Star Wars vs Star Trek

[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1394643]TWScott
What evidence do you HAVE that the ISDs shoot at 12.5 Gigatons?
The ICS books are BOGUS.[/quote]

Excuse me, Idiot, but the ICS books are specificcally mentioned as part of the Canon hierarchy. You may piss and moan all you want, but it does not change the facts. The Book does not directly dispute on this so it it is indeed canon on this.

[QUOTE]What is your argument against how the videogames made by [B]LUCASARTS themselves [/B] contradict every statement about the strength of the lasers...[/QUOTE]

Even if the games were canon (they are specifically excluded) they would be lumped wit Other products and thus sit below Novels and technical readouts, meaning that the Novel or Technical readout would trump the games.


[quote]ST shields are [B]IMPERVIOUS [/B]to lasers as said by [B]TV SHOWS.[/B] Not children's books which were written to impress children...[/QUOTE]

Actually Picard statement was only referring to the ship in front of them. Which had only Kilowatt level lasers.


You will also note that Turbolasers is just the weapon name, the weapon sdoes not seem to act like any conventional laser.

As for you childish attemtp at a strawman, Lucas himself chose Saxton to write the ICS and even okayed the numbers. So pack it up Idiot.


Oh in case you did not notice your new title is Idiot, enjoy it.

conventional ST weapons a side what about pulse phasers,(Defiant) phaser cannons (All good Things Enterprise D) the phaser cannon split a futuristic Klingon ship in like 3 shots with the klingon shields being up. This weapon was later equipped on the galaxy class that was refit during the Dominion War with 3 warp nacells. (which is 20 times as powerful as phasers on a galaxy class). Combine that with the fact that star wars capital ships can only shoot about 5000 kilometers away and star trek ships can shoot nearly 200,000 kilometers away i'd say that would make for some recycled star destroyers. (Like the Empire could replace these vessels with any speed due to their size.)

[QUOTE=Admiral Lee;1394657]Dude, I really need your source material for x wings having shields. Even if they do they cant be more advanced than federation shields when ST weapons have surpassed laser technology before the Enterprise Series Era. Going by that Federation shields would be unaffected by lasers, Star Wars uses Lasers, so if the federation shield and weapon technology is superior then why wouldn't their shield generators be superior?:bugeye:[/QUOTE]

ANH, ESB, ROTJ, all novels, ICS and so on. You are reminding of another Lee who lost a war becuase he couldn't understand Coriolis(sp?) (The mathmatics that explains how the earth moves from underneath rifle and cannon shot.)

Okay the Fed uses ships whose deflectors can resist a set of Kilowatt lasers all day long. That is reasonable and expected from a ship who power core produces 12 billion gigawatts. It's much like Kevlar stopping a .22LR. Now you wouldn't assume that a Kevlar vest would protect against a 12 inch shell would you? Sure it is similiar technology, but one is millions of times more powerful. That is what is happening here.


A shisps shields cannot hope to repel a blast that is 600 times what the ship can produce. It's not possible.

[QUOTE=Admiral Lee;1394674]conventional ST weapons a side what about pulse phasers,(Defiant) phaser cannons (All good Things Enterprise D) the phaser cannon split a futuristic Klingon ship in like 3 shots with the klingon shields being up. This weapon was later equipped on the galaxy class that was refit during the Dominion War with 3 warp nacells. (which is 20 times as powerful as phasers on a galaxy class). Combine that with the fact that star wars capital ships can only shoot about 5000 kilometers away and star trek ships can shoot nearly 200,000 kilometers away i'd say that would make for some recycled star destroyers. (Like the Empire could replace these vessels with any speed due to their size.)[/QUOTE]

So, an upgrade of 2000% on phasers means they are still only about 1.4 kilotons each. That is a third of a Thermal Detonator. The Pulse phaser in question would still be too weak to even strain the shields of a X-wing fighter, let alone and ISD.

Besides you won't be dancing at 200,000 km when we are raising your planet, will you?

I doubt a federation galaxy class would get 5000 kilometers when they can pound a runabout at 200,000.LOL So whats the range on the Death Stars hopped up laser pointer? I would hope it would be further than their capital ships. And, about the Lee comment, that was low. Your the one supporting an inferior side but I was going to hold back on saying it. And how many Death Stars were actually built? (1 and 1/2) and both exploded. Thats pretty sad that a fighter or small frigate can take out the best space station the Empire has to offer. If thats the case the empire better watch out, cause there might be a few Maquis cells around that would give em a run for their money. :D

[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1394654]how do you know that R2 stopped the vaporization? The controls were 100% manual. R2 had no control over the weapons since Anakin asked R2 to do something and all R2 did was beep and then Anakin switched to manual and destroyed the Driodekas...[/quote]

Anakin asked which one the trigger was, R2 said he had no clue. So Anakin found the controls. We assume R2 powered down the shots be cuase we saw the other naboo fighters producing much more spectacular effect with their lasers. It's not a terrible assumption. In fact it fits with other facts. Hell Anakin could have turned them down as well.

[QUOTE]The fighters have less than even a ton of TNT damage.
That means that the [B]MOVIE [/B][B]contradicts [/B]the book, and in your "hierarchy of canon", that [B]invalidates [/B]the weapons strength that you have been "defending".[/QUOTE]

Now, I know you are another idiot. We saw the other fighters producing megaton level effects against the Vulture droids and the Droid control ship.


[QUOTE]The Peregrine's weapons are FAR superior to the Royal Naboo's Air Foce, which has [B]some of the best fighters[/B] in the galaxy as stated by many books. If the BEST ships were so weak...[/QUOTE]

They were the best of that era, the AOTC and Rebellion altered that in a quick hurry. Besides as mentioned above. The Naboo lasers were having megaton level effect against enemy aircraft.



[QUOTE]Plus, when Anakin shot up the Trade Federation reactor, the initial explosion was [B]SMALL[/B]. The chain-reaction was the thing that destroyed the control-ship.[/QUOTE]

Okay, so a pair of Torpedos hiting a shielded reactor only cuased a slwo moving explosion. Now C4 is 4 times more powerful than TNT, but it's blast radius is much smaller. Given the nature of the weapon could it be possible it is a shape charged device. Also notice that the SW uses hypermatter reactors it's just as likely the explosion was small as it was being sucked into the mass of the hypermatter then convertering it into a white hole.



[quote]Your entire argument depends on the ISDs having 12.5 gigatons/ shot, and that "fact" has been DISPROVED YET AGAIN.[/QUOTE]

You haven't disproved anythuing except your intelligence. Even if you proved a naboo fighter had low firepower (and you did not) that proves nothing about star destroyers.

[QUOTE=Admiral Lee;1394704]I doubt a federation galaxy class would get 5000 kilometers when they can pound a runabout at 200,000.LOL So whats the range on the Death Stars hopped up laser pointer? I would hope it would be further than their capital ships. And, about the Lee comment, that was low. Your the one supporting an inferior side but I was going to hold back on saying it. And how many Death Stars were actually built? (1 and 1/2) and both exploded. Thats pretty sad that a fighter or small frigate can take out the best space station the Empire has to offer. If thats the case the empire better watch out, cause there might be a few Maquis cells around that would give em a run for their money. :D[/QUOTE]

Hey, just pointing out the obvious. Not only are you backing the wrong horse, you're deliberately ignorant of it.

First of all we know ST weaponry for the most part is sub 400 gigawats. That is less than 100 tons of dynamite. Yeah you read that right. How is .1 kiloton weaponry going to effect a shield that can take multiple 12.5 gigaton level hits before dropping?

As the Deathstars were only taken out do to technical fluke on the first and poor planning on the second, your point is moot. If the DS2 had been completed it would have had NO weaknesses.

Thats funny, no weaknesses for the Death Star. Lets see here, one transphasic torpedo launched at over 5000 kilometers away that was targeted at the Core of Death Star= ALOT OF VAPORIZED PLASTIC MEN AND HOODED OLD PEOPLE. :p

According to Memory Alpha it would take 90 photon torpedoes impacting Kirks Enterprise at once to lower the shields.(TOS the Changeling) One photon torpedo has about 200 megatons of force. So 200x90= 1800 megatons of force to lower the shields on a constitution class starship in Kirks era. hmm lets compare figures.

You know what Scott?
The Federation weaponry can destroy all the universe. They tone down the weapons...
On a more serious note.
When fighers in SW are destroyed, they should completely and utterly disintegrated by the multi-gigaton weaponry, right?
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuwz2yhk18A[/url]
THE FIGHTERS BREAK INTO SMALL PIECES.
A multi-gigaton blast doesnt even vaporize the fighters...
Look at 4:16 The proton torpedo blasts do VERY LITTLE DAMAGE.
NOT NEARLY IN THE MEGATON RANGE... not even KILOTON and much less, gigaton.
The pieces of the reactor fall apart. Not disintegrate. No material, no matter whatsoever can withstand multi-gigaton blasts point-blank. Even durasteel or whatever that is made of.

[QUOTE=Admiral Lee;1394732]Thats funny, no weaknesses for the Death Star. Lets see here, one transphasic torpedo launched at over 5000 kilometers away that was targeted at the Core of Death Star= ALOT OF VAPORIZED PLASTIC MEN AND HOODED OLD PEOPLE. :p[/QUOTE]

Actually in all probability just an impact on the shields that is just a pin prick of light. Followed by Earth being blown apart violently and the return hail of Heavy Turbolasers, Ion Canons, Proton Torpedoes, and Concussion missles.

[QUOTE=Admiral Lee;1394739]According to Memory Alpha it would take 90 photon torpedoes impacting Kirks Enterprise at once to lower the shields.(TOS the Changeling) One photon torpedo has about 200 megatons of force. So 200x90= 1800 megatons of force to lower the shields on a constitution class starship in Kirks era. hmm lets compare figures.[/QUOTE]

Well sorry but the 400 gigawatt blast for The Survivors is canon and Memory Alpha is not. Suck it up. Byt the way if that was true it would have taken one Photon Torpedo to destroy the Doomsday machine instead of self destructing a whole Constitution class starship

[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1394740]You know what Scott?
The Federation weaponry can destroy all the universe. They tone down the weapons...[/quote]

Alright Idiot, if they can do that why do they have problmes with the Borg. I mean obviously the Borg has not met a race yet capable of destroying the universe, so the Feds should have NO PROBLEMS against the collective if what you say is true.



[QUOTE]On a more serious note.
When fighers in SW are destroyed, they should completely and utterly disintegrated by the multi-gigaton weaponry, right?
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuwz2yhk18A[/url][/QUOTE]

Why would that be true? if the hull is strong enough then there could easily be chunks left. Duraarmor does contain neutronium


[QUOTE]THE FIGHTERS BREAK INTO SMALL PIECES.
A multi-gigaton blast doesnt even vaporize the fighters...[/QUOTE]

Explained above idiot.





[quote]Look at 4:16 The proton torpedo blasts do VERY LITTLE DAMAGE.
NOT NEARLY IN THE MEGATON RANGE... not even KILOTON and much less, gigaton.
The pieces of the reactor fall apart. Not disintegrate. No material, no matter whatsoever can withstand multi-gigaton blasts point-blank. Even durasteel or whatever that is made of.[/QUOTE]

Actually lot of matter can survive gigaton level effects, look at the Yucatan pennisula. You're just a sloppy scientist, Idiot. That's all.

[QUOTE=Admiral Lee;1394739]According to Memory Alpha it would take 90 photon torpedoes impacting Kirks Enterprise at once to lower the shields.(TOS the Changeling) One photon torpedo has about 200 megatons of force. So 200x90= 1800 megatons of force to lower the shields on a constitution class starship in Kirks era. hmm lets compare figures.[/QUOTE]

Great idea!
from Memory Alpha itself
"Spock mentions that Nomad's first attack on the Enterprise was the equivalent of 90 photon torpedoes. Surprisingly, this attack only reduced the shields to 20%."
Thus, it would take over 450 photon torpedos, meaning 90,000 Megatons to take down a constitution class ship. The Galaxy class ship? Or the Borg Cube? That means its 8 salvos to take down a borg cube if you SOMEHOW say that your 12.5 Gigatons are right. If there are thousands of borg cubes with 64,000 borg per cube, nothing can possible withstand it... NOTHING. After assimilating one ISD, the Borg will adapt their weaponry to fight with the "superior" power. Plus, Coruscant would be so valued after by the Borg...

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1394748]
Actually lot of matter can survive Megaton level effects. You're just a sloppy scientist, Idiot. That's all.[/QUOTE]

Oh yes. Matter in blocks of 2 meters x 2 meters x 2 meters...
You know very well that thats impossible....
Why dont you just give up?

[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1394753]Oh yes. Matter in blocks of 2 meters x 2 meters x 2 meters...
You know very well that thats impossible....
Why dont you just give up?[/QUOTE]

Why not? A diamond could certianly survive a gigaton level effect. Now given a material that makes a diamond look fragile and has energy absorbing nuetronium in it as well as a melting ppoint that could easily survive in the corona of Sol and you have a material that would be only blow apart by gigaton level weaponry. It is certianly possible, Idiot, especially in Sci Fi

[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1394751]Great idea!
from Memory Alpha itself
"Spock mentions that Nomad's first attack on the Enterprise was the equivalent of 90 photon torpedoes. Surprisingly, this attack only reduced the shields to 20%."
Thus, it would take over 450 photon torpedos, meaning 90,000 Megatons to take down a constitution class ship. The Galaxy class ship? Or the Borg Cube? That means its 8 salvos to take down a borg cube if you SOMEHOW say that your 12.5 Gigatons are right. If there are thousands of borg cubes with 64,000 borg per cube, nothing can possible withstand it... NOTHING. After assimilating one ISD, the Borg will adapt their weaponry to fight with the "superior" power. Plus, Coruscant would be so valued after by the Borg...[/QUOTE]

Hey, idiot, obviously you missed the whole Doomsday device thing. One Photon Toprpedo could not possibly be 200 megatons. Why? Becuase they figured it would take only 100 megatons to destroy the Doomsday device. If the Photon Torpedo was 200 megatons one would have done the job. As it was they had to self destruct a whole Constitution class starship to destroy the Doomsday device.


Second point to correct your math, Idiot. The first blast of ninety reduced the shields to 20% not by 20%. The first blast destrouyed 80% of the shields.

Third point given that we know that 400 gigwatts can drop the shield of a GCS and that twenty four vessels (most of them weaker than a GCS) can take on a Borg cube and win, then obviously the Borg are goign to have no effect against a ship capable of taking multiple 200 gigaton+ slavos.

[QUOTE=Admiral Lee;1394583]So your telling me that a fighter is going to have a higher capacity for shield generators than a Federation Capitol Ship! Where did you get this information from? An ambassador class has multiple shield generators and if Star Wars had shields (from the movies) how are the fighters able to get so close to hull of the star destroyers without lighting up like a fly in a bug zapper? Please give me a list of your source material.:wtf:[/QUOTE]
There is a episode in ST where there is a small vessel attached without them knowing it, dude the scoundred even borded. I don't know if it was to assasinate or sabotage though.

[QUOTE=FoolFromHell;1394656]Where in the movie did the Death Star have shields?
If it didnt in the movie, it doesnt in the book.
Why didnt the Death Star in EP IV use its personal shield instead of the Endor shield if its "fully operational"?[/QUOTE]

dude watch the movie correctly it was a setup of palpatine.
BTW the deathstar wasn't finished but FULLY OPERATIONAL.

The whole idea was to serepate Luke from his friends. By slaghtering his friends turning him to the darkside. If vader wouldn't finish off the Emperor but luke the alliance woudn't stand a chance. Butt hey a movie must have a good ending. :D

BTW this fight over shields and weaponry is getting boring. face it no one is gonna back up. Do you know what i'm thinking about if those universes collide.

zevenofnine in lea's slave outfitt mmmmmmmmmmmm:D

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1394664]

As for you childish attemtp at a strawman, Lucas himself chose Saxton to write the ICS and even okayed the numbers. So pack it up Idiot.


.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if this is true:shrug: so TW Scott if you can prove that Lucas okayed then you prove that this book is canon.:cool: Just give them te proof and we can rest this thing.:D