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Yes, several forms of TIE fighters do not have Ray Shields. In fact there are a few other types of fighters that do not. However the TIE series of fighters still come equiped with particle shielding as par for course. In Star Trek terms it is not too dismiliar from Stuctural Integrity fields, except that a TIE does not fly apart or shake itself to pieces if the Particle Shielding drops.
[QUOTE=TW Scott;1339807]Only once has anyone said all the Jedi were extinct (obi-one kenobi created by george lucas) and he was a pompous ass who had the common sense of a gnat. [/QUOTE]
You contradicted your own movies, your conversation has been forfeited.
Also, the reason that no body is arguing with me is they know im right, your to much pompous ass to realize this. Again your argument has been forfeited.
[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1340584]I am sorry Scott, but the movies (The ORIGIONAL Trilogy) are the only Star Wars sources I consider cannon because Lucas himself had a hand in writing them. The writers of the books basicly had free creative license to do as the please, partially because what is impressive on screen is not as impressive on a page of a book.
In the same way, after Roddenbury passed, Star Trek started to have continuity issues. A good example is Enterprise- Piece of SHIT. It totally ruined the time line.
Going ORIGINAL CANNON to true Star Trek cannon, Star Trek would win. I don't care to be honest how much they up-played things in the new movies or in books. I don't consider Star Trek books to be any more cannon than Star Wars books. If you want to play it that way, then read Star Trek: Titan series. Or even Shattered Sword. Some of the things they do there... just... no. It would not happen. A good example is how an Intrepid class took on 3 Warbirds in Shattered Sword, destroying 2 of them and severely damaging the third. An intrepid would never be able to do that alone. Period.
Likewise, in Clone Wars, Grevious utterly raped all the jedi he came across- then Mace Windu was like NO! BAD! *crushes chest*
Now Mace Windu is dead and Greivous got owned because he completely SUCKED in Episode 2... where was all his stuff from Clone Wars? *shrugs*
So yeah, stick to real cannon mates. For simplicities sake.
Perhaps the best reason Star Trek would win? It's happening. In real life.
Anti-matter- Real
Deuterium - Real
Tritanium - possible
Warp Drive - possible
Impulse Drive - Real (Impulse merely means action-reaction)
Phasers - possible
Photon torps (Matter-antimatter reaction) Possible
Starbases - real
shields - real
Dilithium - fake
All ships have decent defenses - makes logical sense
Alien races - possible, but not probable
Star Wars-
Force - fake
HyperDrive - no way in hell (I highly doubt a ship can sustain the forces encounted by entering an artificial, unstable wormhole)
Very weak, no shields ships used for primary combat - who the hell had brain damage?
Alien races - dear GOD I hope not
Totalitarian government who rules by fear - would be overthrown by the rest of the world much less universe
Lasers - real
Ion Drive - real, but impractical
Duranium, Courscca Gems, ect - say what?
Yeah... Star Trek is far more likely to actually happen than Star Wars.[/QUOTE]
Agreed
[QUOTE=Dontai;1344058]You contradicted your own movies, your conversation has been forfeited.
Also, the reason that no body is arguing with me is they know im right, your to much pompous ass to realize this. Again your argument has been forfeited.[/QUOTE]
That is indeed a good sign.
Instead of integrating STar Wars SCott disassembles it and discards the parts he's no use of...
yes, star wars have sheilds. No, they not very useful. You can see in film multiple shot going right through thier sheilds striking the hull. Second millenium falcon sheild stop a star destroyer turbo laser blast, but couldn't stop tiefighter potshot. Shows that turbo lazer towers and heavy lazer tower are very weak weapon and incase scott want to argue watch first three star wars movie. Watch tie fighter seen were, luke start screamimg about "i got him. I got him." then han says "Don't worry, she'll hold together.You hear me, baby? Hold together!" Didn't see his ship fall part when he was engaged by star destroyer, yet few tie pot shot ripped ship apart?
Your sheild aren't just weak, your ship are weak aswell and have no armor. Fricken crashed fighter took out a star destroyer. Man if i was wars fan i would give up, even in films your ship are weak. In episode VI return of jedi were was death stars 50,000 turbo lazer towers? If any of you, would just take the time to watch original first three films you would realize how weak they are.
I could name so many sceens in just first three film, that proves out how week your ships are and best of all it completely cannon. Like how many turbo lazer do you claim is on Star destroyer couple of thousand? How come i rarely ever see three shot coming form the thing? Dont turbo lazer towers have two gun per tower? so you got what one working tower and one broken one? Also star wars ship aren't armored, star trek ship are.
We wouldn't be taken out by a crashing fighter that already halfway destroyed or 50,000 storm trooper killed by ewoks; midget with fur coats. I'm sick of wars boys trying prove their better. Even trek wasn't beaten by bunch midget with fur coat with bow, rock and sharp sticks. Even the empire couldn't stop the dreaded ewoks.
All the Sith and turbo lasers in the Empire couldn't stop little teddy bears with 11th century weapons, so how in the hell are they expected to take on Starfleet's marines? I would bet even a small pack of Klingons or even Romulans wouldn't have to hard of a time with Imp's, much less having to deal with the Federation, Starfleet, and Section 31.
As far as space combat goes, not once has a shuttlecraft crashed into a Starfleet vessel and it resulted into a deathblow, hell it took a Soyuz class hitting a Galaxy class to result in an explosion. Let us not forget the Dominion War, there were several instances of ships bouncing off each other and they still kept going.
I'm sorry, but Star Wars shot itself in the foot with the films, there are too many wtf moments to make up for. You can talk all the bazillionwatts and jiggajoules all you want, it doesn't make up for teddy bear pwnage, 1 stray fighter taking out a SSD, and the Empire's oversights into internal defenses of these Death Stars. Who the hell builds a moon sized spacestation and not think of the exhaust ports being unprotected??
I don't want to hear a "but the Force" rebuttle either, because all the Force in the freaking Star Wars universe didn't help Vader of the Emperor in anything. The Force, a plot device if I ever seen one.
Can't beat it? "Use the Force" oh shut up and go Force choke a teddy bear.
[QUOTE=grimlockprime;1344165]All the Sith and turbo lasers in the Empire couldn't stop little teddy bears with 11th century weapons, so how in the hell are they expected to take on Starfleet's marines? I would bet even a small pack of Klingons or even Romulans wouldn't have to hard of a time with Imp's, much less having to deal with the Federation, Starfleet, and Section 31.
As far as space combat goes, not once has a shuttlecraft crashed into a Starfleet vessel and it resulted into a deathblow, hell it took a Soyuz class hitting a Galaxy class to result in an explosion. Let us not forget the Dominion War, there were several instances of ships bouncing off each other and they still kept going.
I'm sorry, but Star Wars shot itself in the foot with the films, there are too many wtf moments to make up for. You can talk all the bazillionwatts and jiggajoules all you want, it doesn't make up for teddy bear pwnage, 1 stray fighter taking out a SSD, and the Empire's oversights into internal defenses of these Death Stars. Who the hell builds a moon sized spacestation and not think of the exhaust ports being unprotected??
I don't want to hear a "but the Force" rebuttle either, because all the Force in the freaking Star Wars universe didn't help Vader of the Emperor in anything. The Force, a plot device if I ever seen one.
Can't beat it? "Use the Force" oh shut up and go Force choke a teddy bear.[/QUOTE]
You know your second person on this intire site that actully make since not including me. Saquist is other one. Star wars fan are alwase say how great they are, and lwase critazise trek, saying their no way in heck that we can win, but man they have so many wtf moment in their films. Their no chance after seeing return of jedi that they can ever win. We just have crash bunch of fighter in to their Glass coverd, no armor, no blast door command centers. Better yet attack them with shuttles. The isn't even armor any were near command center of ship.
The ability to destroy the planet is insignificant next to power of the force" - lord vader shorty before hand solo blast him flying in to space proving that vader is total noob and that all sith lord are idiots.
The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to power of the force, which admiral, cant stop han solo from shooting me or help me to shoot luke who few feet ahead of me. Btw admiral i cant aim worth crap. So i promoting you to sith lord since im worse than useless. Here have my lightsaber." - Lord vader after he realized he was a total idiot.
I think it's safe to say we sent little scotty back to his hidey hole. Too full of himself is he, fall hard he shall :D :o
Case in point:
Full Coverage Shields > Angular Deflector "Ray" Shields
Star Trek Shields can have power diverted from ALL systems (including life support and even the warp engines)
Star Wars shields can only draw power from weapons and engines and other shield arcs.
Darth Vader got wtfgodsmacked by Han because
1) He didn't expect it (what happened to the force yo?)
2) He's a fucking nubbins that didn't know what he wanted (loyal to the emperor, I think not)
3) A single blast completely TOASTED his ship's navigation and engines... where were the shields then?
Also, the two X-Wings flanking luke got omgpwnt because they had all their shields angled foward- a single strike from Vader blew em to pieces. What happened to their armor?
Another interesting fact - I've seen many a X-Wing get smacked around by "light" star wars weapons. Weren't X-Wings supposed to be THE premier fighter of the Rebel Alliance?
*shrug* At least in Star Trek the ships can usually take a few hits before loosing shields. Hell, look at Deep Space Nine - the USS Defiant fucking OWNED! It was like an F-14 flying around pegging Derigibles...
God, you idiots are still not getting it. Not only that but you can't spell or form rational sentences.
OK, as for my comment on only one person has said the Jedi are extinct. That was that admiral at the table and he was a pompous ass and had the common sense of a gnat. Show me where any toehr character has claimed they were extinct. The worst besides that was Tarkin's comment about, "The Jedi are all but extinct. You my friend, are all that is left of their Religion." Obi Wan is quoted as saying that "No they're not all dead, not yet." (roughtly)
As for the bull shit about shields. When a commonly used weapon in Star Wars has an effect 150 times more powerful than one the most powerful Warp core Star Fleet produces/uses (even if we go by the One comment out of dozens) then all i have to say to the rest of you is STFU. It doesn't matter if you pore every ounce of Enterprise D's Shields into an area excalty were the Turbolaser would be coming in the shields would not stop the bolt, even slightly. Just simple rules of the game.
Now I notice you are all bitching about fighters, well let's clear up some of your Bullshit.
The X-Wing fighter is a space superiority fighter much like Todays F-14 Tomcat. It is one of the bad dogs on the block, but can still be taken out by Star Wars Fighter Weaponry. Notice the key words of Star Wars Fighter Weaponry.
Han got around Darth Vader's danger sense by never actually shooting him. He nailed wing man number two and then Wingman number one affected by shockwaves and distraction collided with Vader. You will note that after Vader right his craft it flies perfectly and he is able to Hyperspace jump home.
Now for those of you thing Fighters are the backbones of Starwars conflict think again. They are support craft. The backbones of assaults is Capital ships. Now think on this alone the Empire had 10,000 Imperial Star Destroyers that their sole mission was Patrol. That is just one class of Star Destroyer, there is still toe 100,000 Acclamators, the 30,000 Victory Star Destroyers, the 8,000 Imperial II Star Destroyers,not to mention Millions of Frigates, Corvettes and escort cruisers.
Get a concept here, even the Borg are outnumbered Millions to one anf Out gunned Billions to one.
With all these millions of frigates/corvettes/escorts, the 100,000+ SD/SSD/ect....capital ships the Empire STILL LOST!?!?!? WTH is wrong with the mighty Empire if they can't squish EWOKS, one freaking smuggler with a furry co-pilot, two droids with serious homo tendancies, and a Jedi wannabe with a hitch for his sister? Must be complete and total idiots running the Empire. The clone vats need to be checked because evidently they are cloning retards.
Ok, let me put it this way. The Star Wars universe must not be as smart as the Trek universe. I guess the Empire thinks it can win a war by putting retards in the armed forces.
My lord, just because you have a loaded Apache Longbow doesn't mean you are going to win a battle with a paper bag if the crew of the Apache is a bunch of Jerry's kids! Get the concept here?
Lord Vader, unable to kill a smuggler in a freaking TRANSPORT. Come on, what is he Lord of, the bathroom? The Empire, unable to smash a tiny group of rebels with all these millions of ships and troops and "Force" b.s, and please, don't bring the Borg back into it. The Empire forces are idiots, if Ewoks and smugglers in transports can take them on and win how in the hell are they going to resist drones? I got 5 bucks that says the Spaceballs could wipe the floor with Star Wars. Yeah, I went there, SPACEBALLS.
May the Schwartz be with you.
It's ok Star Wars guys, I know it's been a long day, you are tired, go take nap. I'm sure you'll feel better after you get you some nap time. Don't forget your bottle and blankey...
Ah, so the addlebrained Transformer wannabe has posted yet anouther trifling without even a touch of wit or wisdom.
He has no point so resorts to insulting fictional people. Then he adds in an ad hominem attack against the people who have just been stating facts. If he had a valid argument in there somewhere his infantile insults could be entertaining, but alas it is just the hot air of a buffoon.
[QUOTE=grimlockprime;1344165]All the Sith and turbo lasers in the Empire couldn't stop little teddy bears with 11th century weapons, so how in the hell are they expected to take on Starfleet's marines? I would bet even a small pack of Klingons or even Romulans wouldn't have to hard of a time with Imp's, much less having to deal with the Federation, Starfleet, and Section 31[/QUOTE].
As long as Trek has tribbles, then you're saying we can win....Yeah....Cause the Empire really does bite in The Return of the Jedi.
[QUOTE]As far as space combat goes, not once has a shuttlecraft crashed into a Starfleet vessel and it resulted into a deathblow, hell it took a Soyuz class hitting a Galaxy class to result in an explosion. Let us not forget the Dominion War, there were several instances of ships bouncing off each other and they still kept going.[/QUOTE]
YOU KNOW THAT"S RIGHT! I never thought of it like that!
[QUOTE]I'm sorry, but Star Wars shot itself in the foot with the films, there are too many wtf moments to make up for. You can talk all the bazillionwatts and jiggajoules all you want, it doesn't make up for teddy bear pwnage, 1 stray fighter taking out a SSD, and the Empire's oversights into internal defenses of these Death Stars. Who the hell builds a moon sized spacestation and not think of the exhaust ports being unprotected??[/QUOTE]
Thank you ladies and gentleman...
I[QUOTE] don't want to hear a "but the Force" rebuttle either, because all the Force in the freaking Star Wars universe didn't help Vader of the Emperor in anything. The Force, a plot device if I ever seen one. [/QUOTE]
LOL
[QUOTE]Can't beat it? "Use the Force" oh shut up and go Force choke a teddy bear.[/QUOTE]
Scott you can get started on that ASAP...
[QUOTE=Dontai;1344108]yes, star wars have sheilds. No, they not very useful. You can see in film multiple shot going right through thier sheilds striking the hull. Second millenium falcon sheild stop a star destroyer turbo [/QUOTE]
Yes it's far more possible that Wars weapon suck untill you get to capital ship weapons which they've never seemed to have used...there must be a massive draw back if you don't even you your weapons in your biggest engagement.
[QUOTE]I could name so many sceens in just first three film, that proves out how week your ships are and best of all it completely cannon. Like how many turbo lazer do you claim is on Star destroyer couple of thousand? How come i rarely ever see three shot coming form the thing? Dont turbo lazer towers have two gun per tower? so you got what one working tower and one broken one? Also star wars ship aren't armored, star trek ship are. [/QUOTE]
You know Dontai I never thought about that...All we ever see is one bolt even in ANH in the Trench run... THAT"S MESSED UP!!!
[QUOTE=TW Scott;1344767]God, you idiots are still not getting it. Not only that but you can't spell or form rational sentences.[/QUOTE]
No El stupido, You're the only one that doesn't get it. SIAN has given up. He knew he lost....
[QUOTE]As for the bull shit about shields. When a commonly used weapon in Star Wars has an effect 150 times more powerful than one the most powerful Warp core Star Fleet produces/uses (even if we go by the One comment out of dozens) then all i have to say to the rest of you is STFU. It doesn't matter if you pore every ounce of Enterprise D's Shields into an area excalty were the Turbolaser would be coming in the shields would not stop the bolt, even slightly. Just simple rules of the game.[/QUOTE]
Only thing is Star Wars never says a thing about your imaginary 150 times a warp core. WHOOPS you're missing proof...Imagine my shock...
[QUOTE]Now I notice you are all bitching about fighters, well let's clear up some of your Bullshit.[/QUOTE] Only If you stop throwing it you howler monkey...
[QUOTE]The X-Wing fighter is a space superiority fighter much like Todays F-14 Tomcat. It is one of the bad dogs on the block, but can still be taken out by Star Wars Fighter Weaponry. Notice the key words of Star Wars Fighter Weaponry.[/QUOTE] Key word....F-14...that's exactly it's equivilent alright...we've seen those types against star trek in TOS...they do nothing and fighter to fighters...even less.
shields full of holes....Trek fighters would mop the floor with an x-wing.
[QUOTE]:roflmao: [/QUOTE]
So ALL I HAVE TO DO TO GET OVER THE GREATEST DARK LORD OF THE SITH IS RAM HIM!!!!! IT'S A DEAL!!!!
SOUND LIKE YOU'RE LYING AGAIN... :BS METER READING HIGH:
[QUOTE]Now for those of you thing Fighters are the backbones of Starwars conflict think again. They are support craft. The backbones of assaults is Capital ships. Now think on this alone the Empire had 10,000 Imperial Star Destroyers that their sole mission was Patrol. That is just one class of Star Destroyer, there is still toe 100,000 Acclamators, the 30,000 Victory Star Destroyers, the 8,000 Imperial II Star Destroyers,not to mention Millions of Frigates, Corvettes and escort cruisers[/QUOTE].
That's wrong the film says the fighters were critical to the biggest on screen fleet engagement. Lando specificly says to keep the fighters away from the cruisers. Cruisers and captial ships are carrier vessels and vunerable against pin point fighter attacks...
Get a concept here, even the Borg are outnumbered Millions to one anf Out gunned Billions to one.[/QUOTE]
can't you spell the simplest word? It's "and" not "anf"
[QUOTE=grimlockprime;1344941]With all these millions of frigates/corvettes/escorts, the 100,000+ SD/SSD/ect....capital ships the Empire STILL LOST!?!?!? WTH is wrong with the mighty Empire if they can't squish EWOKS, one freaking smuggler with a furry co-pilot, two droids with serious homo tendancies, and a Jedi wannabe with a hitch for his sister? Must be complete and total idiots running the Empire. The clone vats need to be checked because evidently they are cloning retards. [/QUOTE]
There is no accounting for taste...You blame that crap on George Lucas
[QUOTE]Ok, let me put it this way. The Star Wars universe must not be as smart as the Trek universe. I guess the Empire thinks it can win a war by putting retards in the armed forces.[/QUOTE]
That's true...Storm troopers have lost whatever Jango had..twenty years ago.
[QUOTE]Lord Vader, unable to kill a smuggler in a freaking TRANSPORT. Come on, what is he Lord of, the bathroom?[/QUOTE]
LOL
[QUOTE]It's ok Star Wars guys, I know it's been a long day, you are tired, go take nap. I'm sure you'll feel better after you get you some nap time. Don't forget your bottle and blankey...[/QUOTE]
Oh just wait...Scott really cries hard when he loses an argument. You should see the tantrum..
[QUOTE=TW Scott;1344945]Ah, so the addlebrained Transformer wannabe has posted yet anouther trifling without even a touch of wit or wisdom[/QUOTE]
I don't know that was kinda witty and just about any cheerleader blonde has more wisdom than you...
[QUOTE]He has no point so resorts to insulting fictional people. Then he adds in an ad hominem attack against the people who have just been stating facts. If he had a valid argument in there somewhere his infantile insults could be entertaining, but alas it is just the hot air of a buffoon.[/QUOTE]
He's done ladies and gentlemen...
Just telling the facts. Nothing I have stated about the Star Wars weaknesses is made up of false, it is taken directly from the most canon of sources, the original trilogy films. Has nothing to do with wit, and well the wisdom part comes in when you actually watch the blundering idiots of the Empire and Rebellion and recognize the hole riddled tech and plot of Star Wars.
Yes, I insulted the fictional characters, it's part of showing what kind of intellegence the Trek universe would have to deal with. I don't think I insulted them any worse than they were written.
However, you always feel the need to insult the people here, so what are you getting at? Somehow insulting the forum members makes you a better person?
I suggest if you're not happy with all these problems you write a stern letter to Lucas Arts and George himself demanding he gives the whole thing a do-over and make right what once went wrong, come on George, make a Quantum Leap and fix the hopes and dreams of the Star Wars universe!
As far as the Transformers/username insult goes.... :/
I believe I he thinks so. If he insults he thinks he's driving us down a notch...
That may work if I cared what he thought of me. Can guess how much care i've alotted to you scott?
I'll give you a hint...I couldn't care less than to not care at all....
*hefts a model of the Enterprise-E high in the air*
Ladies and gentlemen! OUR WINNER AND STILL CHAMPION! STAR TREEEEEEK!
Anyway, now that that's over with, how about we put this ENORMOUS reserve of brain juice to work on a problem like solving the birth of retarded babies?
WINNER AND STILL CAMPION
STILL HANDING OUT LOLLY POPS, @SS WHOOPINGS:
Ensign Eager: Cargo hold is depleted of lolly pops, sir.
Captain KICK@SS: Then lets get started on those @SSbeatings'
Ensign Eagar: Aye, sir loading quantum torpedoes...
ENEMY VESSEL....
Ensign Eagar: We're being hailed...They've identified themselves as Asgaurd...Sir...they said they don't accept @SSbeatings...
Captain Kick@SS: I gathered from the name....
And the winner is Star trek after sending Scott and all of is other star wars friend running home go hide under their bed, crying about how their star wars sucks. I like to thank Saquist, Kittamaru, grimlockprime and last but not least me. I also like to thank the original trilogy films for helping me kick Scott @ss and prove that he has no idea what he talking about. Also for proving that star wars sucks and trek pawns all! :p
Now final words:
[QUOTE=TW Scott;1344767]
Han got around Darth Vader's danger sense(So now he spider man) by never actually shooting him. He nailed wing man number two and then Wingman number one affected by shockwaves and distraction collided with Vader. You will note that after Vader right his craft it flies perfectly and he is able to Hyperspace jump home.[/QUOTE]
So he can sense when some going to attack him, but yet he cant since that han is going to shoot his wing man thus cuasing him to fly in to him, thus cuasing him to spin out of control? Another words he in idiot? So much for force powers. Better hope he doesn't use thermal detanator. He wont be able to sense the grenade, since it wasn't aimed at him on purpose. Another words vader is stupid noob and force powers are usless. Also star destroyer have one turbo lazer cannon on each ship.
Thanks for the fun times everyone, that was a great debate. Now how about the SG1 vs Andromeda debate??
So this thread is finally over? THANK GOD!
I don't know...there so much out...
I think Star gate over Andromeda....that molecular beam the Asgaurd got would do a number on Andromeda...