Star Wars vs Star Trek

[QUOTE=Enterprise-D;1446531]Rubbish. Where have you ever seen that? The only time a Queen was killed was in FC and STVOY: Endgame. In both instances, the entire Borg complex/ship/collective were poisoned (FC by a plasma cloud, STVOY by a neurovirus), so the Queen necessarily had to die with the rest of the drones.[/quote]

It was stated as such by Picard who would know after all he still has access to all the things he knew as locutos. Also several dozen of the borg were well outside of the plasma cloud when they died from queen death feedback.

[QUOTE]Given, however, this is the closest canon that shows that the Borg are immune to mind tricks. She has stated on screen that she cannot sense an individual mind to affect. If she can't how the hell can any telepath? YOU cannot assume that the Borg CAN be affected by a telepath just because [I]you think[/I] SW telepaths are superior. [/QUOTE]

Okay first of all you must remeber that Deanna is considered an extremely weak psychic. Second the Force is omnipresent where there is life. The borg are alive (barely) and if they are interconnected then they can be influenced as a single beeing as they do have no force of will.


[QUOTE]Sh*t, or else Obi Wan would have escaped his energy bonds that Lord Dukhu had him in on Episode 1. He had to wait to be rescued.[/QUOTE]

The man was being held by a pair of tractor beams spinning in a direction and manacled with cuff he could not see the controls of. Plus what was he going to do if he escaped? Better to wait for the cavalry he already called.

[QUOTE]Yes, they no longer affect the physical realm.[/QUOTE]

Wrong again Darth Bane, Exar Kun and others have had very real effects on the physical plane.

[QUOTE]And? 12 Trillion + 1 trillion is still trillions. Tuvok, Janeway and Paris (in rescuing Seven) discovered a SINGLE Borg complex with trillions of drones. Out of the entire Delta Quadrant.[/QUOTE]

Hello Coruscant has 12 trillion sentients minimum Unimatrix 1 and Unimatrix zero were the only complexes of their size and each had a population of one trillion hooked to their hub at any time. Which might very well mean 2 trillion borg

[QUOTE]Seven of Nine has used Borg modulations countless of times to enhance both Voyager and the Delta Flyer. In Season 5, they encountered a subspace phenomenon that generated 30 million terajoules of energy. To facilitate an exploration mission, Seven proceded to modify the Delta Flyer's shield via her Borg knowledge (as stated by her) to withstand the phenomenon. It stands to reason that the Borg have the capability (if not the reflex to know when to implement it...they have to lose a couple Cubes before they DO 'modulate' shields).[/QUOTE]

It may generate 30 million terrajoules but I will bet not even 200,000 gigajoules would hit the shields at any one time to even a vessel the size of the death star. Rememer that in virtually all natural phenomena energy is radiated in every direction no concentrated in one.

[QUOTE=Hellblade8;1446788]That would be too much. In the Die is Cast, assuming that the photons did even half the damage on screen, it would place them in the ranges of 14 million Megatons. Lowest yield (assuming the torps only did 10%) would be 24 thousand megatons, and the highest yield (assuming they did most of the damage) is closer to around 20 billion megatons.

Mind you, these are also likely their strongest yield torps. However, that is more than enough to obliterate an enemy ship. In actuallity, UFP ships carry several ships with a range of yields. Stronger ones can be used at greater ranges, and weaker ones at shorter ranges. Its also been speculated that more recent photons hold weaker firepower, but greater shield penetration abilities, allowing them to use weapons with weaker yields, but still blast past the shielding.[/QUOTE]


Listen dude Romulans and Cardassians do not use PHOTON torpedos. Just a fact. Romulans use Plasma and Cardassians use Ionic. And if these idiot were trying wipe out a planet they would have been using Tricolbalt torpedoes


Look if we go by script the lowest yeild is 25 tons, which is indisputable andmatches the use of 99% of all torpedoes. If we go by tech readout maximum possible yeild from the M/AM warhead is 64 megatons (check it out for yourself 1.5 kg of antimatter and matching matter. )

You can argue those facts all you like but it won't change them, and in fact offers a very realistic and intelligent variable weapon.

[QUOTE=Enterprise-D;1446921]
3. A single photon torpedo is capable of vaporizing a "normal size" asteroid (like the one used for those flaky SW calculations). This canon is seen in Voyager, S3...Janeway commits to helping a society from bombardment by asteroids. When they fire a single torpedo, Chakotay looks at the screen in consternation "That asteroid should have been vaporized". (It was not because it was artificial, it was armored inside and installed with guidance circuitry...an attack). Bear in mind that the artificial asteroid was still shattered.[/QUOTE]

Okay here is where it falls apart the asteroid was not armored, in fact it was made up of largely ovaline a brittle rock. Also while Chakotay was surprised about the LARGE chunk left behing Kim responded that their should have been no debris left larger than a centimeter. One centimeter debris is NOT vaporized by any stretch of the word.

Now you could argue that it was shield, but they why did sensors miss it.

You could argue that the ovaline threw off the calculation, but if that was true their should have been SMALLLER pieces as ovaline is more fragile than the iron they were expecting

Also why didn't sensors pick up that it was fake?

Okay, thanks to a little more research and stepping out form the latin and greek roots a bit I believe i have found the origin and correct spelling of ISOton.

[QUOTE]ISO, founded in 1947, is a worldwide federation of national standards bodies from some 100 countries, with one standards body representing each member country. The American National Standards Institute (ANSI), for example, represents the United States. Member organizations collaborate in the development and promotion of international standards. Among the standards the ISO fosters is Open Systems Interconnection (OSI), a universal reference model for communication protocols.
According to ISO, "ISO" is not an abbreviation. It is a word, derived from the Greek isos, meaning "equal", which is the root for the prefix "iso-" that occurs in a host of terms, such as "isometric" (of equal measure or dimensions) and "isonomy" (equality of laws, or of people before the law). The name ISO is used around the world to denote the organization, thus avoiding the assortment of abbreviations that would result from the translation of "International Organization for Standardization" into the different national languages of members. Whatever the country, the short form of the organization's name is always ISO.[/QUOTE]


Now there would be a Interplanetary version of the same thing in ST. Now some countries when they are communicating back and forth use ISO as a prefix to measurements in order to clearly identify if they are speaking local measure or standardized.

Now if we couple this with the dilemma of the photon torpedo, perhaps they have an exposive 3 million times more powerful than TNT that they are basing explosive potential off of (it would nearly match a 1.5 kg AM warhead)


This is just a theory, but perhaps one of the best ones yet.

[QUOTE=Hellblade8;1446372]Luke went one on one with two powerful Sith Lords and wasn't corrupted by the dark side. Furthermore, its a fact stated by Ben in Episode 4 where he says that the force can affect the weak minded. He said nothing about average or even strong minded people, just basic low intellect people. Try agian.[/quote]

Must have missed that part where he said it could not effect others, oh right it doesn't exist. Hell, Qui-Gon expected to be able to mind trick Watto, nad it was obvious he was no weak mind before he even tried it.


[QUOTE]Actually, it was the dark side blinding them if I remember correctly. Furthermore, there is no indication that a Sith Lord can hide his emotions, double so when they use it as their main source of power. [/QUOTE]

Darkside helped, but Sith have learned to hide their presence, google Jacen Solo and read the wookiepedia

[QUOTE]Yeah, lets ignore the fact that the captain has suddenly changed his orders, is acting strange, isn't responding to anything they say, and an unknown enemy ship is approaching. Yeah, nothing could possibly be up.[/QUOTE]

Yeah let's ignore the fact that somethime odd orders like this have saved their lives. Yeah let's ignore the fact that the other vessel has returned hail and made no threatening move. Let's ignore the fact that it's not yet an enemy vessel.


[QUOTE]Not without giving his securtiy voice code, something that Vader doesn't know. Also, its pretty funny that Vader never actually did this in the Hoth invasion. [/QUOTE]

Wonderful thing about implanted suggestion Picard would give the code himself.


[QUOTE]No, they where not firing plasma torps, or Tri-Cobalt devices.[/QUOTE]

Proof?

[QUOTE]No they couldn't. Even the Galaxy class carried no more than 250 torps at a time, max. Even assuming that many, the Enterprise wouldn't be able to do it wit 20 tons of TNT. And to add upon that, Bone's quote would suggest that the ship would have to do it in one sitting, basicly, they could not leave to get more ammo, or use more than the ships would be carrying. Given that phasers eventually run dry and they don't have an infinite number of torps, this would seem to counter your bull shit excuse.[/QUOTE]

I hate simple people look above for my now corrected scale. But also remeber that it took a whole Constitution class ship self destructing to create a 100 megaton weapon top kill the doomsday device. Recognize all the area that Photons were no more impressive than 2000 lb bombs.


[QUOTE]Excpet it also took out a one mile astroid, and anything else within those 800 kilometeres, the ship the crew was using just got a smidge of it and lost their warp matrix thanks to it.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE]You mean ignoring the fact that there was a creature there generating a shield over it? Furthermore, if we assume that a warpcore would act like that, why do we not see massive explosions when UFP ships with much larger warpcores explode whe hit with a photon? We have seen three explosions of a Galaxy with a Warp Core breach at least. Each time the explosion is much larger than when the ship was destroyed by any other cause. Or any other UFP ship for that matter. So no, there is no indication that the shuttle's warpcore had anything to do with the large explosion that we saw.[/QUOTE]

Not ignoring the creatures field weakened to the point of not being there when it was angry. One phont igniting a warp core fits right well.


[QUOTE]Proof that this was done by many explosives or by a very unusual torp?[/QUOTE]

Proof it wasn't?

[QUOTE]Given how vaporize is their slang term for their NDF effects of lasers, that isn't really true. And furthermore, Mr. Scott was not drunk, and no one dared to question that idea.[/QUOTE]

Vaporize would never be used in describing what happens to an atmosphere that is superheated especially by someone who deals with plasma every damn day. And if he was in command it meant the one guy who would correct him is off ship. It also means he was left with comm, helm, and navigation none of which would know to correct him.


[QUOTE]Or in more likelyhood, they put in a saftey feature so that the next time someone steals a phaser and sets it to overload, it doesn't take out an entire deck?[/QUOTE]

No, not likely or it would have been that way in TOS. They got gimped.

[QUOTE]Given that he was talking to UFP officers, I doubt it.[/QUOTE]

He was not talking to UFP officers. He thought he was talking to the people trying to break him.

[QUOTE]Oh, that much is granted, but they also rigged it up at the last minute to save their skins. So, they do have that level of firepower, which is now confirmed, thank you.[/QUOTE]

But have they done it since? No so they don't. Thank you one shots do not count

[QUOTE]That's funny, you apparently don't understand anything about Plasma Torps. A Plasma Torp is red, globby, and slow. But assuming this was changed in the last century, there is the little fact that Plasma torps cover the target and force an implosion. What we saw in The Die is Cast where explosions. Furthermore, there is no such thing as Ionic torps (just searched two Trek sites, got nothing, and I never heard of them). And there is no evidence that a Tri-Cobalt device was used, double so when Tri-Cobalts are made up of three seperate pieces and are white. What we saw where single yellow and green balls of light. [/QUOTE]

Well Photons are RED or ORANGE. Plasma torpedoes come in a variety of colors as do Tri-Colbalt devices, Photns however are ALWAYS red or orange. So you just disproved them being Photons.

Also note as they knew this would be a planetary assualt they would have had special munitions made.

[QUOTE]No it doesn't, and we aren't using the max here buddy, you have to use the averare, and the average small town isn't that big.[/QUOTE]

That is the average in SW.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1447347]Listen dude Romulans and Cardassians do not use PHOTON torpedos. Just a fact. Romulans use Plasma and Cardassians use Ionic. And if these idiot were trying wipe out a planet they would have been using Tricolbalt torpedoes.[/QUOTE]

Anti-matter, even a small amount, would do the trick. If they REALLY were using Photon Torpedos (and they do use them), one or two would do the trick-- no need for dozens of shots like we were shown in the episode.

(Quote from [url=]Memory Alpha[/url] on the Romulan D'deridex Class Warbird: [i][url=http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/D%27deridex_class]Interestingly, the primary weapons array has fired both constant and "pulsed" disruptor beams (as well as the occasional torpedo). It is unknown if the disruptor types used were the type-3 disruptors mentioned in Star Trek Generations. On occasion, Starfleet officers have identified the ship's weapons as phasers. Photon torpedoes have been mentioned as being part of a Warbirds' armament, as have plasma torpedoes, (DS9: "Image in the Sand") a weapon originally used in TOS: "Balance of Terror"[/url][/i]).

Warbirds use Photorps.

~String

[QUOTE=superstring99;1447402]Anti-matter, even a small amount, would do the trick. If they REALLY were using Photon Torpedos (and they do use them), one or two would do the trick-- no need for dozens of shots like we were shown in the episode.

(Quote from [url=]Memory Alpha[/url] on the Romulan D'deridex Class Warbird: [i][url=http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/D%27deridex_class]Interestingly, the primary weapons array has fired both constant and "pulsed" disruptor beams (as well as the occasional torpedo). It is unknown if the disruptor types used were the type-3 disruptors mentioned in Star Trek Generations. On occasion, Starfleet officers have identified the ship's weapons as phasers. Photon torpedoes have been mentioned as being part of a Warbirds' armament, as have plasma torpedoes, (DS9: "Image in the Sand") a weapon originally used in TOS: "Balance of Terror"[/url][/i]).

Warbirds use Photorps.

~String[/QUOTE]

D'deridex have been said to have Photons torpedoes, but never seen. Remember the Romulans are huge are trickery and misdirection.

Actually they would still need massive amount of Antimatter 1.5 kilo produces roughly 64 megatons.

Of course if they were smart just containment fields of anitmatter could be fired railgun style with just enough power to get to the ground. Would be worthless against shields but kick ass against unshielded planets.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1447397]Must have missed that part where he said it could not effect others, oh right it doesn't exist. Hell, Qui-Gon expected to be able to mind trick Watto, nad it was obvious he was no weak mind before he even tried it.[/QUOTE]

Ah, then why didn't it work? You see, if he expected it to work, that means he was confident in his ability to affect non-weak minded people. Seeing as this apparently fails as we have no indication either way of Watto having an exceptionally strong mind, it would seem more likely that he underestimated Watto rather than Watto being some strong defense against the Jedi mind tricks.

And by the way, when Ben said it had the ability to affect the weak minded, he was talking about weak minded. That would be like me saying that only males are born with dicks, but you claiming that women can be born with them too on the account that I never said it couldn't be possible.


[QUOTE]Darkside helped, but Sith have learned to hide their presence, google Jacen Solo and read the wookiepedia[/QUOTE]

Ah...no?

[QUOTE]Yeah let's ignore the fact that somethime odd orders like this have saved their lives. Yeah let's ignore the fact that the other vessel has returned hail and made no threatening move. Let's ignore the fact that it's not yet an enemy vessel.[/QUOTE]

Really? Name three. Name three times when Picard gave some shit weird order out of the blue with someone they just met that might pose a tactical threat to them. Oh, and by the way, said ship is also armed to the teeth and briming with fighters. Yeah, nothing could possibly be wrong with this picture.


[QUOTE]Wonderful thing about implanted suggestion Picard would give the code himself.[/QUOTE]

Interesting, too bad you must now give evidence that Picard can do that. You see, this reminds me of the episode when Picard was kidnapped and impersonated by an imposter who had all of his memories. Picard acted a bit strange, but nothing that was too strange. Then he orders them to go to a nearby star and to get closer. This star was supposedly some type of strange star that was supposed to be dangerous to get close to. When the imposter tried to get the others to obey, he didn't once try to use the ship to override them and go into the star. Given that he had all of Picard's memories, he would have known to do that if it was possible. In all likelyhood, this was done so as to prevent dangers such as these.

Also, even if he could override it with voice code, two senior officers (including the first officer) can overrule him. Also, wouldn't Vader have to know that Picard is there in order to use it? Picard is a void in the force, you can't target him with a Jedi Mind Trick. That, and just how far can the Jedi Mind trick work?

So lets see here:

1) Can only affect weak minded people with the force, seeing as Picard is not in any way weak, this will not affect him.

2) Picard is not part of the force, thus he cannot be affected by it.

3) The crew will not let Picard put them in a dangerouse position.

4) You have yet to confirm the range of the Jedi Mind Trick.


[QUOTE]Proof?[/QUOTE]

You mean ignoring the fact that Plasma Torps are clear and red? Or the fact that the explosions should have been implosions? Huh, kinda sounds like they aren't plasma torps.



[QUOTE]I hate simple people look above for my now corrected scale. But also remeber that it took a whole Constitution class ship self destructing to create a 100 megaton weapon top kill the doomsday device. Recognize all the area that Photons were no more impressive than 2000 lb bombs.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. How about the fact that a photon torp might have been destroyed before it could deliver its payload? Keep in mind that the Constitution was much larger. And why couldn't it produce something bigger than that? Well, likely because it had just gotten its ass kicked around.


[QUOTE]Not ignoring the creatures field weakened to the point of not being there when it was angry. One phont igniting a warp core fits right well.[/QUOTE]

Not really, the shield was weak yes, but its still a shield, and the crew was just barely able to do that so they could beam Troi out. The shield would have likely still been there upon impact, thus it would have already given its payload before it hit the shuttle. And again, when a ship is destroyed via a photon, we do not see a larger explosion, but in fact a very tame explosion compared to the warp core breach that we see. So it would seem that there was some sort of saftey feature.


[QUOTE]Proof it wasn't?[/QUOTE]

The fact that they never mention it being one. If you want to suggest otherwise, please put out proof.

[QUOTE]Vaporize would never be used in describing what happens to an atmosphere that is superheated especially by someone who deals with plasma every damn day. And if he was in command it meant the one guy who would correct him is off ship. It also means he was left with comm, helm, and navigation none of which would know to correct him.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. You see, the cast has often used the vaporizing to describe the effects of phasers and disruptors. This does not match what we see. And unless everyone on the bridge failed basic science along with Mr. Scott, I would think that this would be fairly odd for them to hear. Double so since Sulu often fires weapons as well, or works with them, depending upon the episode.

[QUOTE]No, not likely or it would have been that way in TOS. They got gimped.[/QUOTE]

Untrue. We have clear evidence that TOS phasers would take out an entire deck. We also know that the modern phasers are more powerful than the older ones. This is canon fact. Given how advanced phasers are, its not unlikely that the UFP decided to add in saftey features, or anyone for that matter. In fact, we see that the UFP has back ups for its own back up systems.

[QUOTE]He was not talking to UFP officers. He thought he was talking to the people trying to break him.[/QUOTE]

Oh, that's right. However, it hardly seems he was bluffing...since he fired the phaser afterwards.

Oh, and here is something else for phaser firepower:

[QUOTE]Riker : 'Data, tell me about nuranium. It vaporises at?'
Data : 'Two thousand three hundred and fourteen degrees sir. Of course, nuranium carbi-'
Riker : 'Thank you Data.'
Geordi : 'Setting seven ought to do it.' [/QUOTE]

Phasers go up to setting 16.

[QUOTE]But have they done it since? No so they don't. Thank you one shots do not count[/QUOTE]

The Die is Cast.

[QUOTE]Well Photons are RED or ORANGE. Plasma torpedoes come in a variety of colors as do Tri-Colbalt devices, Photns however are ALWAYS red or orange. So you just disproved them being Photons.[/QUOTE]

No they don't. Photons are red and orange because that's what the Federation uses. Klingons also use photon torps and their torps are green too. So, actually, it being green has nothing to do with it. And since when did Tri-Cobalts come in a varity of colors? So no, rather you just proved yourself to be an idiot, ignoring the fact that we never seen these weapons dealing implosions, which they would if they where plasma torps. Instead, we saw explosions.

[QUOTE]Also note as they knew this would be a planetary assualt they would have had special munitions made.[/QUOTE]

Prove it.

[QUOTE]That is the average in SW.[/QUOTE]

Wrong, Lucas is painting a scene for the reader, he made no mention to any character or person having these thoughts, so you can't place it to EU towns. Lucas is addressing the reader, and thus that means he is trying to connect with them in a way that they can relate. Otherwise, he could have just as easily placed a mathmatical yield there. But he didn't because he is trying to relate to the reader. The reader knows what a small town is.

:poke: About not being affected by the force well Vong could be affected by it and they came from a diffrent galaxy Force lightning fried them ^_^ oh and to say somthing isnt part of the force because it isnt from the SW galaxy seems like a bold statment in the fact that vong were still in the force just as their slave race, Jacen Solo found this out in Traitor and the fact that we still dont know everything about human geans means that we could still have midiclorions.

And I think what Obi ment when he said weakminded he ment less than a jedi, just a thought

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1447347]Listen dude Romulans and Cardassians do not use PHOTON torpedos. Just a fact. Romulans use Plasma and Cardassians use Ionic. And if these idiot were trying wipe out a planet they would have been using Tricolbalt torpedoes[/QUOTE]

Wrong again. Plasma torps are clear blobs of red, as seen here:

[URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/1696/gromattack2th5.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Furthermore, none of these ships have ever been observed to fire a weapon that covers the target and forces an implosion. Never once on screen since then. With no evidence pointing directly to these weapons as being plasma based, you have nothing to stand on.

And by the way, [URL="http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/library/ships/DS9/article/70407.html"]here[/URL] is a link to Star Trek.com of a Cardassian ship armed with photons, I checked for the other Cardassian ships, but no mention was made for Ionic torps.


[QUOTE]Look if we go by script the lowest yeild is 25 tons, which is indisputable andmatches the use of 99% of all torpedoes. If we go by tech readout maximum possible yeild from the M/AM warhead is 64 megatons (check it out for yourself 1.5 kg of antimatter and matching matter. )[/QUOTE]

Interesting, going by the script, hand held weapons that fit in the palm of my hand can destroy half a building and vaporise man sized targets without it roasting the person next to them...cool. Oh, and by the way, in the episode where Odo got sick in DS9, the Defiant was taken to the new Founder Homeworld, surronded by a large fleet of Jem'Hadar ships. To top it all off, we get a great quote where the Cardassian spy is trying to tap into the Defiant's weapon system. When Worf catches him and demands why he would try to do it given that the others are still on the planet. The Cardassian explains that the Defiant has enough firepower to turn the Founder homeworld into a burning cinder in space, and that after what the Jem'Hadar see what happened, they will kill them.

Funny, I thought you just said that they had very little firepower just now...

[QUOTE]You can argue those facts all you like but it won't change them, and in fact offers a very realistic and intelligent variable weapon.[/QUOTE]

Done putting forth bullshit?

[QUOTE=Fettman;1447424]And I think what Obi ment when he said weakminded he ment less than a jedi, just a thought[/QUOTE]

ERxcept than that would have to make Jabba the Hutt a Jedi.

Well plasma is diffrent colors depending on the heat, red would be one of the lowest and weakest of plasma

[QUOTE=Fettman;1447422]:poke: About not being affected by the force well Vong could be affected by it and they came from a diffrent galaxy Force lightning fried them ^_^ oh and to say somthing isnt part of the force because it isnt from the SW galaxy seems like a bold statment in the fact that vong were still in the force just as their slave race, Jacen Solo found this out in Traitor and the fact that we still dont know everything about human geans means that we could still have midiclorions.[/QUOTE]

Again, no. Its just some shit that Lucas made up. If you claim that we have something that was made up, then you better prove it. I can prove it on the account that there is no such thing mentioned and Star Trek comes from another reality, and thus are not part of the force. The Vong, though they come from another galaxy, are part of the same universe.

No because he couldnt use the force just because he has a strong will dosnt make him a jedi

Are you a Rabid?

Nvm I think you are.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1447354]Okay here is where it falls apart the asteroid was not armored, in fact it was made up of largely ovaline a brittle rock. Also while Chakotay was surprised about the LARGE chunk left behing Kim responded that their should have been no debris left larger than a centimeter. One centimeter debris is NOT vaporized by any stretch of the word.[/QUOTE]

It apparently was armored since it was supposed to be vaporized as Chakotay himself said ( A starfleet officer, even before he became a terrorist) it should be, and was surprised that it wasn't. Apparently, he too noticed that something was wrong with that picture.

[QUOTE]Now you could argue that it was shield, but they why did sensors miss it.[/QUOTE]

Armor doesn't have to be apparent to be there. In fact, given that they where built to look like normal astroids, this would seem kind of like a duh.

[QUOTE]You could argue that the ovaline threw off the calculation, but if that was true their should have been SMALLLER pieces as ovaline is more fragile than the iron they were expecting[/QUOTE]

Or that the weapons where made to look like astroids.
[QUOTE]
Also why didn't sensors pick up that it was fake?[/QUOTE]

Again, this was an attack by another group that was making them look like astroids, it doesn't help if you don't try to fool these people in the sensor department if they are just going to scan it.

And nano what ever they are called (borg things that assmilate) they are just made up so they may not have any affect on SW or (necrons)

And if you ask for proof I cant give it.