar. The question is upon impact did thye explode or try to burrow into the target.[/QUOTE]

What? Why would the makers of the show make something look like a torp...and then have it not be a torp?:bugeye:

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1468702]Dude, not my implication at all. What I was saying is a one time tactic that we do not see repeated, despite it's obvious power and efficiency, does not an argument make.

If we saw the borg using these torpedoes in every conflict then perhaps you would have a valid point about the system. However for all we know it could have been a warp powered minshuttle filled with explosives that was used to quickly bring down the enemy.[/QUOTE]

...yes TW, the Borg use shuttles instead of torps.:bugeye: :m:

But here it is again, despite your red herrings

Enterprise-D Warp core output. 12 billion gigawats per second.

ISD firepower output: 3.4485 billion terrawats per two seconds for Turbolasers and Ion Cannons

These are canon figures. Not that I expect any of you to admit the truth.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1468753]But here it is again, despite your red herrings

Enterprise-D Warp core output. 12 billion gigawats per second.

ISD firepower output: 3.4485 billion terrawats per two seconds for Turbolasers and Ion Cannons

These are canon figures. Not that I expect any of you to admit the truth.[/QUOTE]

Its also canon that the Eneterprise D shot a photon into a sun and the torp didn't at all seem bothered by the fact that it was in a sun. There's also the fact that Han shoots your ICS yields to hell.

Lets go over the facts shall we?

1) Han is a professional smuggler, even Jabba the Hutt said so, a large crime lord.

2) Han said that not even the entire starfleet could destroy Alderaan. He said it would take a thousand ships-, its possible that a starfleet means one fleet, so we know that not even a fleet of starships can do it. Likely closer to a thousand.

3) Han was right about the sensor blindspot on the back of an ISD.

4) Han was right about them dumping their shit before making a hyperjump.

5) According to your idolized EU, Han Solo is a former Imperial Pilot. Unless you wish to assert that the Empire are fucking retards, they would train their pilots on the basics of ship operations as well as combat, not to mention that Han himself might have been involved in a battle, and would be familiar with their weaponry.

6) The Empire uses fear to keep people in controle. If they could have obliterated planets, Ben and Luke would have thought something was up when Han made his comment.

7) Its canon that the Clone Wars where common knowledge, even to a backwater planet like Alderaan.

8) Ben made no comment on how stupid of an idea that was, nor gave any indication of such. Ben was also a formal commander of the Republic ships, which is the era that ICS is supposedly giving the 12.5 GGs. One would think that someone might have made a mention of that to their commanding officer, or that Ben would have noticed that.

9) There is no massive shockwave when we see something explode. The Enterprise D caused a massive shockwave that sent the fleeing disk portion of the ship off course crashing onto a nearby planet. Its also worth noting that the Enterprise D fared better in atmospheric entry than the command ship in RTS

10) By the above logic of your claims, we should see massive shock waves...and yet we never do, not even when large ships that apparently toss this stuff around like candy explode. One would seem to ask where all that energy is going.

Look there, apparently there are ten good reasons why your claims are bullshit.

[QUOTE=Hellblade8;1468774]Its also canon that the Eneterprise D shot a photon into a sun and the torp didn't at all seem bothered by the fact that it was in a sun. There's also the fact that Han shoots your ICS yields to hell.[/quote]

A speically modified Photon torpedo, remeber. One that the scientist designing the device took decades to design even the prototype.

[QUOTE]Lets go over the facts shall we?[/QUOTE]

Sure

[QUOTE]1) Han is a professional smuggler, even Jabba the Hutt said so, a large crime lord. [/QUOTE]

Yes, yes, true. Though honestly Captain Solo was previously a Imperial navy Officer as well.

[QUOTE]2) Han said that not even the entire starfleet could destroy Alderaan. He said it would take a thousand ships-, its possible that a starfleet means one fleet, so we know that not even a fleet of starships can do it. Likely closer to a thousand.[/QUOTE]

Yes he did say that, though he continued with "-with more firepower than I've..." This could mnean he is exaggerating. Humans do that you realize.

Also for your edification the joules needed just to defeat the gravitational binding on an earth sized planet is measured with 38 zeroes. And that would be a slow breaking up, not a rapid explosion. You would need 10,000,000,000,000,000,000 Heavy Turbolasers to even think of getting near that number

[QUOTE]3) Han was right about the sensor blindspot on the back of an ISD.[/QUOTE]

Yes he was, but being right about one thing does not always mean right about another.

[QUOTE]4) Han was right about them dumping their shit before making a hyperjump. [/QUOTE]

See above.

[QUOTE]5) According to your idolized EU, Han Solo is a former Imperial Pilot. Unless you wish to assert that the Empire are fucking retards, they would train their pilots on the basics of ship operations as well as combat, not to mention that Han himself might have been involved in a battle, and would be familiar with their weaponry.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but understanding weaponry does not neccesarily mean you understand the physics involved with breaking a planet apart.

[QUOTE]6) The Empire uses fear to keep people in controle. If they could have obliterated planets, Ben and Luke would have thought something was up when Han made his comment.[/QUOTE]

Actually, at first the Empire used Bureacracy and prpaganda to maintian control. In fact Palpatine was much loved in the core worlds.

[QUOTE]7) Its canon that the Clone Wars where common knowledge, even to a backwater planet like Alderaan. [/QUOTE]

Alderaan was not back water. Along with Coruscant and Corelia it was one of the major human worlds.

[QUOTE]8) Ben made no comment on how stupid of an idea that was, nor gave any indication of such. Ben was also a formal commander of the Republic ships, which is the era that ICS is supposedly giving the 12.5 GGs. One would think that someone might have made a mention of that to their commanding officer, or that Ben would have noticed that.[/QUOTE]

Well, considering that Ben was mostly a ground forces leader i do not see how this equates, but again see above.

[QUOTE]9) There is no massive shockwave when we see something explode. The Enterprise D caused a massive shockwave that sent the fleeing disk portion of the ship off course crashing onto a nearby planet. Its also worth noting that the Enterprise D fared better in atmospheric entry than the command ship in RTS[/QUOTE]

Warp core breaches cuase a subspace shockwave as well as a warp pulse effect. This is unique to warp engines.

As for other shockwaves, with no medium to carry they just don't exist.

[QUOTE]10) By the above logic of your claims, we should see massive shock waves...and yet we never do, not even when large ships that apparently toss this stuff around like candy explode. One would seem to ask where all that energy is going.[/QUOTE]

Actually as eexplained under number nine. A shockwave needs a medium to carry it. Vacuum is not a proper medium.

[quote]Look there, apparently there are ten good reasons why your claims are bullshit.[/QUOTE]

More like ten reason we now understand how little you know about anything.

hellblade how is it that you think you know so much more about star wars than a star wars fan like me

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1468812]A speically modified Photon torpedo, remeber. One that the scientist designing the device took decades to design even the prototype.[/QUOTE]

Only its sensors had been altered.



[QUOTE]Yes, yes, true. Though honestly Captain Solo was previously a Imperial navy Officer as well.[/QUOTE]

I already said that...

[QUOTE]Yes he did say that, though he continued with "-with more firepower than I've..." This could mnean he is exaggerating. Humans do that you realize.[/QUOTE]

I very much doubt he was going too far overboard.

[QUOTE]Also for your edification the joules needed just to defeat the gravitational binding on an earth sized planet is measured with 38 zeroes. And that would be a slow breaking up, not a rapid explosion. You would need 10,000,000,000,000,000,000 Heavy Turbolasers to even think of getting near that number[/QUOTE]

Oh? Apparently the ST powers can destroy planets, how is it that the Empire fails at this?

[QUOTE]Yes he was, but being right about one thing does not always mean right about another.[/QUOTE]

No, but it does give him credit, and seeing as all of them falls into his field of expertise, I give it to Han over ICS.

[QUOTE]See above.[/QUOTE]

See above.

[QUOTE]Yes, but understanding weaponry does not neccesarily mean you understand the physics involved with breaking a planet apart.[/QUOTE]

True, but nor is the proof that Han didn't understand it, which you would need to prove in order to counter my argument. A character with knowledge in the field in G-Level canon is higher source than C-Level canon. Also, Han comes from an advanced society, one might assume that he has a high intelligence compared to our own.

[QUOTE]Actually, at first the Empire used Bureacracy and prpaganda to maintian control. In fact Palpatine was much loved in the core worlds.[/QUOTE]

Really, I suppose the Death Star would account for this? Or the fact that their ships where made to look scary? And this doesn't change the fact that this would be well known knowledge.

[QUOTE]Alderaan was not back water. Along with Coruscant and Corelia it was one of the major human worlds.[/QUOTE]

Excuse me, I meant Tatooine, or whatever its called. Luke knew about the Clone Wars if you recall.

[QUOTE]Well, considering that Ben was mostly a ground forces leader i do not see how this equates, but again see above.[/QUOTE]

Wait, your telling me that the Jedi Masters didn't know what kind of firepower these ships could put out? What are you trying to pull? Furthermore, wouldn't he have been briefed? And since he worked for the government, wouldn't he have some idea how powerful these weapons where? And yet your saying no? I call bullshit. Even military officials tend today tend to have an idea of the upper limits of aircraft bombs. Claiming that Ben is ignorant of this fact is just plain stupid.

[QUOTE]Warp core breaches cuase a subspace shockwave as well as a warp pulse effect. This is unique to warp engines.[/QUOTE]

No they don't. That's only if you generate the energy into the warp engines, which would cause even more of a danger. The warp engines would be destroyed, and the warp core works off of anti-matter, so what you claim isn't possible.

[QUOTE]As for other shockwaves, with no medium to carry they just don't exist.[/QUOTE]

And again, you are wrong. Shock waves can occur in space. The difference is that the energy expands more quickly because there isn't any air. Therefore making the eplosive energy only a fraction of what it would be on earth. If your weapons are so much more powerful than Enterprise D's Warpcore, it should have similar, if not stronger results than this.

[QUOTE]Actually as eexplained under number nine. A shockwave needs a medium to carry it. Vacuum is not a proper medium.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps some [URL="http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF7/778.html"]sources[/URL] will get you to listen to reality.

[QUOTE]A shock wave of ionized gas arcs around a large star in the Orion Nebula. This is very similar to the manner in which the earth's magnetic field deflects particles in the solar wind.



Shock waves that we now call sonic booms first made their impression on mankind in the form of thunderclaps. Before long, man learned to create his own sonic boom by cracking a whip, in which the tip of the whip exceeds the speed of sound. Anyone who has changed targets in the pit of a firing range knows that they hear the snap of a bullet breaking the sound barrier over their head before they hear the distant crack of the rifle that fired it.

We are confronted with shock waves all the time. Ordinarily, when we think of sonic booms, we picture a supersonic airplane flying overhead. The sonic boom tracks along the ground at the same speed as the aircraft--the faster the plane, the more the boom lags behind. Larger meteors entering the atmosphere create shock waves which can be detected on the ground as low-frequency vibration known as infrasound.

Shock waves result when the matter through which the wave is passing is compressed and the molecules collide and vibrate. When the velocity of the disturbance is extreme, such as in the case of a meteor, electrons are knocked loose and the molecules are ionized.

In space, explosions are constantly occurring. It is somewhat paradoxical that the ultimate explosion, the "Big Bang" in which the universe is believed to have been created some 20 billion years ago, could not have produced a shock wave. Although "things" were sent flying in every direction, space was a total vacuum then and there was nothing to compress.

Now, there are a few particles in every cubic centimeter of space and shock waves are abundant. The ones which effect us most directly originate from solar flares on the sun. When a large solar flare erupts, electromagnetic radiation in the form of X-rays and radio waves travel to the earth at the speed of light and arrive here in about 8 minutes. The shock wave, however, is produced by an expanding, teardrop-shaped "piston" of ionized gases driving toward the earth at about 600 miles a second (the shape traces out magnetic field lines of the sun).

On arrival, the shock wave and the ionized solar gases interact with the earth's magnetic field. The hot gas is so tenuous that it scarcely affects conditions in our atmosphere, but it profoundly affects radio communications, often resulting in a total "blackout." It is also during times of large solar flares that we are likely to experience the most brilliant and spectacular auroras. [/QUOTE]

Or how about [URL="http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060307_galaxy_sonicboom.html"]this[/URL]?

[QUOTE]A galaxy in Stephan's Quintet is rushing headlong into a cluster of neighboring galaxies at more than one million mph and generating one of the largest shock waves scientists have ever seen.

The finding, made using NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope, gives astronomers a chance to see a galactic collision in action and could help explain why some galaxies are more luminous in the infrared than others.

A cosmic pileup

Stephen's Quintet is a cluster of five galaxies located about 300 million light-years away in the constellation Pegasus. For decades, astronomers using optical telescopes have known that galaxies in the cluster had experienced encounters in the past and that some were colliding even now.

But it wasn't until they used Spitzer's Infrared Spectrograph on the galaxy cluster that they could make out the details of what was happening.

They discovered that one of the galaxies, called NGC7318b, is currently falling toward three of the others at a very high speed and generating a giant shock wave, or "bow shock," in front of it. A bow shock is akin to the ripple raised by a boat's bow as it moves through the water.

NGC7318b is estimated to be moving at more than 540 miles per second (873 kms) and generating a colossal shockwave larger than our own Milky Way Galaxy.

Faster than sound

Shock waves are generated when an object moves faster than the speed of sound through some kind of medium. On Earth, the medium is usually air or water; in space, it's interstellar gas.

One familiar type of shock wave is the "sonic boom" created by supersonic jets as they fly by overhead. As the jet moves through the air, it creates pressure waves in front and behind it. These waves travel at the speed of sound, called Mach 1. As the jet approaches this speed, it compresses the waves together into a cone-shaped "shock" which travels outward toward the ground, producing an audible boom.

In Stephan's Quintet, the shock wave generated by the infall of NGC7318b is estimated to be moving at speeds greater than Mach 100.

Time machine

The researchers discovered the shockwave after detecting infrared radiation emitted from molecular hydrogen in the region that had been disturbed. Unlike atomic hydrogen, molecular hydrogen emits infrared energy when jostled.

The finding could lead to a better understanding of so-called Ultra-luminous Infrared Galaxies, which typically have infrared luminosities 100 to 1,000 times greater than the Milky Way.

"We know that these galaxies are involved in vast mergers and collisions," said study leader Philip Appleton of the California Institute of Technology. "It's possible that some of the emission we see from them is created not by stars, but by vast shocks in the gas between colliding galaxies."

The finding also gives scientists a glimpse into what the universe was like in the first few billion years after the Big Bang. It's thought that many galaxies, including our own, grew as a result of galactic mergers and that these events were more common during the early years of the universe.

"In this respect these observations are a bit like stepping into a time machine," said study team member Cristina Popescu from the Max Planck Institute for Nuclear Physics in Germany.

In addition to acting like a window into the far distant past, the collision in Stephen's Quintet could give scientists a preview of our own galaxy's fate in the far distant future.

Scientists predict that in about 2 or 3 billion years, the Milky Way will collide with the slightly larger Andromeda Galaxy. It's expected that both galaxies will lose their spiral shape and merge to become a single elliptical galaxy.

The finding is detailed in the March 10 issue of Astrophysical Journal Letters.[/QUOTE]

and of course, [URL="http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/06/08/geomagnetic.storms.update/index.html"]this[/URL]?

[QUOTE]WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Reaching the peak of an 11-year cycle of solar activity, the sun has ejected massive bursts of charged particles toward the Earth, which could kick off brilliant atmospheric light displays and electrical disruptions on Thursday.

The blast of charged solar particles already is producing scattered radio blackouts but is not expected to significantly disrupt telecommunications or electrical power.

Geomagnetic disturbances should begin after sunset when the first shock wave reaches the Earth's magnetosphere. Aurora watchers could see particularly strong Northern Lights, while power grids and satellites could experience electrical problems, according to space weather forecasters.

The U.S. Space Environment Center in Boulder has issued an outlook for strong geomagnetic storms. They occur when bubbles of charged gas erupt off the sun, washing out over the planets in the solar system.


The Earth's natural electromagnetic field shields the planet from the most harmful effects, but some adverse consequences may occur.

The federal center predicted a category G3 storm for Thursday and Friday, on a scale of G1 (minor) to G5 (extreme). A G3 disturbance may cause the following effects:

Power system grids may require voltage corrections and false alarms may be triggered on grid protection devices.


Spacecraft may experience surface "charging" -- meaning an electrical charge could affect electronic systems onboard. Spacecraft could experience orientation problems that could require correction.


High-frequency radio signals may be interrupted. Low-frequency radio navigation and satellite navigation problems may occur.


The aurora borealis, or Northern Lights, could be visible beyond its normal range, possibly in the northern continental United States.

A solar flare erupts from the upper left central region of the sun, right before a powerful coronal mass ejection

The sun is approaching the height of its 11-year storm cycle. Unlike previous cycles, this period has been relatively quiet, with eruptions every two months or so.

But this storm is estimated to be 20 times stronger than a solar flare in early April.

Powerful solar eruptions emanated from the sun on Tuesday and Wednesday, as several X-class solar flares ejected an estimated billion tons or more of charged particles into space, heading in the direction of Earth.

In 1989, a severe solar storm knocked out power stations serving Canada and the northeastern states, as well as an electrical transformer in New Jersey. Since then, power grid and satellite operators have taken steps to protect their systems. [/QUOTE]

Yeah, how silly of me to think that a shockwave could exist in space...

[QUOTE]More like ten reason we now understand how little you know about anything.[/QUOTE]

You mean like how apparently I lacked the ability to make a ten minute google search to make you look like an idiot?

[QUOTE=Qui-Gon Jinn;1468853]hellblade how is it that you think you know so much more about star wars than a star wars fan like me[/QUOTE]

Well, given that you haven't really added to this debate, I can't just assume that anyone who claims to be a Star Wars fan knows more about it than I do.

[QUOTE=Hellblade8;1468859]Well, given that you haven't really added to this debate, I can't just assume that anyone who claims to be a Star Wars fan knows more about it than I do.[/QUOTE]
so you say are a star wars fan than answer this how dose durge die

[QUOTE=Qui-Gon Jinn;1468861]so you say are a star wars fan than answer this how dose durge die[/QUOTE]

You mean the guy from the Clone Wars thing? The one who fought Ben? Didn't he then and there? And why does this matter?

[QUOTE=Hellblade8;1468864]You mean the guy from the Clone Wars thing? The one who fought Ben? Didn't he then and there? And why does this matter?[/QUOTE]
because if you realy are a star wars fan you would know this and if you are not a star wars fan stop saying things like you know what your talking about

[QUOTE=Qui-Gon Jinn;1468873]because if you realy are a star wars fan you would know this and if you are not a star wars fan stop saying things like you know what your talking about[/QUOTE]

Interesting, so I take it you have a counter-argument that you could use to disprove my posts?

And again, how is this relavent? You do know that anyone with half a brain could have just done a google search or gone to the Star Wars databank on the official website right?:bugeye:

[QUOTE=Hellblade8;1468856]Only its sensors had been altered.[/quote]

Dude, it was fitted with special emitters to try to kickstart the sun back to normal. In fact the only thing that was normal was the casing and the warp sustainer engines.


[QUOTE]Oh? Apparently the ST powers can destroy planets, how is it that the Empire fails at this?[/QUOTE]

ST has not Destroyed a single planet on screen, except possibly species 8472. SW destroyed one planet on screen with absolutely no doubts.

[QUOTE]No, but it does give him credit, and seeing as all of them falls into his field of expertise, I give it to Han over ICS.[/QUOTE]

Fine, but what Han says does not counter ICS in the slightest.


[QUOTE]True, but nor is the proof that Han didn't understand it, which you would need to prove in order to counter my argument. A character with knowledge in the field in G-Level canon is higher source than C-Level canon. Also, Han comes from an advanced society, one might assume that he has a high intelligence compared to our own.[/QUOTE]

Yes, that becomes real apparrant when it takes Luke to explain to him that the Princess might be able to reward him monetarily.

Also while Han's knowledge might be above C level canon, it also might not. You have to prove it is.

Besides which nothing he said disputes the 12.5 gigatons.

[QUOTE]Really, I suppose the Death Star would account for this? Or the fact that their ships where made to look scary? And this doesn't change the fact that this would be well known knowledge.[/QUOTE]

Excuse me, but the Empire ruled through Propaganda and Bureacracy. Even when Palpatine dibarred the Senate he was popular. he did not need the tarkin principle to maintian control.

[QUOTE]Excuse me, I meant Tatooine, or whatever its called. Luke knew about the Clone Wars if you recall. [/QUOTE]

Yes, Luke did. So?

[QUOTE]Wait, your telling me that the Jedi Masters didn't know what kind of firepower these ships could put out? What are you trying to pull? Furthermore, wouldn't he have been briefed? And since he worked for the government, wouldn't he have some idea how powerful these weapons where? And yet your saying no? I call bullshit. Even military officials tend today tend to have an idea of the upper limits of aircraft bombs. Claiming that Ben is ignorant of this fact is just plain stupid.[/QUOTE]

jedi's do not work for the government. They work for the order. The Jedi Council is actually the one to own the army thanks to Sidious' manipulations. However he might have been briefed about the fire power, but as I mentionioned it would take 10,000,000,000,000,000,000 Heavy turbolaser to cuase the slow breakup of a planet.

[QUOTE]No they don't. That's only if you generate the energy into the warp engines, which would cause even more of a danger. The warp engines would be destroyed, and the warp core works off of anti-matter, so what you claim isn't possible. [/QUOTE]

Dude, the one thing I know about electronics is quite a bit of the time when a unit is destroyed there is one final short out. This short out could easily make a warp pulse.

[QUOTE]And again, you are wrong. Shock waves can occur in space. The difference is that the energy expands more quickly because there isn't any air. Therefore making the eplosive energy only a fraction of what it would be on earth. If your weapons are so much more powerful than Enterprise D's Warpcore, it should have similar, if not stronger results than this.[/QUOTE]

Someone explain to this asshole why explosions in space do not cuase the massive shockwaves he imagines it does. He obviously failed every form of physics known to man.

[QUOTE=Hellblade8;1468876]Interesting, so I take it you have a counter-argument that you could use to disprove my posts?

And again, how is this relavent? You do know that anyone with half a brain could have just done a google search or gone to the Star Wars databank on the official website right?:bugeye:[/QUOTE]
true you have a point but you are pissing me off so im calling you out