Printable View
Okay try to prove this one wrong
Total Power Output of Galaxy class Starship Warpcore. 12 billion gigawatts or 12,000,000,000,000,000,000 watts per second Source: True Q (TNG)
Total Output of Heavy Turbolaser. 12.5 gigatons or 12,500,000,000,000,000,000 calories or ~ 52,250,000,000,000,000,000 watts per 1/15th second Source: Incredible Cross Sections: Attack of the Clones
Both sources are canon and not disputed by anything else in canon.
[QUOTE=TW Scott;1457970]Okay try to prove this one wrong
Total Power Output of Galaxy class Starship Warpcore. 12 billion gigawatts or 12,000,000,000,000,000,000 watts per second Source: True Q (TNG)
Total Output of Heavy Turbolaser. 12.5 gigatons or 12,500,000,000,000,000,000 calories or ~ 52,250,000,000,000,000,000 watts per 1/15th second Source: Incredible Cross Sections: Attack of the Clones
Both sources are canon and not disputed by anything else in canon.[/QUOTE]
You mean ignoring the fact that said power generation would mean that any planet an ISD came by would be fucked? Tell me, do you know how powerful a 12.5 gigatons is?:bugeye:
No really, do you? And by that matter, do you even understand the fact that we never see this shit onscreen? You do know that if what you said where true, we would see explosions much larger than a warpcore breach in the Revenge of the Sith? You do realize that those ships would literally have killed the vast majority of the planet below given that their weapons are man-armed and one miss on a ship could hit the planet and literally kill millions? You do know that what you suggest is just stupid? You do realise that in Empire Strikes back, that they could have literally cleared miles of astroids with just one shot?
You do know that the explosion from when the Exacutor hit the Death Star II would have sent a shockwave that would likely have killed the vast majority of life on the moon?
i'm back
how wide is the difiant
[QUOTE=Qui-Gon Jinn;1457995]how wide is the difiant[/QUOTE]
Not sure, fairly wide I would imagine. Its somewhat disk shaped (not too much, but it has some round qualities) and its 120 meters long, so I would imagine fairly wide. It wouldn't need to fit in the trench, though it possibly could.
Actually, TW's number may or may not be correct. Assuming that because its 12.5 gigatons, it must blow up really big, is just a simple way of thinking of it. It is possible that a sufficently advanced civilization could focus that much firepower into a small area. Look at ST ship's phasers. They focus an extream amount of heat and energy in a small area. A person could be standing about 15 meters away, and not feel anything. Yet where the beam hits, its hot enough to vaporise just about anything there. A heavy turbolaser may focus energy and heat in a small area. And about the shield dispute, remember that a droideka should not be considered representitive of the whole. It has a much smaller onboard power plant then a starship, explaining why it has to open wholes for a fraction of a second. And then theres the effects an atmosphere could or could not have on a shield. A starships weapons generate a small, short lived, magnetic field that is wrapped around the plasma.This magnetic field passes through the shield and then dissolves, essentially acting as a futuristic sabot round. Ths just my theory however. I beleive that Alderann did have a shield active when the Death Star destroyed it, but it was like your nav shields, designed to prevent things like asteroids impacts and stuff like that. It simply was not designed for combat.
And Blade, you need air for there to be a shockwave, which is why weapons such as nukes cause so much devastation. In space, a nuke would have to rely on its heat and radiation to kill the target.
Can someone get me a comparison of the weapon ranges and firepower from both sides? Nothing over-exaggerated, I mean like numbers from Memory Alpha and Wikipedia. If you can, try to double check it with material in Star Trek. And TW, can please double check any numbers you find with Star wars material, like the Kotor games, books, websites, anything. I'm trying to see if we can make a chart of what advantages and disadvantages each side has over the other from cannon sources from both sides.
[url]http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWhi2.html[/url]
There you go Halo07guy. Remember, neither side really gives exact weapons ranges. They must be interpreted from what we see on screen. In SW, we see ships attacking in formations where they can, literally, ram each other simply by turning.
In Trek we see torpedos travel vast distances and manuver (although not all that gracefully of course) to impact their targets.
I have heard it said once that phasers have a maximum efficiency at under 2400 km. I am not sure where or why, but that number sticks in my mind. Over that, the damage done is reduced due to the particulate matter in space. This effect is nicely avoided in SW because they never make mention of it in the movies but it can be assumed to be true as even a pure kinetic projectile will be slowed by the particulate matter in space.
Hellblade, the reason scott is ignoring you is because he has you on ignore. He wasn't able to beat you so he is simply going to pretend you do not existt.
Scott- the planet exploaded... there would barely be TIME for a visible ejecta to occur. Perhaps a navigation shield as halo said. However, RSA has given a very rational explanation for why there could not be a shield, starting with that not ONLY did it not act as most SW shields do (only the Gungan shields have ever "lit up" upon weapons impact, yet Aldaraan went up lit up like a Roman candle) but there was no real delay beyond what was most likely necessary for the energy burst to actually penetrate the planet and destroy it (given frame by frame analysis)
[QUOTE=TW Scott;1457832] Kevin was of a species that could manipulate matter and energy seemingly at will. Why us an illusion when the real thing can be so much more effective.[/QUOTE]
Who said it was the "real" thing?:bugeye:
[QUOTE=TW Scott;1457970]
Total Output of Heavy Turbolaser. 12.5 gigatons or 12,500,000,000,000,000,000 calories or ~ 52,250,000,000,000,000,000 watts per 1/15th second Source: Incredible Cross Sections: Attack of the Clones[/QUOTE]
But the asteroids weren't vaporized!:m:
And that book is canon yet is randomly explains how things work!:eek:
[QUOTE=USS Enterprise-B;1458671]But the asteroids weren't vaporized!:m:
And that book is canon yet is randomly explains how things work!:eek:[/QUOTE]
The asteroids in ESB appear to be vaporized thus they are vaporized. Novelization agrees. Got a problem? Tough.
[QUOTE=halo07guy;1458198]Actually, TW's number may or may not be correct. Assuming that because its 12.5 gigatons, it must blow up really big, is just a simple way of thinking of it. It is possible that a sufficently advanced civilization could focus that much firepower into a small area. Look at ST ship's phasers. They focus an extream amount of heat and energy in a small area. A person could be standing about 15 meters away, and not feel anything. Yet where the beam hits, its hot enough to vaporise just about anything there. A heavy turbolaser may focus energy and heat in a small area. And about the shield dispute, remember that a droideka should not be considered representitive of the whole. It has a much smaller onboard power plant then a starship, explaining why it has to open wholes for a fraction of a second. And then theres the effects an atmosphere could or could not have on a shield. A starships weapons generate a small, short lived, magnetic field that is wrapped around the plasma.This magnetic field passes through the shield and then dissolves, essentially acting as a futuristic sabot round. Ths just my theory however. I beleive that Alderann did have a shield active when the Death Star destroyed it, but it was like your nav shields, designed to prevent things like asteroids impacts and stuff like that. It simply was not designed for combat.[/QUOTE]
Okay first, I am not the one expecting a 12.5 gigaton laser to explode like a bomb. I understand compltely what effect it would have on a target.
Second, The number is Canon and therefore correct untillsomeone shows that they did not destroy something we absolutely know the power needed to destroy.
Finally the visuals of the scene indicated Alderaan had a shield. Even a simple deflective shield designed to hold off asteroids would completely Nullify the MCR part of RSA/Darkstar's hypothesis.
[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1458501]There you go Halo07guy. Remember, neither side really gives exact weapons ranges. They must be interpreted from what we see on screen. In SW, we see ships attacking in formations where they can, literally, ram each other simply by turning.[/quote]
We have also see ships engage each other at several hundred kilometers. However you are partially wrong. We have seen fighters attack in formation, meanwhile Capital ships just wade into combat with little regard for such niceties.
[QUOTE]In Trek we see torpedos travel vast distances and manuver (although not all that gracefully of course) to impact their targets.[/QUOTE]
But 99.99% of the time we see Star Trek ships moving in nose to nose for combat. And the vessels do rely on formations when in groups.
[quote]Scott- the planet exploaded... there would barely be TIME for a visible ejecta to occur. Perhaps a navigation shield as halo said. However, RSA has given a very rational explanation for why there could not be a shield, starting with that not ONLY did it not act as most SW shields do (only the Gungan shields have ever "lit up" upon weapons impact, yet Aldaraan went up lit up like a Roman candle) but there was no real delay beyond what was most likely necessary for the energy burst to actually penetrate the planet and destroy it (given frame by frame analysis)[/QUOTE]
Excuse me but if you watch it is slow mo you can get the real sense of delay. The beam hit and there was a measurable delay (even in normal spead) before the planet exploded. A beam that powerful should have kicked up ejecta immediately and would NOT have lit oup the whole hemisphere on hitting.
RSA's theory is a load of bullshit. Basically he is saying that since he thinks the Empire does not have advanced energy generation abilities that they somehow figured out how to convert matter to energy directly. Can you see the problem here?
Scott, the entire planetary surface most likely MELTED as the energy coursed thru it! That kind of heat output is IMMENSE! It WOULD glow white hot! The problem is, the pre-strike aldaraan and the during-strike aldaraan and the pre-explosion aldaraan are all EXACTLY the same size. Maybe a pixel difference here or there at MOST. But nothing to suggest a shield. Also, when ELSE in star wars have you seen the shields GLOW upon impact?
Finally, RSA's pictures SHOW some ejecta! Here, look!
[IMG]http://www.st-v-sw.net/images/Wars/Special/SF/DVD-Aldcrop/ANHDVD-Aldblow04sm.jpg[/IMG]
let us assume the planetary shield would be just outside the atmosphere (which can safely be assumed to be at LEAST a few HUNDRED miles (assuming Earths atmosphere for comparison) for the sake of safety reasons and for the sake of why would you basicly cut part of the atmosphere away?
Okay, here is RSA's comparison photos:
[IMG]http://www.st-v-sw.net/images/Wars/Special/SF/DVD-Aldcrop/ANHDVD-Aldbeamprehit00sm-bright25cont75-inversemask-watmos2.jpg[/IMG]
That is aldaraan at MAX BRIGHTNESS pre-strike. This is so you can see the absolute outer edge of the planet. He drew did colour correction to get the absolute boundaries, making it as accurate as possible. Then he drew a circle around it.
now, overlay that EXACT same picture with the aldaraan mid-strike (as it glows but BEFORE there is ejecta which could only occur AFTER it passes the shield and strikes the surface)
[IMG]http://www.st-v-sw.net/images/Wars/Special/SF/DVD-Aldcrop/ANHDVD-Aldblow02sm-wcirc.jpg[/IMG]
As you can see, it fits quite nicely inside said circle.
Thus, it is DEFINITIVELY not the shield that is aglow. It is the planet itself as first it's atmosphere ignites as the heat spreads thru it and then as the planet itself disintegrates and finally as it explodes.
Proven frame by frame on RSA's site. How you can say it is wrong or inaccurate is beyond me.
i think that if starwars had more pie in it.It would kick ass.:)
[QUOTE=TW Scott;1458716]The asteroids in ESB appear to be vaporized thus they are vaporized. Novelization agrees. Got a problem? Tough.[/QUOTE]
No, look closely they are blown away!
[QUOTE=USS Citadel;1458795]i think that if starwars had more pie in it.It would kick ass.:)[/QUOTE]
No your just on :m:. Star Trek would massacre any day, just look at your image!:jason:
Let's see what I have denied so far...
Turbolaser output: That book makes no sense what so ever must I explain further?:poke:
SW shields: Easily taken down by an asteroid.:D
:mufc:
[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1458780]Scott, the entire planetary surface most likely MELTED as the energy coursed thru it! That kind of heat output is IMMENSE! It WOULD glow white hot! The problem is, the pre-strike aldaraan and the during-strike aldaraan and the pre-explosion aldaraan are all EXACTLY the same size. Maybe a pixel difference here or there at MOST. But nothing to suggest a shield. Also, when ELSE in star wars have you seen the shields GLOW upon impact?
Finally, RSA's pictures SHOW some ejecta! Here, look!
[IMG]http://www.st-v-sw.net/images/Wars/Special/SF/DVD-Aldcrop/ANHDVD-Aldblow04sm.jpg[/IMG]
let us assume the planetary shield would be just outside the atmosphere (which can safely be assumed to be at LEAST a few HUNDRED miles (assuming Earths atmosphere for comparison) for the sake of safety reasons and for the sake of why would you basicly cut part of the atmosphere away?
Okay, here is RSA's comparison photos:
[IMG]http://www.st-v-sw.net/images/Wars/Special/SF/DVD-Aldcrop/ANHDVD-Aldbeamprehit00sm-bright25cont75-inversemask-watmos2.jpg[/IMG]
That is aldaraan at MAX BRIGHTNESS pre-strike. This is so you can see the absolute outer edge of the planet. He drew did colour correction to get the absolute boundaries, making it as accurate as possible. Then he drew a circle around it.
now, overlay that EXACT same picture with the aldaraan mid-strike (as it glows but BEFORE there is ejecta which could only occur AFTER it passes the shield and strikes the surface)
[IMG]http://www.st-v-sw.net/images/Wars/Special/SF/DVD-Aldcrop/ANHDVD-Aldblow02sm-wcirc.jpg[/IMG]
As you can see, it fits quite nicely inside said circle.
Thus, it is DEFINITIVELY not the shield that is aglow. It is the planet itself as first it's atmosphere ignites as the heat spreads thru it and then as the planet itself disintegrates and finally as it explodes.
Proven frame by frame on RSA's site. How you can say it is wrong or inaccurate is beyond me.[/QUOTE]
Quoting to be 100% sure scott sees this.