Definately not. Though I think Luke had a premonition once.
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Definately not. Though I think Luke had a premonition once.
yes BOTH sides can read the force. thats how they can tell when someone is going to strike them (its the same thing, just more imidiate). The difference is they read what they WANT to read. so when one side is strong it clouds the other
In yodas words "difficalt to see the future is" not impossable
Any how, prescience is better at prediction value, horrible at lightning/lightsabre stunts value. If prescience can't detect no-ships, the force can't either.
Also, ever since the Duncan ghola gained it's memory back in Dune: Messiah, the Tleilaxu copied the trauma procedure and refined it so as to revive other ghola's memories in times to come. What if Dune copied the T-probe procedure on Miles Teg and refined it so as to make an army of super-human warriors that could act as shock-troops capable of beating Luke Skywalker? HECK, WHY DON'T THEY COPY THE TYRANT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Dune scientists get inspired by Trek and Wars technology and find MORE uses for the Holtzman field.
As I recall, in Chapterhouse: Dune, the Honored Matres had a massive fleet; much larger than the Bene Gesserits. Something makes me want to say the no-ship fleet was in the millions.
Another interesting thing of note; Dune's society with the breeding programs makes each generation stronger than the last. Master Swordsman Duncan Idaho was beat by a Fish Speaker in one of his reserrections thousands of years after his death.
Any Bene Gessarit with the mind/body control could coat themselves in sandworms and become practically invulnerable to all small weapons. A mere handful would be able to destroy legions of Imperial troops. Goodbye clone troopers.
If Dune shields do go nuclear under any laser, then all Star Wars has to do is use cheap droids. Send a few droids out to detonate anything with shielding. If you put personal shields on all the hero type units, you'd make it incredibly easy for them to be destroyed by just droids.
Dune shields are a huge weakness. Sacrificing a few tie fighters would easily disintegrate an entire heighliner if it had shields up. This make me thinks that heighliners didn't have shields.
Also, heighliners when compared to War or Trek ships would just be transports. They're not exactly battleships, because the Guild had nothing to fear from anyone. Anyone who attacked the Guild would be cut out of intersteller travel, and would fade and die.
[QUOTE=Roman]As I recall, in Chapterhouse: Dune, the Honored Matres had a massive fleet; much larger than the Bene Gesserits. Something makes me want to say the no-ship fleet was in the millions.[/quote]
I get this feeling too. The BG were on the run throughout this novel and it wasn't until the end that things really hit the fan.
[quote=Roman]
Another interesting thing of note; Dune's society with the breeding programs makes each generation stronger than the last. Master Swordsman Duncan Idaho was beat by a Fish Speaker in one of his reserrections thousands of years after his death.[/quote]
Actually I think it was Moneo in God Emperor that did this. Moneo was also in the hundreds while the Duncan Ghola was in his prime ( 20's to 30's ). After Moneo drops Duncan, Duncan is shocked, Moneo states, "You are simply an older version." or something along those lines. Showing that through the Breeding programs the Tyrant had created a far greater human, without having to resort to spice usage.
[quote=Roman]
Any Bene Gessarit with the mind/body control could coat themselves in sandworms and become practically invulnerable to all small weapons. A mere handful would be able to destroy legions of Imperial troops. Goodbye clone troopers.
If Dune shields do go nuclear under any laser, then all Star Wars has to do is use cheap droids. Send a few droids out to detonate anything with shielding. If you put personal shields on all the hero type units, you'd make it incredibly easy for them to be destroyed by just droids.
Dune shields are a huge weakness. Sacrificing a few tie fighters would easily disintegrate an entire heighliner if it had shields up. This make me thinks that heighliners didn't have shields.
Also, heighliners when compared to War or Trek ships would just be transports. They're not exactly battleships, because the Guild had nothing to fear from anyone. Anyone who attacked the Guild would be cut out of intersteller travel, and would fade and die.[/QUOTE]
I'm with you Roman. However I don't think many Dune ships actually had shields. This still proves to be a weakness for the Dune ships as you can only armor up a ship so much, however, if you have potentially millions of no-ships running around it wouldn't matter much anyway. No-ships could simply slip in, take out their destined target and slip away without ever being detected.
[QUOTE=Pollux V]So if the two universes collided and had to do battle with each other (I mean like Klingons, Borg, Feds vs New Republic, Imperials, Hapes Cluster, Hutts, Jedi, you get the idea...) who would emerge victorious? This is the type of conversation we all have as little children, so enjoy![/QUOTE]
Resistance is futile!
Doesn't that say it all. The borg would eventually squash anything else that came at them, even if they weren't initially the winner in any skirmish (although I think they would be).
Anyone who disagrees will be assimiliated! ;)
As explained in Dune: The Machine Crusade, Dune battleships had shields that could be activated at a moments notice and de-activated at a moments notice. They even had a device which would de-activate the shield for a micro-second to fire a lasgun beam and then activate in a microsecond.
Ive said it before and ill say it again Star Trek would win against anything!
[SIZE=6]OH AND MIGHT I REMIND EVERYONE THIS POLL IS ABOUT STAR TREK VS STAR WARS NOT DUNE!!!!!!![/SIZE]
[QUOTE=Kron]As explained in Dune: The Machine Crusade, Dune battleships had shields that could be activated at a moments notice and de-activated at a moments notice. They even had a device which would de-activate the shield for a micro-second to fire a lasgun beam and then activate in a microsecond.[/QUOTE]
Yep I remember that now.
[quote=STG]OH AND MIGHT I REMIND EVERYONE THIS POLL IS ABOUT STAR TREK VS STAR WARS NOT DUNE!!!!!!![/quote]
If you will look through the poll then you will see an option for Dune. So Dune is included. The title to the thread is ST vs SW. Get it straight. Also what's the deal with all the ST fans coming in for one post just to say that ST is great. Show some proof people, don't be a jackass.
What are you on about?
Just because one person makes a comment that means that Dune is included?
You are wrong yes one person made a comment but the thread is about Star Trek vs star wars.
And the fact that i said that star trek would win is neither here or there you get star wars fans comming on all the time saying the same thing about star wars!
It doesn't matter how large any opposing fleet is!
you could have 10 Akira class ships firing their Chain reaction Pulsar which would destroy any thing as they rebound off enemy ships picking up power as they go!
[QUOTE=STG]What are you on about?
Just because one person makes a comment that means that Dune is included?
You are wrong yes one person made a comment but the thread is about Star Trek vs star wars.
And the fact that i said that star trek would win is neither here or there you get star wars fans comming on all the time saying the same thing about star wars![/QUOTE]
Yes the thread states that it is ST vs SW, however the poll has an option for Dune, which I voted for and will continue to throw my facts up about. Now had there only been an option for ST and SW then it would be a whole different story. I would have voted for one of them and debated over the side that I picked.
Crap like this:
[quote=STG]Ive said it before and ill say it again Star Trek would win against anything[/quote]
Gets very annoying. I've seen a few people come in on the last few pages and do things like this for ST. I know others have done it for SW as well, but as you can tell this debate has come down to just that, a debate. Other than a few fanatic ST fans that come in and spout out things like:
[quote]Ive said it before and ill say it again Star Trek would win against anything[/quote]
Things go pretty smooth.
That is all.
*Edit* I will give you this, you did throw some arguement up with the Akria class and the chain reactor. Keep doing that and I don't have to be an asshole about things.
[quote]you could have 10 Akira class ships firing their Chain reaction Pulsar which would destroy any thing as they rebound off enemy ships picking up power as they go! [/quote]
I know very little about Star trek. Perhaps you could elaborate as to what these pulsars do?
[quote]Doesn't that say it all. The borg would eventually squash anything else that came at them, even if they weren't initially the winner in any skirmish (although I think they would be).[/quote]
Not true. The Borg are incredible pussies. It's laughable how weak they are; truly pathetic.
I've seen too many Trek episodes involving the Trekkers teleporting aboard a Cube to kidnap flux capacitors and whatnot. Internal cube defense is poor.
While the borg are extremely resiliant to energy weapons; almost no one in the Dune universe uses energy weapons.
Every warrior is trainded in martial arts– swords, feet, sticks, knives, poison, etc. These sword fighters would easily tear apart any borg armies. Dune fighters also used projectile weapons– flachettes, needle guns, etc. In one Trek movie, the Borg went back in time, but were killed by a machine gun. Flachettes, needles and highly andvanced poisons would quickly drop the borg.
When a Dune warrior was infected with borg tech, and an attempted assimilation; anyone trained in the Weirding Ways would be able to resist, if not outrightly fight it off.
Dune warriors also wore personal shields, which would make it difficult for the borg to penetrate.
And finally, the Dune warriors that were incased in sandtrout (sluglike, silicon based based lifeforms that are attracted to water) would be impervious to any blasters the borg used, and any needles the borg tried to assimlate with, and immune to any assimilation attempts.
When Leto 2 incased himself in sandtrout, we moved faster than the wind (literally, he could run for hours and be a blur, then dive 20 feet into a sand dune). Leto's strength was so great that he could lift a heighliner, withstand the intense heat from spaceship engines, and be blasted with lazguns on full power (the kind that cut and melt stone) and withstand everything. Even crysknives could not penetrate his sand trout armor, and he ate every deadly poison in the universe without any adverse affects.
Furthermore, he lived for 5000 years.
All Leto would have to do would breach a borg cube, then tear it apart from the inside. It might take years, but he could do it.
[quote=opteronguy]Actually I think it was Moneo in God Emperor that did this. Moneo was also in the hundreds while the Duncan Ghola was in his prime ( 20's to 30's ). After Moneo drops Duncan, Duncan is shocked, Moneo states, "You are simply an older version." or something along those lines. Showing that through the Breeding programs the Tyrant had created a far greater human, without having to resort to spice usage. [/quote]
You're absolutely right. Remember how tough the Fremen were, and that Duncan was about as tough as a Fremen. Then Duncan gets bested by 100 year old Moneo. The Fish Speakers must be nigh indestructible. I think the Fish Speakers would best the Jedi, even at the height of Jedi rule.
[QUOTE=Roman]I know very little about Star trek. Perhaps you could elaborate as to what these pulsars do?
Not true. The Borg are incredible pussies. It's laughable how weak they are; truly pathetic.
I've seen too many Trek episodes involving the Trekkers teleporting aboard a Cube to kidnap flux capacitors and whatnot. Internal cube defense is poor.
While the borg are extremely resiliant to energy weapons; almost no one in the Dune universe uses energy weapons.
Every warrior is trainded in martial arts– swords, feet, sticks, knives, poison, etc. These sword fighters would easily tear apart any borg armies. Dune fighters also used projectile weapons– flachettes, needle guns, etc. In one Trek movie, the Borg went back in time, but were killed by a machine gun. Flachettes, needles and highly andvanced poisons would quickly drop the borg.
When a Dune warrior was infected with borg tech, and an attempted assimilation; anyone trained in the Weirding Ways would be able to resist, if not outrightly fight it off.
Dune warriors also wore personal shields, which would make it difficult for the borg to penetrate.
And finally, the Dune warriors that were incased in sandtrout (sluglike, silicon based based lifeforms that are attracted to water) would be impervious to any blasters the borg used, and any needles the borg tried to assimlate with, and immune to any assimilation attempts.
When Leto 2 incased himself in sandtrout, we moved faster than the wind (literally, he could run for hours and be a blur, then dive 20 feet into a sand dune). Leto's strength was so great that he could lift a heighliner, withstand the intense heat from spaceship engines, and be blasted with lazguns on full power (the kind that cut and melt stone) and withstand everything. Even crysknives could not penetrate his sand trout armor, and he ate every deadly poison in the universe without any adverse affects.
Furthermore, he lived for 5000 years.
All Leto would have to do would breach a borg cube, then tear it apart from the inside. It might take years, but he could do it.
You're absolutely right. Remember how tough the Fremen were, and that Duncan was about as tough as a Fremen. Then Duncan gets bested by 100 year old Moneo. The Fish Speakers must be nigh indestructible. I think the Fish Speakers would best the Jedi, even at the height of Jedi rule.[/QUOTE]
Tuche! Good to hear from ya again Roman, I had thought you left us in this thread! Good times giving it to the trekkies, eh? :D :D :D
Only 4 vote for space balls come on people, didn’t their ship run on garbage
Good to see you back Roman, anyway Dune simply isn't winning the polls because the option to vote for Dune only came later. And Dune would simply create an army of fish speakers or Honoured Matres and conquer all. How would you trekkies like to see the crew of the enterprise become Honoured Matre sex-slaves?!!!
Anyway, can anyone explain the pulsar thing?
Hmmm... I didn't know Leto II could do that. I didn't read god-emperor of Dune, but if he can, then an army of fremen in sandtrout could take out the Death-star.
I would like to direct everyone's attention to the technology issue I pointed out.
I have no idea about the pulsar thing. I think it was in one of the games, however I am unsure.
As for Leto II, Roman is pretty much dead on, however he only lived for 3500-4000 years. Everything else is dead on though.
Oh and.. Kirk and Picard as HM sex slaves... Now that would be some funny ish.
[QUOTE=STG]What are you on about?
Just because one person makes a comment that means that Dune is included?
You are wrong yes one person made a comment but the thread is about Star Trek vs star wars.[/quote]Dune is included because, well, it's included. Right there in the poll and everything. What more do you want? [quote]And the fact that i said that star trek would win is neither here or there you get star wars fans comming on all the time saying the same thing about star wars![/QUOTE]I think he was complaining about the way ST fans seem to like to just jump in and just make bold, declarative statements without actually engaging in discussion.
[quote=TrekPassionsCom]Resistance is futile!
Doesn't that say it all. The borg would eventually squash anything else that came at them, even if they weren't initially the winner in any skirmish (although I think they would be).
Anyone who disagrees will be assimiliated! [/quote]The mere fact that the federation can't handle the borg very well doesn't mean that the forces for Dune or SW wouldn't mop the floor with them. There's already been plenty of discussion about this.
I'v been following this debate pretty closely and I just registered so I could put in my two cents.
There is an episode of ST: TNG that is called "Gambit" where the crew of the Enterprise D find an ancient vulcan weapon that attacks anyone holding violent or negative feelings. Anyone holding hate, fear, anger, etc... gets hit by some crazy energy thing that shatters them. So that weapon would wipe out the Sith with no problem.
Someone also said that ST ships don't carry heavy weapons and aren't that big, but I have to disagree with that too. Species 8472 is pretty powerful. They destroyed 3 Borg cubes in about 3 seconds. Then there is the episode of ST: Voyager where they find an alien race called the Voth, which are supposedly earth dinosaurs that left earth. The Voth ship was about 10 or 15 tiimes larger than Voyager and the Voth brought Voyager inside their ship.
I think something obvious that everyone is overlooking is ST cloaking devices, unless SW has them too. They might. I don't know. But, in the episode of TNG "The Pegasus", the Federation shows they have developed phased cloaking technology, which means they can cloak and pass through any solid material. Federation ships could cloak and pass right through the death star into the big chamber thing where Luke shot it, and then recloak and go to warp and be gone.
The Star Wars universe seems to have more ships but we never saw how big The Dominion really was in Star Trek. Indications point to a Gamma Quadrant fleet that was enormous in quantity. The Dominion did most of the fighting with the Alpha Quadrant fleet since DS9 was blocking the wormhole entrance, probably with the self-replicating mines they had present at the beginning of season 6 of DS9.
Finally, I've had this discussion a million times with people over the years, and I really do enjoy both Star Trek and Star Wars. Comparing the two in any way bothers me somewhat though because they really are very different creatures. They both have the word "Star" in the title and they are both science fiction genres set it space. The similarities end there. Star Wars is a sc-fi fantasy, with mythical warriors known as Jedi and Siths. The plot is the tried and true "good vs. evil." The allure is the mystical, almost spiritual quality of the force, and the exciting lightsaber fights, which resemble ancient warriors battling to the death. The space battles and galactic wars keep us entertained on a more human level.
Star Trek is more of a sci-fi action/drama. Where Star Wars keeps us enterained with a fantasy of mythical warriors, Star Trek does it more in a "What if" way. What if humans survive long enough to travel through space? This is what if. We create a vast federation, "encounter new life forms and new civilizations. We see how humans (us) interact with other intelligent life in the galaxy. While Star Wars appeals to our fantasy, Star Trek appeals to our humanistic ideals. Where Star Wars is mythical and quasi-spiritual , Star Trek is scientific and exploratory.
That's not to say they don't cross into the other's areas. Star Wars has no qualms about presenting a scientific outlook on their universe, as is the case with explaining the force in terms of the mitichlorians. But it is true that the main figures in the stories, the Jedi and Siths, take on a more warrior/monk persona. At the same time, Star Trek introduces Q, and the Prophets without a need to explain them scientifically, and thus makes them more mystical, while maintaining the humanistic and athiest attitudes of the Federation.
[QUOTE=Dru DP]I'v been following this debate pretty closely and I just registered so I could put in my two cents.
There is an episode of ST: TNG that is called "Gambit" where the crew of the Enterprise D find an ancient vulcan weapon that attacks anyone holding violent or negative feelings. Anyone holding hate, fear, anger, etc... gets hit by some crazy energy thing that shatters them. So that weapon would wipe out the Sith with no problem.[/quote]Assuming that you could actually get close enough to each Sith to use it, and assuming that they can’t use their force powers to resist the attack. [quote]But, in the episode of TNG "The Pegasus", the Federation shows they have developed phased cloaking technology, which means they can cloak and pass through any solid material. Federation ships could cloak and pass right through the death star into the big chamber thing where Luke shot it, and then recloak and go to warp and be gone.[/quote]Note that they didn't use it against either the borg or the dominion, even though both were about to wipe out star fleet.