Star Wars vs Star Trek

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1383871]Only one Ocampa displayed levels of power anywhere even near Jedi levels and and she is now dead.[/QUOTE]

Only one Ocampa displayed the levels of power, does not mean that other Ocampa cannot reach such power.




[QUOTE]The Vulcans broke up the Stone of Gol and hid the componenets again. The Stone would be no help against a Jedi and honestly Darksiders would probably simply over power it. Besides the Vulcans by choice are Logical, they would look at the invaders conclude that Federation victory is statistically as likely as proving that Jello can be sentient and simply negotiate a surrender with favorable terms.[/QUOTE]

The Vulcans would only surrender if the Federation and Starfleet surrendered, besides, the Vulcans aren't stupid enough to not know where they stored the pieces of the stone.



[QUOTE]Okay noted ST has Fighter level Ion Cannons, not gonna be much help against Capital ships. Besides the weapons worked by using the ships shield harmonics against it, so it is whole unlikely to work against SW vessels.[/QUOTE]

Where has it been stated that Breen Energy Dissipators are Ion Cannons, and where does it say that it works against shield harmonics? Sources please. The only think I know about is that it drains power from Shields, Engines, Weapons, and other vital systems.

[QUOTE]Actually there are other ways of boarding. The are called Assault shuttles. They fly up to the hull and literally drill and entrance. Not to mention that SW has powersuited storm troopers. Something ST doesn't even have a clue of. Yeah go ahead vent the air, a Space Trooper won't even notice. Go ahead put a force field in the way he'll cut through the bulkhead.....[/QUOTE]

Wont notice when it gets sucked out into space? Shuttlecraft can be programed to power thier thrusters and stay in place. And are you sure that they have no clue about those? Haven't you watched First Contact where Picard, Worf and Hawk were in EVA suits?

[QUOTE]Oh and SW has the answer to Klingons they are called Wookies, Noghri, Rodians, and Gamoreans. Wookies and Gamoreans are both immensely strong and extremely tough. Noghri are super martial artists and Rodians are just hunters by nature. There are also other race quite capable of turning the above average Klingon into goo.[/QUOTE]

Well first of all, Klingons don't just fight hand to hand, they have disruptors too.


[QUOTE]If this was possible it would have been done in Nemesis. Neither ship proved capable and they did have the best crews around. Furthermore how is the target ship going to be capable of such a feat when she has been literally shot apart or shorted out?[QUOTE]

It is possible, but not through Deflector shield systems.



[QUOTE=TW Scott;1383871]Phasers often miss, both with hand and ship models. But it doesn't matter anyway as Ship phasers could not pierce the shield of the Typical fighter, TIE are an exception as they have no Ray shields.[/QUOTE]

The only time I've really seen a phaser miss is in Nemisis where Worf was ordered to fire a full spread, 0 elevation to find where the scimitar was.


[QUOTE]Again false information. The Dominion war showed they are not capable of such operations in any extended fashion. They do have ground troops, pitiful excuses for ground troops but they did have to use them. Besides by the time it comes for ground combat the ST navy will be anhilated anyway[/QUOTE]
Two words, expendable troops.
Three more words, Stormtroopers can't Aim.

[QUOTE]The point is that in a war situation ST does not stand a chance of winning. It just doesn't. It would be like taking a 11th century knight on horse back versus a modern day M1A1 with a vetran crew. Yes the knight is the best of the best of his day, but he would technologically, tactically and strategically out matched.[/QUOTE]

That doesn't make a single bit of sense, Are you saying that Star Trek has outdated technology, because Star Wars is still using Laser based weaponry, while Star Trek is using Directed phased energy bursts, and disruptors.

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1382308]Gravimetrics are a primary source of sensor readings for Trek ships. Does that mean your cloaks are useless? You just said it does! Move along. NEXT![/QUOTE]

Bullshit again, or they wouldn't lose so many ships in magnetic poles. Besides ST has to perform special gravimetric scans when they want any detail. Also Gravimetric sensors are used by EVERY SW ship and are able to detect miniscule gravity fluctuation from light years away. The special ones that can detect cloaksed ships are even more fine tuned. From the description they probably scan an an entire area constantly and watch for sudden or persistant indiscrepencies. it's not like they just go. "Oh that empty area of space is exerting gravity." but more like "The gravity signature of that area of space has changed in the last minute and here is a map of the areas where the gravity signature made similiar changes and their progression."

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1383876]Ever notice that the six inch thick transparasteel window sits in the middle of a one meter thick hull? Hell you can see the thickness of the Hull in several episodes of ST and it is only 8 inches on the Enterprise-D! So the windows on the normally well shielded and well protected Executor are 3/4 as thick as the Hull of Federation ships, seems to me that you are not so good yourself my friend.


Oh and thwerwe is a reason for only 6 inch thick transparasteel widows, beyound that you would get distortions. Not good when you are using your eyeballs to suplement scanners. Then again ST can't even do that, if Scanners are tricked they would not know untill too late.[/QUOTE]

Yes, 8 inches on an EXPLORATION vessel.

A ship like the Enterprise-E has 8 inches of pure ARMOR, much less hull and reinforced bulkheads!

Star Trek doesn't even USE windows- realtime video feed for the win.

Basicly, what you are saying is I would need simply to teleport a high-kinetic energy projectile past your shields in front of your bridge. Okay, done. Kiss your entire fleet goodbye as we used cloaked mass-transport ships (ala Insurection) to take out your ships using this weakness.

[QUOTE=Sumoben;1383905]Only one Ocampa displayed the levels of power, does not mean that other Ocampa cannot reach such power.[/quote]

But one reaching that level of power does not mean other will. Wesley Crusher can bend space and time, but can every human do that? No.



[QUOTE]The Vulcans would only surrender if the Federation and Starfleet surrendered, besides, the Vulcans aren't stupid enough to not know where they stored the pieces of the stone.[/QUOTE]

The Vulcans hid it on themselves before. It isn't that they are stupid it is that they are smart enough to make it impossible to reassemble. Also the Vulcans are EXTREMELY logical. If they deduced that their best chance of survival was surrender they would do so. They have no pride to get in their way.


[QUOTE]Where has it been stated that Breen Energy Dissipators are Ion Cannons, and where does it say that it works against shield harmonics? Sources please. The only think I know about is that it drains power from Shields, Engines, Weapons, and other vital systems. [/QUOTE]

Actually Starfleet figured out a new set of Shield harmonics that did nuetralized the Breen weapon entirely. This suggest the weapon used the harmonics as a method of draining the power. As for the statement regarding Ion Cannons, I was merely trying to make them more useful to ST side.


[QUOTE]Wont notice when it gets sucked out into space? Shuttlecraft can be programed to power thier thrusters and stay in place. And are you sure that they have no clue about those? Haven't you watched First Contact where Picard, Worf and Hawk were in EVA suits?[/QUOTE]


Space Troopers would not get sucked into space, the suits have mini ION thrusters and magnetic clamps, as well as a Mini proton torpedo luancher and blaster cannons. So venting will not help, at all. As for the EVA suits, yes the Federation as Vacuum suits, but you do not see a single Exoskeletal suit of armor in the entire series, not once.


[QUOTE]Well first of all, Klingons don't just fight hand to hand, they have disruptors too.[/QUOTE]

Yeah fire a disrupter at a Wookie, singe a little fur and piss him off so that he rips you in half. Wookies also use bowcasters, long guns (super heavy blasters) and even normal blasters.

[QUOTE]It is possible, but not through Deflector shield systems.[/QUOTE]

There were boarders on the Enterprise during Nemesis, not once did you see transporters used to beeam them to the brig. Also when Picard and Data were aboard the Scimitar, if the transpoerters were an option both of them would be in the brig.

[QUOTE]The only time I've really seen a phaser miss is in Nemisis where Worf was ordered to fire a full spread, 0 elevation to find where the scimitar was.[/QUOTE]

Then open your eyes and watch the series again. Phasers have a hit ration of only 75% and that is against slow moving targets.

[QUOTE]Two words, expendable troops.
Three more words, Stormtroopers can't Aim.[/QUOTE]

Two Words: Bull Shit Explanation: Watch DS9 again. You will at least once that they don'[t even know the meaning of the term ground tactics. They don't understand abaltive armor. They have no support or automatic weapons, and no concept of artillery (something they must have lost between TOS and TNG) Plus The Federation has maybe 2 trillion inhabitants. Coruscant alone has 6 times that many.

As for your Stormtrooper line. The only times the Stormtroopers have show great incompetence was when ordered to let people escape. I still argue that on Endor the Storm troopers were doing well until Chewie stole and armored vehicle and destroyed the only other remaining one. Also 400 troopers versus 1500+ native, 50 navy SEAL like commandos, and the Heroes were out numbered


[quote]That doesn't make a single bit of sense, Are you saying that Star Trek has outdated technology, because Star Wars is still using Laser based weaponry, while Star Trek is using Directed phased energy bursts, and disruptors.[/QUOTE]

Actually it makes quite a bit of sense. The knight is quite capable of defending himself agains similarly armed opponents. He may even fair well against some one with a slightly superior weapon, armor, or transport. But against an opponenet he cannot harm, can out run him and in one shot penetrate his defenses the battle is hopeless. He can put nicks in the paint or can get someone if they leave the tank, but that is it. Meanwhile the Tank has the option of running him over, blowing him up, using the machine guns to mow him down, or they can by pass him all togehter and crush his castle.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1383885]Read up on my facts, the Galaxy class starship only had an estimated range of 18 months before needing to refuel. The DID NOT have the capablity to manufacture Anti-Matter, though they did have Bussard scoops to collect and replenish the Matter stockpile.



Are you kidding? A nanosecond is all it would take to for a molecule of air to hit the Antimater starting a chain reaction of explosions. Trying to dump it would take far longer, and remember there is dust in space. Truth of the matter is one moments breach of whatever mystical field you have keeping the Antimatter away form mater and the whole supply goes up before the computer could flip the dang switch.[/QUOTE]

I would like to know where you got this bullshit from.

molecule of air... what the fuck... you mean oxygen? Or perhaps Hydrogen? Maybe even nitrogen?

And if what you say is true, why have they lost "partial containment" and not blown up? Yeah, keep talking dumbass.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1383907]Bullshit again, or they wouldn't lose so many ships in magnetic poles. Besides ST has to perform special gravimetric scans when they want any detail. Also Gravimetric sensors are used by EVERY SW ship and are able to detect miniscule gravity fluctuation from light years away. The special ones that can detect cloaksed ships are even more fine tuned. From the description they probably scan an an entire area constantly and watch for sudden or persistant indiscrepencies. it's not like they just go. "Oh that empty area of space is exerting gravity." but more like "The gravity signature of that area of space has changed in the last minute and here is a map of the areas where the gravity signature made similiar changes and their progression."[/QUOTE]

Are you stupid? Planets have a VERY large magnetic signature... magnetic poles also interfere with magnometric readings and many other things- you ever look at a fish at any angle above water? Yeah? Now try stabbing it with a spear. You'll miss. You know why? Refraction. That happens with strong magnetic/gravimetric fields with ANY particle with mass.

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1382310]As are self-regenerating phasers (which work in areas where power packs fail, so count your blasters and lightsabers out). That and the Federation has incendiary and projectile weapons as well.[/QUOTE]

Excuse me, Hand Phasers fail to function in the presence of even the most mild radiation. Also they would be susceptible to EMP as they are mostly circuitry. Star Wars also has Grenade Luanchers, missile luanchers, magnacaster (rail guns), flame throwers, grenades of every variety (even Ice), chemical weapons and so on.

But Blaster sna Light Sabers will work even after EMP as they are hardened. Of course some Secuirity and battle droids also are EMP shielded.

And finally scott:

Star Wars sensors get confused from having too much happen at once- a proton torpedo detonating too close can screw them up.

This is from your precious "EU". Bitch.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1383952]Excuse me, Hand Phasers fail to function in the presence of even the most mild radiation. Also they would be susceptible to EMP as they are mostly circuitry. Star Wars also has Grenade Luanchers, missile luanchers, magnacaster (rail guns), flame throwers, grenades of every variety (even Ice), chemical weapons and so on.

But Blaster sna Light Sabers will work even after EMP as they are hardened. Of course some Secuirity and battle droids also are EMP shielded.[/QUOTE]

Nope- the OLD phasers did, hence why they made self-regenerating phasers. Dumbass.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1383942]But one reaching that level of power does not mean other will. Wesley Crusher can bend space and time, but can every human do that? No.





The Vulcans hid it on themselves before. It isn't that they are stupid it is that they are smart enough to make it impossible to reassemble. Also the Vulcans are EXTREMELY logical. If they deduced that their best chance of survival was surrender they would do so. They have no pride to get in their way.




Actually Starfleet figured out a new set of Shield harmonics that did nuetralized the Breen weapon entirely. This suggest the weapon used the harmonics as a method of draining the power. As for the statement regarding Ion Cannons, I was merely trying to make them more useful to ST side.





Space Troopers would not get sucked into space, the suits have mini ION thrusters and magnetic clamps, as well as a Mini proton torpedo luancher and blaster cannons. So venting will not help, at all. As for the EVA suits, yes the Federation as Vacuum suits, but you do not see a single Exoskeletal suit of armor in the entire series, not once.




Yeah fire a disrupter at a Wookie, singe a little fur and piss him off so that he rips you in half. Wookies also use bowcasters, long guns (super heavy blasters) and even normal blasters.



There were boarders on the Enterprise during Nemesis, not once did you see transporters used to beeam them to the brig. Also when Picard and Data were aboard the Scimitar, if the transpoerters were an option both of them would be in the brig.



Then open your eyes and watch the series again. Phasers have a hit ration of only 75% and that is against slow moving targets.



Two Words: Bull Shit Explanation: Watch DS9 again. You will at least once that they don'[t even know the meaning of the term ground tactics. They don't understand abaltive armor. They have no support or automatic weapons, and no concept of artillery (something they must have lost between TOS and TNG) Plus The Federation has maybe 2 trillion inhabitants. Coruscant alone has 6 times that many.

As for your Stormtrooper line. The only times the Stormtroopers have show great incompetence was when ordered to let people escape. I still argue that on Endor the Storm troopers were doing well until Chewie stole and armored vehicle and destroyed the only other remaining one. Also 400 troopers versus 1500+ native, 50 navy SEAL like commandos, and the Heroes were out numbered




Actually it makes quite a bit of sense. The knight is quite capable of defending himself agains similarly armed opponents. He may even fair well against some one with a slightly superior weapon, armor, or transport. But against an opponenet he cannot harm, can out run him and in one shot penetrate his defenses the battle is hopeless. He can put nicks in the paint or can get someone if they leave the tank, but that is it. Meanwhile the Tank has the option of running him over, blowing him up, using the machine guns to mow him down, or they can by pass him all togehter and crush his castle.[/QUOTE]

But one reaching that level of power doesn't mean other can't.

Scott, you are SPECULATING again. Knock it the fuck off.

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1383943]I would like to know where you got this bullshit from.

molecule of air... what the fuck... you mean oxygen? Or perhaps Hydrogen? Maybe even nitrogen?

And if what you say is true, why have they lost "partial containment" and not blown up? Yeah, keep talking dumbass.[/QUOTE]

Well whatever is in the atmosphere. For some races it could be methane

As for Partial Containment it probably refers to one level of containment. If i had a fuel that unstable I would have ten levels all powered by didfferent reactors. becuase if any of that AM touch any matter the end result of the cain reaction of explosions will mean one destroyed ship.

BTW this means that your field could not be anything that has Particles in it. None, nothing, nada, not even tachyons.

Disruptors work thusly:

Expand and Compress the impacted area a thousand times in less than a second.

You hit a wookie with that and you are likely to cause it to implode and explode at the same time. THAT is why handheld disruptors are against most Trek weapons treaties.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1381096]The point is that the fate of the FDederation could have been resolved with a Genisis device on the oncoming Borg cube and despte the fact that the only think between Earth and assimiliation was the Emterprise D and still Feds did not use it.[/QUOTE]
And risk contaminating Earth?
The Feds had very little warning before the cube showed up and the genesis device takes a few days/weeks to initiate.



[QUOTE=TW Scott;1381096]
Sorry, no dice. No where in Star Trek has any ship shown the same destructive capability as a Star Destroyer. You don't see it even once. Even in Rise, Voyage barely shatters an asteroid made of brittle meinerals.
[/QUOTE]
Soran's device?
Omega Partiales?
Q?
How about ramming a huge asteroid at Warp Speed at the Death Star?
The Feds would never do that to a planet, too many innocents, but they will definetely do it to the Death Star if possible.
Hyperspeed cant hit planets and make a huge impact but you can do that at Warp Speed...

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1381096]
Actually their days are 25 roughly, but their galaxy is at least as large as ours, Besides they never said they did not have the technology of Antimatter, they just might have abandoned it for something more efficent and less volatile. After all a reactor that fit inside the Death Star was producing in a day the same amount of energy or sun produces in 7 years. In Star Trek terms it is more powerful than the Omega particles. [/QUOTE]
They still need to stick to Hyperspace routes which can be mined with self-replicating mines. Last I checked, SW sensors suck and they dont have replicator technology.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1381096]
If you are going to make an argument, you should at least have some evidence and not a gut feeling.[/QUOTE]
And you do?

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1383965]Well whatever is in the atmosphere. For some races it could be methane

As for Partial Containment it probably refers to one level of containment. If i had a fuel that unstable I would have ten levels all powered by didfferent reactors. becuase if any of that AM touch any matter the end result of the cain reaction of explosions will mean one destroyed ship.

BTW this means that your field could not be anything that has Particles in it. None, nothing, nada, not even tachyons.[/QUOTE]

You fail at physics. Not ALL molecules react- the reason matter/antimatter reacts so well is because they are their own polar opposites. AntiHydrogen and, say, Halon will probably produce a poof and not much else. Any Noble gas will probably contain anti-hydrogen very well. That is because the Noble gas's are UNREACTIVE.

Chemistry 101.

Also, Tachyons in Star Trek move at the speed of light and cannot exist at sub-light speeds... so they would be useless for containment of AM anyway.

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1383951]Are you stupid? Planets have a VERY large magnetic signature... magnetic poles also interfere with magnometric readings and many other things- you ever look at a fish at any angle above water? Yeah? Now try stabbing it with a spear. You'll miss. You know why? Refraction. That happens with strong magnetic/gravimetric fields with ANY particle with mass.[/QUOTE]

I spear fish quite often, i know exactly how to get that fish, becuase i know how to compensate. It just amazes me that ST ships can loses a WHITE ship in a magnetic pole, especially when said ship sould be spouting a good deal of energy itself. It should be like finding a black speck of dirt in your sugar, damned obvious.

You can try to argue, but you know I right. If they supposedly have finetuned sensors, hiding in a pole should be impossible without a cloaking device. None the less at least three ships have done it to the Enterprise-D, supposedly one of the best ships in the fleet.

You take a single grain of black sand and hide it in a bag of sugar. Shake the sugar up real good.

Now spend the next few HOURS trying to find it.

Just disproved your point, next?

Oh, and I won't believe for a second you can spear fish till you post a video proving it.

[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1383970]You fail at physics. Not ALL molecules react- the reason matter/antimatter reacts so well is because they are their own polar opposites. AntiHydrogen and, say, Halon will probably produce a poof and not much else. Any Noble gas will probably contain anti-hydrogen very well. That is because the Noble gas's are UNREACTIVE.[/quote[

You are a moron. first of all Noble gases do not react chemically, but you can still Fuse and Fission them. They also react to Antimatter. That intial poof you describe will spread some antimatter and matter and all the Anti-deuterium need is hydrogen for maximum bang, which BTW for comfort sake will be found as humidity in the air. Each raction is going to spread more andf more AM. Releasing massive amounts of energy each time. Trying to vent it out only guarantees you will have some reaction.

[QUOTE]Chemistry 101.[/QUOTE]

Obviously you failed.


[quote]Also, Tachyons in Star Trek move at the speed of light and cannot exist at sub-light speeds... so they would be useless for containment of AM anyway.[/QUOTE]

Tachyons move no slower than light as in they move FTL not C. That was your first error. Secod error, they might be safer than any other material as they are not likely to react with the AM. But then again safer yet would be form of field with no particles, but that would be strictly Sci-Fi

[color=red]A long time ago, In a Galaxy far far away...[/color][color=blue]

We seem to forget that this has happenned "A long time Ago, in a galaxy far far away".
[/color]
Perhaps we should think on what has really happened in the last 20 years...
[color=teal]
Shall we compare science fiction with [b]science fact?[/b][/color]

What is more realistic?

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1382248]Oh, god are you just deluded. There are more Sentient beings on Coruscant than there are Borg, period. That is just counting official census. Not the illegals, criminals, transients, or Droids. That is just one planet. Of course it is considered heavily populated, but still...
[/QUOTE]
There are MILLIONS of cubes with HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF BORG in EVERY CUBE.
200 Borg can set up a mini-collective on Coruscant and teh Empire cant do shit about it. The Borg can transport to anywhere on the city.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1382248]The Empire in it's heydey was 70% of the galaxy. The Federation doesn't even merit 20% of the apha quadrant.
[/QUOTE]
The Empire cant get the other 30% under its control? I thought it was so strong!
Its not Empire vs. Federation.
Its Empire + Rebels + Everthing vs. Federation + Romulans + Klingons + Cardassians + [B]Dominion[/B] + [B]Borg[/B] + Species 8472 + since the Federation survives till the 31st century, Future Federation + [B]Q[/B] + whatever the hell is in the rest of the Beta Quadrant other than Cardassians
The Federation are a small part of the entire galaxy.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1382248]
Yes the Romulans and Klingons have cloaking devices that can foll ST style sensors, but then again a Magnetic pole can do that. SW has cloaks that make the ship completely undetectable unless you have a very finely tuned gravimetric sensor and know what you are looking for.
[/QUOTE]
"but then again a Magnetic pole can do that."
Weak technology? Of course... Magnetic poles never mess up ST sensors...
SW cloaks are [B]VERY[/B] expensive and the Empire does NOT implement it widely.
Cloaking is standard on Romulan and Klingon ships and may be in use in Federation ships since the Klingons may join the Federation as hinted by time travel episodes. Then there is the Picard Maneuver. Better than any cloak since SW ships cant fight in FTL and SW ships can appear in hundreds of places at once using the Picar Maneuver.

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1382248]
The ST universe features ships that need 70 years to travel half the galaxy. The SW universe features ships that can go from one edge of the galaxy to the opposite edge in mere days.
[/QUOTE]
Which is why localized governments are effective. The Empire may be able to attack many places at once, but individual governments can put up a defense.
The Borg have transwarp. Thats like halfway across the Galaxy in minutes. If, bu your comments, the Jedi and Sith are going to cooperate, then the Borg and the rest of the Galaxy will cooperate and Q will help. Its the entire universe vs. the other. Transwarp is better than hyper-space. Hyperspace takes time to calculate routes etc.
PLUS. MY MAIN POINT.
[B]Hyperspace routes are NOT DISCOVERED in the Milky Way. It took SW thousands of years for the Rakatans to discover the hyperspace routes. [/B]

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1382248]
The ST universe has weapons that are repelled by 400 gigawatt shields. The SW universe has everyday weapons that produce 52 billion gigawatts
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TW Scott;1382248]
Don't get me wrong I love ST, but in an all out war SW just rolls right over the lesser races without serious effort. Though I am quite sure ST would fight to the bitter end, well except for the Vulcans.
[/QUOTE]

Thank you ESP

And Scott- M/AM is a chemo-fission reaction. The initial contact results in a chemical change in both particles, releasing enough energy to start obliteration. Fission/Fusion results in having particles left over. As a M/AM reaction has NO waste, they cannot be Fission/Fusion. Thus it must be a chemical instigation. Also, it should be obvious that the Matter and Anti-Matter are not stored together, and the storage facilities would be a CLEAN VACUUM to prevent contamination. I was banking on human common sense... I guess that's a bad idea when dealing with you.

The Speed of Light is NOT a constant. Get it right. And Tachyons can exist at C, but not below. It has to do with theories your small mind couldn't possibly comprehend.