You're the one copping out. You claimed 59mt for the asteroid in "Rise" Where is your script? Where is your rock? And where is your math?
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You're the one copping out. You claimed 59mt for the asteroid in "Rise" Where is your script? Where is your rock? And where is your math?
sorry,i cant find any evidence to the contrary,every source ive found says ''photon torpedo'' not a modded torp,you claim you found evidence against it,but wont post it.
put up or shut up.
I can't post it or risk jail term and a fine. Which much as I like to be right, I am not going to do.
Still you haven't posted any real evidence. No equations. Now snips of video already on the net, no pictures. Nothing. You haven't supported your claim that is so outside of what we have seen Photons do and fail to do.
[QUOTE=TW Scott]I can't post it or risk jail term and a fine. Which much as I like to be right, I am not going to do.
[/QUOTE]
omg,your so full of shit.
its a script from a show that was cancelled years ago.
post the fucking quote,your not that important.
[QUOTE=mars13]omg,your so full of shit.
its a script from a show that was cancelled years ago.
post the fucking quote,your not that important.[/QUOTE]
Are you insane? What if I told you to go do crack? Would you? But this is straw man fallacy by you.
You said it was 59 megatons now prove it. Equations in english no flawed asteroid calculator. If you can't you need to say so and ask for help. Come on you made the claim it was more powerful than we have visually seen. You need to quite sniping and get to work.
[QUOTE=TW Scott]Are you insane? What if I told you to go do crack? Would you? But this is straw man fallacy by you.
You said it was 59 megatons now prove it. Equations in english no flawed asteroid calculator. If you can't you need to say so and ask for help. Come on you made the claim it was more powerful than we have visually seen. You need to quite sniping and get to work.[/QUOTE]
yeah,straw man, me wanting you to show me where they said 100m and ''special ptorp'' as YOU CLAIM is a straw man.
i havent found ANY evidence saying it was anything more then a regular ptorp,and the scaling is pretty accurate,the asteroid was bigger then voyager,and voyager is pretty damn big,and i have no reason to doubt the asteroid calculater,its even from stardestroyer.net and i still think its rather accurate.
How is it possible that we have over 50 pages spent simply trying to yell at mars13? Give it up already, he's hopeless. I've blocked him months ago.
Well I just hate him spewing his vile fecal matter as if it was truth, or even truth of fiction.
I know we have freedom of speach but there are times when you should be held accountable for for lying, perjuring, and generally being a putz.
Mars 13 I didn't make the initial claim, you did. The onus is on you to prove your 59 megaton figure. As well as 300 meters. Not only that you have to prove it is regular photon torpedo, which given the visuals and past comments it simply can't be. Then you have to prove the asteroid is nickel-iron. Which from the pieces on the ground it positively could not be.
i all ready proved it,then you claimed you had evidence to the contrary,but you wont post it because you actualy think youll be arrested for it.
talk about a liar,that is by far the biggest lie ive ever heard.
if your really such a pansy that your afraid youll be arrested for COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT for posting a quote from a 10 year old script of a show that was cancelled years ago,then your a bigger dumbass then i could have imagined,and a coward at that.fucking grow a pair all ready.
you should tell me more about how your computer is better then the one on the enterprise,or how your speculation trumps on screen visuals and dialog.
your supreme bullshit amuses me.
You have proved nothing. You started from a supposition. Then went to a program you knew to be more than a little off. You have made no effort beyond even the barest minimum to even be considered a post. I have at least done the work required and then found the actual results differed from the program you are using, my figures for LTL were much lower. Then I doubled checked and presented it. You have done one of this. None.
And by the way, I happen to stuanchly support copyright law. As an author myself it would be slap in the face to the copyright, which was renewed not to long ago. It takes a set of cajones to support a law even when it detrimental to your desires. I am sick of this Strawman attack on my point and your ad hominem attacks. Especially when you are guilty of far worse than you accuse me of.
[QUOTE=TW Scott]You have proved nothing. You started from a supposition. Then went to a program you knew to be more than a little off. You have made no effort beyond even the barest minimum to even be considered a post. I have at least done the work required and then found the actual results differed from the program you are using, my figures for LTL were much lower. Then I doubled checked and presented it. You have done one of this. None.
And by the way, I happen to stuanchly support copyright law. As an author myself it would be slap in the face to the copyright, which was renewed not to long ago. It takes a set of cajones to support a law even when it detrimental to your desires. I am sick of this Strawman attack on my point and your ad hominem attacks. Especially when you are guilty of far worse than you accuse me of.[/QUOTE]
great,i DONT support any kind of copyright law,they are stupid and childish,i also dont support the patent office because they are the bain of human devolopment.
im a musician and i GIVE my music away,i would never charge people for art.
art is to enrich society,not to make a quick buck.but thats all personal politics and has no basis in this discussion.start a thread in politics if you want to discuss it.
and i have YET to find any evidence supporting that it was anything but a regular ptrop,after reading a few dozen websites that all say ptorp,and not modified photon,im not chnaging my POV,and until i SEE evidence to the contrary,thats what im going to continue to belive it was.
and based on the screen shots of the torp glow immediatly before impact on the asteroid ,that asteroid was clearly as large if not larger the voyager.which is well over 130m wide,and 340m long.
and i havent seen any evidence that the asteroid calculater is wrong,while i do think the majority of of stardestroyer.net is bullshit,the mathmatics are generaly sound,even if the variables that get used are incorrect.
and even if it WAS a 100m asteroid it WAS SUPPOSED to have been vaporized into 1 cm pieces,it wasnt because it was an artificial asteroid compossed of alloys.this STILL puts the power at 25-30MTs.
So, I see TW Scott is now ignoring me when I demonstrate him wrong. Let's do it again.[QUOTE=TW Scott]Mars 13 I didn't make the initial claim, you did. The onus is on you to prove your 59 megaton figure. As well as 300 meters. Not only that you have to prove it is regular photon torpedo, which given the visuals and past comments it simply can't be. Then you have to prove the asteroid is nickel-iron. Which from the pieces on the ground it positively could not be.[/QUOTE]59 MT is low, actually.
Review what was stated in the episode - available courtesy of numerous website reviews of the episode:[quote]Chakotay: "That asteroid should've been vaporised. What happened?"
Kim: "I'm not sure. Sensors showed a simple nickel-iron composition. We shouldn't be seeing fragments more than a centimetre in diameter."[/quote]Here we see that a nickel-iron asteroid should have been vaporized.[quote]Tuvok: "The debris impacted on the largest continent, approximately 500 kilometres fr"om the southern tip."
Ambassador: "The central desert. Fortunately, that region isn't heavily populated."
Tuvok reports the readings from his sensor panel: "Substantial cratering, atmospheric shockwaves, and large concentrations of dust and other stratosphere contaminants."[/quote]And as we can see [url=http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/]here[/url], a 300m asteroid impacting the Earth usually wouldn't be noticed very much outside the immediate area of impact... and then only if it were dense, fast, and coherent.
The [i]already dispersed fragments of a 300m asteroid[/i] impacting an Earthlike planet at typical orbital velocities are not worth describing in terms of atmospheric shockwaves and stratospheric contanimation. Those of you trying to scale it down further are only engaging in shortsighted absurdity; 300m is a [i]low[/i] scaling.
Now, not only does he not have to prove it isn't a regular photon torpedo, but all the evidence points to it being such. It looks and acts [i]exactly[/i] like every other photorp seen in Voyager; the complete lack of any discussion of modifications is firm evidence towards it being a perfectly normal photon torpedo. It is described in script, transcript, and other written references as a photon torpedo; it is clearly a photon torpedo.
Now, re: the asteroid destruction calculator... it has a number of flaws, and it is quite simplistic. It's usually not more than an order of magnitude off, though, provided you're using it to describe an appropriate asteroid destruction, and it's relatively easy to correct the results to get reasonably good results if you have fairly coherent (i.e., non-"rubble pile") asteroids.
hes just going to call you a liar,and then claim that the fbi will bust in his door for posting a quote from a 10 year old script.
or he will bitch about how the asteroid was only 100m,or how that photon was modified or something stupid like that,and then bitch about how WE are supposed to prove HIS claims.
i find it funnier to ridicule him for thinking his ASSUMPTIONS outrank visuals and dialog of ds9.[of course if there were more then 20 ships,even thou only 20 are seen,then they would have been cloaked and unable to fire anyway] :D
Actually, I think I will just reignore the two imbeciles who do not understand the term vaporization. I don't have to worry that anyone will believe what they type. It was just a failed effort to educate two people and improve their debating style.
Now lets take a more conservative look at the firepower of the Imperial Star Destroyer. I have conflicting reports of armament. Some people claim 60 Turbolasers, 60 Ion Cannons, and 60 Assualt Concussion Missile luanchers. Others claim the above plus 100+ Light turbo lasers. Still others claim all above plus 16 heavy turbolasers. Now even if the first is the case this means 180 weapons without the resort to fighters, blastboats, and strike cruisers.
well he was proved dead wrong and decided to run away and pout.
typical warsie.
allthou,you can have all the firepower in the world,but if you cant hit anything beyond a few KMs with any accuracy it doesnt matter.they have all those guns cause aiming is too much trouble for a storm trooper.
yoda is a 900 year old virgin,
and kirk is king stud pimp of the universe.
thats what this is all about.
Making unwarrented assumptions, presenting statements without proof.
Typical trekkie. Except not, more like a typical marsie. So who is winning, mars trek, star trek, or starwars ? ;)
[QUOTE=mars13]i GIVE my music away,i would never charge people for art.[/QUOTE]
Which is why you fail. Eternally.
[QUOTE=TW Scott]Actually, I think I will just reignore the two imbeciles who do not understand the term vaporization. I don't have to worry that anyone will believe what they type. It was just a failed effort to educate two people and improve their debating style.[/quote]TW Scott, knock off the personal attacks, wouldja?
Now, the term "vaporization" is used directly in the dialogue. That a nickel-iron asteroid of the size seen in "Rise" [i]should[/i] have been vaporized by a photon torpedo is a canonical fact established by Chakotay.[quote]Now lets take a more conservative look at the firepower of the Imperial Star Destroyer. I have conflicting reports of armament. Some people claim 60 Turbolasers, 60 Ion Cannons, and 60 Assualt Concussion Missile luanchers. Others claim the above plus 100+ Light turbo lasers. Still others claim all above plus 16 heavy turbolasers. Now even if the first is the case this means 180 weapons without the resort to fighters, blastboats, and strike cruisers.[/QUOTE]And the number of actual TL bolts fired in combat is pretty low compared to that. So what?
The number of weapon mounts doesn't really matter here. What matters is what they can [i]do[/i] with them.
The mid-sized turbolasers of an ISD - their usual weapons used - can maybe vape a 30m asteroid. Generously, if the big guns are a thousand times as powerful - they seem to do similar damage to unshielded ships - they could maybe vape a 300m asteroid. The photon torpedos of UFP ships can definitely vape a 300+ m asteroid, matching the most generous estimates we can reasonably squeeze out of it.
You want impressive firepower in Star Wars, you want a Death Star. Nothing else will do if you want to look impressive next to Star Trek ships.
[QUOTE=Hapsburg]Which is why you fail. Eternally.[/QUOTE]
i fail? at what,being an artist that lives by his principles?no,im doing exactly as i planned in that department.
you just mad cause you get laid as much as a jedi,mean while us trekkies emulate kirk in that dept.
[QUOTE=Fafnir665]Making unwarrented assumptions, presenting statements without proof.
Typical trekkie. Except not, more like a typical marsie. So who is winning, mars trek, star trek, or starwars ? ;)[/QUOTE]
oh yeah heres a gem,and im sure you agree with twscotts ASSUMPTION that there were more then 20 ships at the founders hoemworld as being more valid then the visuals of the fucking episode.I count the ships,YOU assume theres a diffrent number,so I am the one making things up?idiot.
and currently,trek is winning as a SD cant beat a cube,and your out numbered 500-1 by them,then theres 90% of the galaxy left.