Star Wars vs Star Trek

[QUOTE=Saquist;1278294]See that's exactly how I was thinking. I couldn't think what that rear seat could have possibly have been for on that design except for a gunnery position so I just figured it came with the whole Tow cable thing. But the speed does look very civilan patrol oriented and low budget. [/quote]
The non militarized version the seat faces forward, in the refitting the seat is turned around becuase they need the room to mount the targeting gear and controls. Is that really so hard to understand.

[QUOTE]I thought that was intresting.

[B]Oh, so you admit to being a liar and a fraud, alright, nice shot by the way completely ignoring the fact that as we all plainly saw in the movie that the shot that took down the fighter came from the OTHER side of the hangar.[/B]

[B]Scott...[/B]
Whatever gets you through the day.

I just reviewed the movie. You're wrong again. The shots came from the left side of hanger.

[B]That's Three Times a Liar.[/B] And it came from the Tank.
stinks doesn't it when you're caught red handed.[/QUOTE]

Quoted verbatim

You say now that the shots came from the left side of the hangar, right? This is of course as we are over and behind the hangar. The problem is that in the shot you show the Tanks are on the RIGHT side of the hangar from that perspective. Yeah I admit I got caught red handed telling the truth.

[QUOTE]This terminally destroys the Megaton theory and any need for calculations.
Since Trek is a matter of on screen statements concerning Megatons...It looks like the Galaxy Class could take multiple ISD's.[/QUOTE]

Oh you wish see, those are fighters, you know virtually useless on their own versus ISD's. Besides we have scenes from LATER IN THE TIMELINE of Star Destroyers using their Turbolasers to vaporize asteroids. One shot per asteroid which must have taken thousands of times the energy that scrambled the shields of the Enterprise D. Later in the same movie we see the Millenium Falcon take two of these bolts before Han was worried. In ROTJ Mon Cal and ISD stood point blanks sending hundreds of theses blasts back and forth before ships were destroyed.

[B]BY TW SCOTT[/B][QUOTE]Reviewing the scene in slow-motions the shot did much the same thing as the one that crippled the Tantive IV. The rapidly fired twin bolts of energy struck the shields and musch of their enery dissipated , however refracted shards struck R2 lighting him up.[/QUOTE]

-- Then you have an amazing talent for interpretation. What I saw a direct hit of green bolt (small) on the Artoo's dome

[QUOTE]Interesting, I have never claimed the weapons on Fighters to be anything else. It's the turbolasers on the heaver turrets and capital ships that act different. And you can't just blithely claim sub-kiloton firepower (even if you could spell it correctly) You have not seen these weapons used on anything that was not made of Dura-Armor, which canonly has Nuetronium as a componenet.[/QUOTE]

---[B]Statement on Neutronium [/B](talk about spelling, what a dick): Disregared-Lack of Evidence of Cannon.

I [QUOTE]have never claimed the weapons on Fighters to be anything else.[/QUOTE]

---False: your claim was that a Galaxy "maybe able to take out a few fighters" Your claim was indirect but clear towards the fighters offense and defense. All of which the Galaxy out classes by miriads.

[QUOTE]The A-wing did not destroy the SSD Executioner. Continued firepower from a fleet of ships heavily damaged her, then the A-Wing took out the main bridge shorting the ships control for about 30 seconds causing it to crash inot the Death Star II at speed.[/QUOTE]

[B]Statement on Fleet Action:[/B] Disregarded-Lack of evidence.
[B]Statement on Steering Malfunction:[/B] Disregarded- Speculation

[QUOTE]And again, just distortion of facts on your part. You have uttered very little that is not an outright lie or fabrication, not to mention horribly misspelled.[/QUOTE]

[B]Statement of distortion:[/B] Disregarded-Lack of contradictory evidence: claim dismissed.
[B]Statement of Deception:[/B] Anulled by hostile acts and contrary behavior to truthful presentation of evidence.

[B]Statement of Spelling Errors:[/B] Acknowledged and confirmed: Irrelevant

[QUOTE]The work is already done. Lucas says X amount it is X amount my work only confirms it is much more that any Federation vessel could hope to survive.[/QUOTE]

[B]Statements of Lucas:[/B] [I]Pending.[/I] No confirmation of refrenced source information. Hearsay is inadmissable as evidence.

[QUOTE]You say now that the shots came from the left side of the hangar, right? This is of course as we are over and behind the hangar. The problem is that in the shot you show the Tanks are on the RIGHT side of the hangar from that perspective. Yeah I admit I got caught red handed telling the truth.
[/QUOTE]

[B]Statement of Innocence: [/B] Overruled.
Attempts to twist perspectives of viewing the image further inflames your lack of veractiy.

[QUOTE]Oh you wish see, those are fighters, you know virtually useless on their own versus ISD's. Besides we have scenes from LATER IN THE TIMELINE of Star Destroyers using their Turbolasers to vaporize asteroids. One shot per asteroid which must have taken thousands of times the energy that scrambled the shields of the Enterprise D. Later in the same movie we see the Millenium Falcon take two of these bolts before Han was worried. In ROTJ Mon Cal and ISD stood point blanks sending hundreds of theses blasts back and forth before ships were destroyed.[/QUOTE]

[B]Statement on Figher effecitveness:[/B] Disregarded Lack of evidence
[B]Statement on Term "vaporized" :[/B] Disregarded-Lack of evidence
[B]Statement on Firepower: [/B] Disregarded- Lack of comparison to evidence.
[B]Statement on Mon Cal and ISD:[/B] In question. Lack of evidence

Thus far there is a considerable lack of evidence and an abundance of speculation.

[QUOTE=Saquist;1279334][B]BY TW SCOTT[/B]

-- Then you have an amazing talent for interpretation. What I saw a direct hit of green bolt (small) on the Artoo's dome



---[B]Statement on Neutronium [/B](talk about spelling, what a dick): Disregared-Lack of Evidence of Cannon.

I

---False: your claim was that a Galaxy "maybe able to take out a few fighters" Your claim was indirect but clear towards the fighters offense and defense. All of which the Galaxy out classes by miriads.



[B]Statement on Fleet Action:[/B] Disregarded-Lack of evidence.
[B]Statement on Steering Malfunction:[/B] Disregarded- Speculation



[B]Statement of distortion:[/B] Disregarded-Lack of contradictory evidence: claim dismissed.
[B]Statement of Deception:[/B] Anulled by hostile acts and contrary behavior to truthful presentation of evidence.

[B]Statement of Spelling Errors:[/B] Acknowledged and confirmed: Irrelevant



[B]Statements of Lucas:[/B] [I]Pending.[/I] No confirmation of refrenced source information. Hearsay is inadmissable as evidence.



[B]Statement of Innocence: [/B] Overruled.
Attempts to twist perspectives of viewing the image further inflames your lack of veractiy.



[B]Statement on Figher effecitveness:[/B] Disregarded Lack of evidence
[B]Statement on Term "vaporized" :[/B] Disregarded-Lack of evidence
[B]Statement on Firepower: [/B] Disregarded- Lack of comparison to evidence.
[B]Statement on Mon Cal and ISD:[/B] In question. Lack of evidence

Thus far there is a considerable lack of evidence and an abundance of speculation.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but evidence is there and on my side. I have provided it all along for many many pages. The fact is you have provided NOTHING but straw-man, ad hominem and lies.

[B][B]Statement of Innocence: [/B] False
Statement of Evidence Provided:[/B] False: No visual or refrence information ever provided.

Star Trek has proven superior firepower in all the appropriate locations.
Wong and your self have proven that slander and persecution are standard Mode of Operation for Star Wars fans.

The back of the Wong offensive is broken.

Ah, you poor deluded little man. You actually believe putting your arguments in bold face proves something. Sad really.

Saquist you have provided absolutely no evidence and in fact have produced several rather blatant lies. Your claims have no backing first of all and secondly actually go against Star Trek canon. That is when you are not disputing Star Wars Canon. You're rather ineffectual argument style got your predecessor nowhere and I'm not too sorry to say that it has taken you down a similiar path.

[B]RESISTANCE IS FUTLIE[/B]
You mean like Defiant blowing the mess out of a flight of Star Destroyers?
That's one of the things I love about Defiant it's ability to simply smash through the opposition.

You know After I learned just how big the regents Neghvar was it convinced me that Defiant was Star Fleets ultimate weapon. Certainly Valiant kinda put the Defiant class in it's place but Defiant herself event the Sao Paulo was just Demons at warp 8.5.

ONe of my most favorite shots of the Defiant is it blowing the fire out of a Bird of Prey in the way of the Warrior.

I personally have often regarded the Defiant as the most powerfully ship in; Sci Fi history. It's like the US F-14. It'll be around a while.

[B]FROM THIS TIME FORWARD YOUR CULTURES WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE OURS[/B]


[B]Saquist you have provided absolutely no evidence and in fact have produced several rather blatant lies.[/B]
oH!!!
I'ts Bethca Time
It's Betcha Time

And although I've never metcha
I know something you don't know

I Betcha
I Betcha
I Betcha

Ready?
Set?
Here We Go!

"I Betcha can't prove it"
"I Betcha you won't"

Hey all, normally I just lurk enjoying the banter, but this was too hilarious not to pass on.

I was looking on ebay for some Star Trek collectibles and there is this guy who posted a "Star Trek Next Generation Millenium Falcon Paperweight" I mean seriously! Here's the link: cgi.ebay.com/Star-Trek-Next-Generation-Millenium-Falcon-Paperweight_W0QQitemZ320077144686QQihZ011QQcategoryZ37882QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

He even mispelled Millennium! No freakin respect.

[QUOTE=bjornbjorn;1281127]
I was looking on ebay for some Star Trek collectibles and there is this guy who posted a "Star Trek Next Generation Millenium Falcon Paperweight" I mean seriously! Here's the link: cgi.ebay.com/Star-Trek-Next-Generation-Millenium-Falcon-Paperweight_W0QQitemZ320077144686QQihZ011QQcategoryZ37882QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[/QUOTE]

Wow that Millenium Falcon looks cool. It's a pity the Cylons destroyed it.

Ah, I have only to point to you post to prove that your evidence is nonexisitant

The Screen shot from Phantom Menace for existance where you cleverly did not take the scene where the fighter was actually struck. And rather pathetically tried to claim that when I corrected for perspective that I was the one confusing the issue.

Or when you claim a single bolt from the TIE Advanced fried Artoo when we have been shown the ship fires rapidly from two barrels. Then you tried to use a rather twisted bit of logic to prove that becuase a grazing shot from a blaster only wonded a main character and a direct hit form the same type of rifle shorted out Artoo (with no physical damage I might add) that this equaled the bolts that penetrated a shield and literally tore Artoo a new one. Then through the fact that one of the Many, many things that brought down the SSD Executioner was an A-Wing fighter, which an equivalent of a TIE interceptor, you claim that a Turbolaser is low powered.

You have clamed that Intrepid class is the fasted ship in Star fleet and throught Paramount Canon we see that you are indeed wrong. In fact the ship that you claim is one of the slowest actually is the fastest.

Troughout it all you have made not one valid claim about either side. When pressed for proof you balk and sidestep. When presented by facts you attempt to refute them. When presented with proofs you claim to not ackowledge the validity. It's plain to see you argument is "Star Trek Rulz"

HEARSAY: IN ADMISIABLE AS EVIDNECE

That's a common court expectation:
No one heary is gonna take your "word" for it. You've like 4 times in a your, about the blatantly obvious.

So in other words you have no proof.
No visual confirmation of anything you say.

That was an easy win thanks Scott. All I needed for you to do was flap your gums (As usual) and never provided a lick of evidence.

You know what they say, Graphs are killers and it looks like you didn't bring yours.

Tw Scott I think you are taking a bit much out of the who knows section. If they show a tank shooting and then the next sceen a ship blows up, most people will assume the tank shot the ship. I guess there is a little room for debate on whether or not it was the tank or not but how much faith can we put on these things.

the same style of blaster that hit leia dead on shot R2. There is no difference but there is a difference between them and a walker, and a difference between a st walker and a at walker. But what about the st walkers shooting ewoks and leaving them perfectly whole. Even if it did hit the ground near one the blast should have been enormous. Same with the atat's. We have to rely too much on stuff we can't see to make statements on which is more powerfull. None of these arguments are really valid and therefore this argument will become one that the last one to speak will win.

[QUOTE=vcostor;1282460]Tw Scott I think you are taking a bit much out of the who knows section. If they show a tank shooting and then the next sceen a ship blows up, most people will assume the tank shot the ship. I guess there is a little room for debate on whether or not it was the tank or not but how much faith can we put on these things. [/quote]

Excuse me, but the screen shot shown shows a tank from the right side (as you exit the hangar) firing on the fighters. Then the next scene cut shows a shot comeing form the left side (as you leave the hangar) hitting the second fighter out and the ship death spiralling into a crash.


[quote]the same style of blaster that hit leia dead on shot R2. There is no difference but there is a difference between them and a walker, and a difference between a st walker and a at walker. But what about the st walkers shooting ewoks and leaving them perfectly whole. Even if it did hit the ground near one the blast should have been enormous. Same with the atat's. We have to rely too much on stuff we can't see to make statements on which is more powerfull. None of these arguments are really valid and therefore this argument will become one that the last one to speak will win.[/QUOTE]

First off Leia was not hit dead on, more of the blast hit he ablative armor and the wall than hit her.

Second AT-ST the main gun is a pair of heavy repeating blasters like the one ground crew carries. In todays terms it would be to a blaster rifle what an M2HB .50BMG would be to a M-16. Of course whole ewoks are left, same way reasonable whole bodies are left after being shot by a .50BMG

[QUOTE=Saquist;1282091]HEARSAY: IN ADMISIABLE AS EVIDNECE

That's a common court expectation:
No one heary is gonna take your "word" for it. You've like 4 times in a your, about the blatantly obvious.

So in other words you have no proof.
No visual confirmation of anything you say.

That was an easy win thanks Scott. All I needed for you to do was flap your gums (As usual) and never provided a lick of evidence.

You know what they say, Graphs are killers and it looks like you didn't bring yours.[/QUOTE]

I have provided evidence for page upon page. You have provided nothing. You are like Saddam during the second Iraq war, claiming victory despite clear evidence to the contrary. Thus I am done with you untill you provide canon information without bias.

Question for everyone damn crazed fan, who will never live on mars, or have sex with JedI.
(who is JedI??)


Who actually watches this??

Like I said above. Bit much.

[QUOTE]I have provided evidence for page upon page. You have provided nothing. You are like Saddam during the second Iraq war, claiming victory despite clear evidence to the contrary. Thus I am done with you untill you provide canon information without bias.[/QUOTE]

I looked, you only provided your word.
But I haven't claimed victory, have I?
Oh well I guess I might as well, you've go no evidence, anyway.

[QUOTE]Tw Scott I think you are taking a bit much out of the who knows section. If they show a tank shooting and then the next sceen a ship blows up, most people will assume the tank shot the ship. I guess there is a little room for debate on whether or not it was the tank or not but how much faith can we put on these things.

the same style of blaster that hit leia dead on shot R2. There is no difference but there is a difference between them and a walker, and a difference between a st walker and a at walker. But what about the st walkers shooting ewoks and leaving them perfectly whole. Even if it did hit the ground near one the blast should have been enormous. Same with the atat's. We have to rely too much on stuff we can't see to make statements on which is more powerfull. None of these arguments are really valid and therefore this argument will become one that the last one to speak will win.[/QUOTE]

This is all I'm saying.
[IMG][URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2041/republictanksob1.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/IMG]

Obviously this is more.
More of kiloton artillary taking out a Federation Trade battleship. Now dismissing the complete lack of shields.

The armor excuse goes right out the door. But I don't dismiss the shields. I believe they're there. Star wars has no rule on shield impacts being visible. These collasal ships were brought down by kiloton level fire.

Nothing on the scale of Hiroshima but all the same 4 or 5 kilotons. That's just a guess though

[IMG][URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8738/vlcsnap887861nj3.png[/IMG][/URL][/IMG]

Those shots clearly penetrated. We see there ground effects in the Clone Wars Cartoon. No blast...just a simple beam weapon. Phasers and Quantum torpedos would carve these ships up like roast DUCK.

[IMG][URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3230/vlcsnap888328yy4.png[/IMG][/URL][/IMG]

And these ships are huge...there goes the neutroninum theory. Neutronium would practicaly invulnerable to .....everything....No amount of weapon power less than the Death Star exploding could damage it.

More fiction from the Star Wars camp. Or should I say...Fantasy.

[QUOTE][URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7057/vlcsnap884326ab6.png[/IMG][/URL][/QUOTE]

The ground weaponary comes up short too. No Megaton , no Gigaton blast.
And the lines of the battle field are clearly drawn. One good Nuke level blast would level most of the enemy on either side...including their star ships.

[QUOTE][URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/9742/vlcsnap884543ei3.png[/IMG][/URL][/QUOTE]

The initial explosion is small but it blossoms fairly quickly.
[QUOTE][URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8486/vlcsnap884637lw2.png[/IMG][/URL][/QUOTE]

This is equal to about a full size car's weigh in TNT or a large pick up truck, in other words near 2,000 lbs of TNT more than what was used to take down the Oklahoma City Federal Building.

No shock wave...though there should be no mushroom cloud to illistrate a rapid increase in temperture at the core.

I can pull any video image off a DVD...I just gotta have the DVD.

I don't have the phantom menace on DVD just VHS. I'll go out and get it this weekend. But I think that's a waste.

You can slow down your own video and see in the same frame or series of frames that there is a tank there on the left side of the hanger that shoots down the naboo fighter.

If I get it I'll post it. Your eyes are better than any pic.

Strangely with this evidence coming to light It seems that Trek has a vast superiority over Trek. I don't know if the Novel is worth writing if it's not a greater enemy to go up against...that is after all why I wanted to do the story.

[QUOTE=Saquist;1279334]
[B]Statement on Figher effecitveness:[/B] Disregarded Lack of evidence
[/QUOTE]

You want "evidence" that the weapons on a one-man fighter aren't as powerful as the heavy guns on a capitol ship? I'm kind of amazed that you're able to operate a computer well enough to post messages here if your brain is really that damaged.

ok, so we have star trek versus star wars

part 1, material and spanwise differences.

startrek spans 4 galaxies; home, the galaxy the borg originated in, and the dominion's galaxy. the 4th is really a realm instead of galaxy but the space here is infinite. species 8472 is here.

starwars spanns 2, the orinigal, and the vong galaxy, wich is now completely devoid of life.

so we have total resource projection, startrek is assumed 3 times greater in population, while general assumed resources are at startrek 3 to star wars 2. keep in mind taht the vong dont use metal, so its probably safe to assume their galaxy lacks metal. so in raw material you have again startrek 3 to starwars 1.

galaxy wise, startrek's home galaxy is only 2/4ths explored sparsely populated, while the Dominion's and Borgs home galaxies are totaly explored with total populations in the trillions of trillions of trillions of trillions. ( Both borg and Dominion can be grown. Ref, ep. 'Q who?' and every ds9 ep with the dominion. so population can be scientifically infinite)

starwars' home galaxy is at best 3/4 explored, and sparsely popualted. sorry.

so we have starwars pitted agaisnt 2 and a half galaxies. plus whatever 8472 exists in.


part 2, technological differences.

in starwars and startrek there is sheilding. the only difference is in starwars, they dont need sheilding while in FTL travel. in startrek they need it because they are not traveling via subspace.

traveling at warp 9 ( standard cruising speed of Borg Cubes. ) a micrometeor impact at 2.2x10 to the 8th power km/s would release a heck of a lot of energy. far more than the DS2's superlaser can generate.

traveling at warp, ships in the startrek universe use only the less powered navigational deflector sheilding.

thus by rationalization of practical observations, you have basic sheilding of any startrek ship being able to withstand far more energy than any starwars weapon would be able to generate.

but as with any subject there are obvious flaws, but the only flaws here is that it has been noted that the greater the amount of high yield energy at low speed has the nasty habit of being fatal. there is no startrek ship that can go into a sun.

as for redirecting gas-based energy weapons, that should be a pice of pie. or cake.

using this sheild strength as a basis for judging real energy amounts, you would also have to look at how powerful the weapons of the startrek universe would have to be to penetrate those sheilds.

really really really powerful.

part 3, traveling methods.

most basic vessels in the startrek universe use Warp technology. wich is slower than starwars' Hyperdrive.

but unfortunatly, most basic ships are not borg. the borg are known to have subspace wormhole technology wich enables any single borg ship to travel immedeatly to its destination. also, the borg incorporate a total known number of 7 borg wormhole conduits. such a teleportaion device was used by voyager to cross the whole startrek universe in seconds.

no hyperdrive is that fast.

part 4, jedi shmedi.

jedi are able to use the force. it flows. its in most things. ok.

if there was a 'Force' apparent in the startrek universe, someone should have noticed it. Jedi came about some how, and logical deductions says if there was Force in trek, there should be some jedi. but there are no jedi. so to surmise, there is no force in the startrek universe.

so as far as using Jedi and the Force to combat the Borg, you are out of luck, with no force to control in the Trek realm, jedi are powerless.

part 5, the factions.

in all of starwars history, there has never been an allaince between rebel and empire, or the recent enemy of chance. there is allways a good and bad. even the impending doom of ultimate destruction wasn't enough to get the correlians to help out. all of the races are lazy. and more likely to backstab eachother than get anything done.

in startrek, you have multiple instances of entire quadrants uniting aganst a common foe, hell even the Borg teamed up with Voyager to fight 8472.

if anything, a war with starwars would unify all of the entire startrek universe.

part 5, the slaughter

so you now have this picutre of a half galaxy with multiple factions each fighting eachother for power. ( starwars )

and then BOOM! you now have those planets in that galaxy simultaneously assualted by ...lets see....60 Borg cubes each? there is no shred of faith by anyone in the universe that would hope to survive.

and now the borg have enough resources and people to hunt down and destroy any last anything.

survival is not an option, by the time the Cubes are in orbit, there are millions of Drones on the planet. the only option is to destroy the planet. and if wiping out yourself is your choice, then so be it. the problem is you only have 5-6 superweapons to use on thousands of planets.

sorry, starwars, you have been assimilated.

part 6, aftermath.

the Q continum, puts the starwars galaxy in the startrek galaxy's past, as the home galaxy for the Borg. And laughs. Laughs a lot.

the cycle is complete. sorry for the spelling, this was done really fast.