String theory is advanced

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by dummy_, May 21, 2012.

  1. dummy_ Banned Banned

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    String theory is a necessity

    Who here works with strings on a regular basis? I'd like to know how much progress have leading experts made in the last 12 years since the turn of the millenium.


    Also, can string theory be said to be genius?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
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  3. prometheus viva voce! Registered Senior Member

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    A couple of us worked / work on string theory. My PhD which I finished in October last year was on string theory but since then I've been working on other things, specifically NMR spectroscopy and signal processing.

    String theory is quite a big subject - lots of progress has been made, a lot of which you won't understand or care about because string theory is highly technical and despite all the work that's gone into it, still quite poorly understood.

    My work was involved with how string theory is related to gauge theories like QCD, which AFAIK is quite a popular area for string theory research. This area was first discovered in about 1995, when one guy found that in one limit one string theory becomes one supergravity theory that is related to one gauge theory. Now loads and loads of dualities between supergravity theories and gauge theories are known and it's almost possible to decide what properties you want the gauge theory to have and then construct the supergravity model to match.

    "string theory" and "genius" are both nouns, so no string theory and genius are not synonymous. If you mean was the guy that came up with string theory a genius, or is string theory an extremely important and revolutionary idea than I would say "no" and "not yet." Genius is a word that is thrown around far too liberally, and I don't think string theory can really be attributed to one person anyway.
     
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  5. Farsight

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    String theory is somewhat discredited these days. See Peter Woit's blog where you can read things like "The hiring season is not yet over and not all the data is in, but so far the Rumor Mill shows no job offers to string theorists at all".

    No. It has delivered no benefit despite thousand of man-years of effort. It can however be said to be vainglorious conceit. Sadly people like prometheus are the victims of this.
     
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  7. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Registered Senior Member

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    I do like how you'll call string theory discredited when it's still the most regularly published topic on ArXiv and the highest h-index physicists are populated significantly by string theorists but you still harp on about your work somehow being valid when ...... well I can't think of anything it's accomplished.

    Spoken like someone with no knowledge of the subject and no desire to gain any lest it shatter his skewed view of the world.

    Come back when you're a touch less dishonest Farsight. No one misses you.
     
  8. Farsight

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    Dummy: as you doubtless may have gathered, Alphanumeric has a PhD in string theory too. Check out this site for a bit more on how string theory is thought of these days. Also see The Trouble with Physics, a book by Lee Smolin of the Perimeter Institute:

    "The Trouble With Physics is a 2006 book by the theoretical physicist Lee Smolin about the problems with string theory. Subtitled The Rise of String Theory, the Fall of a Science, and What Comes Next, the book strongly criticizes string theory and its prominence in contemporary theoretical physics, on the grounds that string theory has yet to come up with a single prediction that can be verified using any technology that is likely to be feasible within our lifetimes."

    It's good that you're doing your own research on this, my advice is to cast your net wide and obtain a variety of views. Make sure you don't just ask string theorists.
     
  9. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Well one could at least consider them highly proficient in mathematical modelling, right? But as I see it, there's such a massive gap between the cutting edge of experimental and theoretical physics, that we're apt to soon reach a dead end without an unforeseen miracle popping up in the presently testable energy ranges, or an unforeseen theoretical breakthrough leading to a new kind of test. I've been told that even when it comes to gauge theory dualities the assumptions are rather narrow. Pretty disheartening stuff, really.
     
  10. prometheus viva voce! Registered Senior Member

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    Peter Woit is an idiot who hasn't done any physics at all since the 70's. For some reason he seems to have an axe to grind over string theory and that is now all he does. It's almost as productive and beneficial as going around internet forums promoting your own theory, perhaps giving it a name that is reminiscent of a successful theory in an effort to enhance it's credibility?

    It just shows you really don't know what you're talking about (as if any more proof were needed). There have been a number of very important steps in our understanding of gauge theories which would have been impossible without string theory, and I know this because my PhD relied on some of these results.

    I would hardly call myself a victim either - in the worst economic crisis for nearly a century I got a job within 3 months and one of the reasons was that I had a PhD in string theory.
     
  11. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    3,576
    It might help if the topic encouraged discussion of what String Theory states and what it will take to test it.
    For myself, I have only the knowledge on it one gains in reading the internet... which we all know how reliable that is...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    For example, Prometheus, it's still fresh in your mind, really.
    And AlphaNumeric has a phd in it... Most science forums don't even have one phd in string theory available...
     
  12. Farsight

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    That's really the problem, neverfly. You never get that discussion or the predictions. A new approach doesn't need to be clearly defined or offer crisp predictions initially, we can cut it some slack. But when decades have elapsed and thousands of man-years have gone into it for no clear benefit, one has to call time eventually. That's what's happened with string theory, sadly leaving guys like prometheus and Alphanumeric in the lurch. They've been betrayed, and the tragedy of it IMHO is that history will eventually show where it took a wrong turn and morphed into M-theory rather than "quantum harmonics". Anyway, the guys are particularly unhappy with me because of the plain-vanilla experimentally-connected fundamental physics I talk about, and my username. Use the search-inside feature on Amazon.co.uk and look for "seer" inside The Trouble with Physics. Farsight? Seer? Geddit? I adopted that username back in 2002 on a share-trading website called ADVFN, the idea being that I was farsighted at stockpicking. It kind of stuck. It's one of those little cosmic jokes I suppose. LOL. And I do I talk to some really interesting people.
     
  13. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    Assuming what you say is accurate, there is no betrayal. To explore science is to explore. You won't always find what you're looking for, but you've still stretched your reach.

    Your opinion, at this time, is that String is a dead end- and I appreciate your input and I'd like more, too.
    Including from those who say they are in the lurch. In fact, theirs may carry some weight as they work with it regularly.
     
  14. Farsight

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    They were betrayed, Neverfly. Their physics career has ended before it's begun because of string theory: "The hiring season is not yet over and not all the data is in, but so far the Rumor Mill shows no job offers to string theorists at all". They're programmers now, on the very fringe of science rather than at the leading edge. It will be years before they finally wise up and say if only I'd listened. And in the meantime, they'll take it out on me.
     
  15. prometheus viva voce! Registered Senior Member

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    FYI I'm still paid to do physics research. What about you farsight? What do you do for a living? It certainly isn't physics.
     
  16. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    BTW -- The Strings 2012 early registration discount is about to disappear. Act now and save 100 Euros.
     
  17. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    This sounds personal to me and I have enough personal arguments on the forum to not want to get involved.

    Farsight, thoughout the past century many avenues were explored in opening fields. Some were failures some abysmally so- such as Tesla.Perhaps if Tesla had better guidance early on, he may have had more success. Then again, maybe it was just his nature.
    And there are true crackpots- like Sitchin.


    You've reiterated what you've already said and personally, I think it is way too soon to be discounting things just yet.
     
  18. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Registered Senior Member

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    Wow, are you ever dishonest.

    Firstly Prom and I are happy to talk about the details of string theory, including it's application to modelling and predicting physically observable things like high strength gravitational fields, quark-gluon plasmas and meson spectra.

    Besides, I have been asking you for half a decade to provide one, just one phenomenon in the real world your work can model. Honestly, 5 years! And you have never answered it. So your attempt to complain about string theory while you're a 'farsighted' person is not just laughable, it makes you look delusional.

    How did it leave either of us in the lurch? Both of us got jobs within weeks or months of entering the job market and in both cases the string theory nature of our PhDs was a plus. In my case I'm still in the research community, doing things where my knowledge gained from my PhD is having direct application to real world problems. There are objects in space which I've been involved in the development of. There will, in a few years, be things on other planets likewise. In the 2 years I've been at my current job I've already got myself to the head of the research team. And why? Because I'm creative and productive when it comes to mathematical physics problem solving.

    Unlike you Farsight, I get paid to do what I do. I don't have to pay to get myself to the attention of people who have physics problems, they come to us and give me money.

    Now you're just inventing whole cloth things to match your, seemingly increasingly delusional, view of the world. Before this morning I thought you were just a bit of an egotistical nut, now you're coming off as detached from reality.

    You have no 'experimentally connected fundamental physics'. As I said, I've been asking you for half a decade to provide a single model of a real world phenomenon based on your work and you can't provide it.

    Seriously, I don't know what you could possibly think we have to be unhappy about. Both of us put food on the table and a roof over our heads thanks to our string theory PhDs. Both of us are involved in science. I'm doing things, which include quantum mechanics and fluid mechanics, for high tech companies where the real world results speak for themselves. Then look at you. You're stuck saying "People are jealous of my username! I'm a seer!" and whining on forums. Really? If you think that's an accomplishment then you've been a much larger failure at life than I ever suspected. You've spent your own money to be ignored by every professional competent research who have come across your 'work'. In the 5 years you've been whining about 'explaining [something]' some of us, like myself, Prom and Ben, got those string theory PhDs you used to claim would 'black mark' us, immediately got jobs (in, as Prom says, the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression) and moved on with our lives.

    I'm honestly worried you're now going to a new level of weird. Seriously, you're trying to make it out that there's something deep to your username? If I made a new account and called myself 'King of Prussia' would that mean I'm more likely to really be the King of Prussia?

    Frankly your username has always seemed a bit of a joke to me. It's clear you believe yourself 'farsighted' but the reality is obviously quite different.

    Wow, are you honestly pulled a 'Terry Giblin', where the fact you've been in the same room with someone somehow is supposed to elevate you? And do you think no one else speaks to some 'really interesting people'?

    You clearly have a somewhat unrealistic and overly rosy view of yourself, despite having no basis for it. For years you've tried to take pot shots at those of us who have done string theory research. You said it would be a black market on our CVs. It wasn't. You complained it doesn't have any experimental applications. It does. And also your work doesn't, a fact you are desperate not to acknowledge. It's okay, people can read my posts, whether or not you reply to them, so even if you aren't honest and man enough to admit it everyone who sees my reply can see you're dishonest. You've claimed we've been 'left in the lurch' when in fact every one of us has got a job extremely quickly (especially given the current economic climate), while your work has actually cost you significant amounts of money to self publish and not a single reputable journal has picked it up, despite you taking adverts out in physics magazines! Wow, paying for adverts. People pay me to listen to what I have to say about maths and physics, I don't pay them. I could explain some of the new physics I've done in detail but I'm bound by NDAs and, in some cases, national security.

    Seriously, I love my job, I love doing new maths and physics and I'm good at it, a fact reflected by the actions of my employer and the clear concrete working results which I produce. I bought my first home 6 months ago too. If I had listened to you and packed in my string theory PhD none of this would be possible.

    Your posts smack of you trying to convince yourself you've not utterly failed. That everyone is jealous of you and your 'farsight'. From what I can see every one of us string theorists have moved on and up in the 5+ years you've been whining to us. From what I can tell you've done nothing but burn your own money and get banned from loads of forums for spamming your work.
     
  19. Farsight

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    Don't. I don't want to get involved either.

    Sorry, I thought you said you were doing programming for medical scanners. I do IT work for a living. Physics is just a hobby.

    I'm pleased to hear it. But please, spare me the tirade. Say your piece in a couple of sentences and get on with the physics.

    Now, can we get on with the physics please?
     
  20. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Registered Senior Member

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    Struggled to think of a come back did we? Remember how you once asked me sarcastically "Got a job yet? Is it in physics?" and my reply was "Yes and yes". You slinked away after that too.

    My 'tirade' was because of your complete dishonest and frankly delusional view of the world. Your claims about black marks on our CVs was wrong. Your claims it would kill research careers was wrong. Your claims string theory has nothing to say about experimental phenomena was wrong. Your claims about how we should have listened to you was wrong. Your claims about string theory becoming dead was wrong.

    I mentioned that there's no string theory jobs to a colleague of mine, someone who also has a string theory PhD. He said "I'm not surprised, the combination of the downturn and the LHC hoovering up so many people and so much money are probably to blame". There's a general collapse in the scientific funding across the Western world. In the UK EPSRC now considers the only maths really worth funding 'applied statistics'. Any sane person would tell them the mistake they are making but such are the powers that be. So saying "there's less string theory jobs!" as if to say it's dying is disingenuous, given there's less science jobs in general.

    Sure, how about you provide one, just one, phenomenon in the real world your work can accurately describe. Show how you derived the model in question and demonstrate it's experimental accuracy. Failure to do so will result in additional 'pointing and laughing' and shouts of "You massive hypocrite!". Unfortunately, before you run off to an admin to complain people are insulting you, if you can't provide such things then me calling you a hypocrite is a statement of fact.

    But hey, perhaps if you can't retort my explanation of why you're dishonest, out of touch and a hypocrite you could always tell everyone how you could beat me at arm wrestling. After all, you tried that line of 'reasoning' with BenTheMan once.

    So, can we get on with the physics then or are you going to demand of others something you will not do yourself? Besides, enough chat, this quantum mechanics I'm finishing off this evening isn't going to solve itself!
     
  21. dummy_ Banned Banned

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    45
    I assume that strings are real to begin with. But if they yeild mathematically accurate descriptions we can assume they are real.
     
  22. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    That's the epistemology of methodological naturalism. Things required by the most parsimonious physical theory that covers the totality of observation are assumed to exist until a better physical theory exists. That's why in the 19th century one didn't need direct evidence of atoms when chemistry and thermodynamics were only making sense if they did exist.
     
  23. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    :cheers: A belated congratulations for a HUGE accomplishment.

    Here's a pretty good overview you may find helpful:

    http://superstringtheory.com/basics/index.html
     

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