THE REAL [GOD] = ALLAH ...... join here you all need to know

You're a better man than me, Gunga Din.

Then again...

That would be the easy solution, but somewhat wasteful of a perfectly good nuke. Besides, we'd be no better than they.

No, I'd rather spend a thousand years trying to get through to them, to get them to see that abandoning religion and turning their thoughts and resources to that of mankinds needs is the only way we'd survive.

As corny as that sounds, its engrained in the membrane.

 

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Respect for a person does not come in the form of giving them utmost freedom to do whatever they wanted. To encourage what is best for them and to discourage what is harmful to them is the best form of respect for any one. Islam does nothing but ban what is degrading, dishonorable, and harmful to people, while encouraging and praising actions which lead to a healthy and happy life.

Take for the example the issue of abortion. Many Muslim women do not want to do this and certainly do not need to. Many Muslim women would not object to a law banning this practice. This goes for all issues of women's rights in Islam.

In Islamic culture, it is dishonorable to cut your hair past a certain length to where a woman resembles a man. Wearing jeans is okay, however wearing tight revealing jeans as many women wear in the West is completely against Islam for obvious reasons.

Most Muslim women care little for what anyone else would say about how they live. If they choose to live this way. Who are you to tell them how to live?

Indeed, many Muslim weddings have dancing and partying in them, however women and men are seperated. Women and men can mingle and dance even if they are part of the same extended family. Again this is a rule of Islam which is preserving chastity and preventing the possibility of an affair, thus making a healthy family and healthy marriages. The problem of dancing with a member of the opposite sex is the fact that it promotes sexuality between two individuals who should not have such feelings.

No, dancing with opposite sex is against islam for male or female, with the exception of family. Men are under the same restrictions as women. Clubs are forbidden places for Muslims to attend.

I have lived in England and United States, but I am originally from the Middle East.

 

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If what you said is true, then I hope you weren't as disrespectful to them of their beliefs as you are to me. That would be very shameful indeed to be a guest in a house and say such things. You obviously don't see where Muslims are coming from and can't sympathize with us. When you travelled, did you stay in your isolated American hotels away from the populace? Or are you a Jewish Zionist, which would explain your anti-Islam bias?

My negative assuptions of you have to do with what you say. Using this as an excuse is clearly a silly tactic which only people in desperation use. If they have already been proven false, then why are you still talking to me?

Because Muslims agree with Shariah and want it practiced to a larger degree, not a lesser degree.

If that's true, then this proves the thickness and hatred/bigotry in your heart. You hate Muslims even though you lived with them. You can't be much more hateful than that?

Islamic people's political weakness is not due to Islam, it is due to oppression and subjugation from the West for 200 years. I blame the West because they are a party to this along with their puppets in the Muslim world.

Only to those who don't want to listen.

To raise his Islamic credentials among the unhappy Muslims of the world. It's not like claiming himself to be a custodian of mosques will erase all the injustices he has done to Muslims in helping them bow to his will and the will of the West.

Have you really lived with Muslims? I'm very much skeptical now. However, it's not like you haven't lied before, so it's very much possible you are lying to win this argument.

Replace 'infidels' with 'Muslims' and replace 'Islam' with 'the West.'

The pen is mightier than the sword.

 

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I don't hate the West at all. As a matter of fact I have many westerners as friends from America, Canada, England, and many other European countries that I visited but not lived in. What I hate is the West's meddling in the Muslim world and Western genocide against Muslims. I did live in the West because I have family that lives there trying to make a living and sending money home to the family in my homecountry. I have seen amny kind and considerate people in the West who just lack knowledge of Islam and are used by their governments and media stations. I envy alot of the comfort and extravagance of the West, but you have to understand that the reason the West can live in such extravagance is because it has robbed the rest of the world, particulary the third world which includes all Muslim nations. Intereference and genocide of my people is what I am against. I don't like the Western culture because it has many problems, but I definately don't hate the West either.

In America, I have extensively visited many different groups of people and their leaders. I have a sympathy of the oppressed among the Native Indians, the African Americans, Mexicans, and the Muslims living in America today. Many injust actions are daily taken against these people which is obscene and vile. From the daily killing and lynchings of Mexican immigrants to the common beating of Blacks by New York police forces. In England, I have also seen how Asian, African, and Arab Muslims are discriminated daily and made to live from fear of parties like the British Nationalists. The people who have felt pain have every right to disagree with these policies. Not everyone is happy about Western policies, and many good people in the West stand up to it.

I believe as Islam teaches, justice isn't reserved for a white race or any other race. Justice should be equal for everyone. A free society is where people can live happily without worrying that the police can plant evidence against them or charge with terrorism and send to prison for a minor immigration violation. The West has a long way to go before it is a free society and recently the trend is going toward authoritarianism, in the opposite direction.

People have various reasons to come to the West. Some for need of money to help their family survive, some for meeting relatives, others for making a promise to their families to study. It is wrong for people to criticize others if they go somewhere for need. In short, if your society is free, why do you have a problem that people different than you come here?

The Middle East has people from all areas of the world, traders, merchants, and we don't discriminate. We have learned to respect others and especially because of Islam preaches brotherhood, we don't care of skin color or race. Islam changed us and made us better. The fact that there are Muslims in the West is a blessing for you, not a curse. Muslims are among the kindest and most sincere people you will ever meet. I encourage all of you to go out to meet the mosque leaders and you will see smiles and handshakes. Islam will lighten your heart and remove your hatred. Allah cares for you, that is why he has given your Muslims in your countries so you may learn peace and mercy. Islam is here for each and every one of you. It's not a religion for only people born in in it, you too can also experience the love and caring nature of Islam.

For more information visit:

http://www.themodernreligion.com/index1.html

http://convertstoislam.org/


"O my soul! It is not, except a few days of patience;
As if the extent were but a few dreams.
O my soul! Pass quickly on through this world;
And leave it, for indeed life lies ahead of it."
-Imam Shafi'i

 

Are we talking about a child here? You think a fully grown adult needs you to tell them what's best for them, (merely because they're a woman)?

Not to mention that your examples were simply ludicrous.. not being allowed to have short hair, show their face, or dance..

C'mon Diamond, we weren't debating them strapping bombs to their chest and detonating themselves, but getting a haircut. Don't give me the "respect" crap over something as trivial as that.

"we're so respectful to our women".. lol yeah right.

Such as haircuts. Lol.

Slightly different to getting a haircut, but then abortion is a long debate in itself. As men we really cannot answer for women.

Why? And since when did a short haired woman resemble a man? She still has boobs no? Do your women have facial hair?

Is it also forbidden for a man to have long hair?

Why? You don't appreciate the female form?

Umm.. lol, I'm doing no such thing.. you are, your country is.. and that's what I'm debating against.

It does? It's impossible for a man and woman to be together without them having to bonk each other?

I suppose if it prevents there being more muslims in the world, I'm all for it.

Your earlier statements imply otherwise.

Understandable. Just like I hate muslims messing with my country. Can you ask them all to leave please, or should I do as they would do and chop their heads off?

Oh please. Our country is far too nice when you actually open your eyes. A bunch of muslims free to burn the English flag and yet if I went to Iraq and burnt their flags, would I still have a head? We give you housing, money, education while allowing you to remain dressed in the rags that you call clothes. We don't force you to pledge allegiances or adopt our culture and nobody ever forced any of you to come here in the first place.

So you all come over here in your thousands and then have the blatant fucking audacity to insult my country.

And they have every right to uhh... fuck off home. They weren't forced to come here were they? Who gave them a home because they're being opressed in their own country and had to escape? If they don't like the way our country works.. leave.

Only because there's a bunch of muslims going round blowing up innocent women and children.

I don't. What I have problem with is us giving you everything, and the best you can do is then turn around and insult my country. A thank you would have sufficed. Instead all we get are bombs and burnt flags.

No, you just behead.

No it isn't.

Utter bollocks.

And around 16lb of explosive device under his shirt.

Please, you're making me vomit.

I probably wont experience it, because since July I no longer catch trains.

 

I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone who uses religion as a way of life. Even more so when they use religion to oppress and divide people.

And that statement gives me good reason to show no sympathy. It's all just black and white to you, isn't it?

Your treatment of women is reprehensible, I must make you see that.

Sharia law is barbaric and unjust. It treats women as third class citizens, or more precisely, pieces of furniture; chattel. Sharia law is merely one step up from slavery. You take the fanatical ravings of a murderous lunatic who claims to have been spoken to by an angel, and use them to make laws. It is the complete embodiment of fantasy meets lunacy.

Still can't take responsibility for your own shortcomings, how very sad and very typical. You live a life based on fantasy and then have the gall to blame others for your problems.

Ok, "Yes, they are Muslims if they don't agree with the West. Divide and alienate."

It still has the same meaning and leads to the same conclusion. What's your point?

Fantasy, however, does not preclude reality. You may bleat all you want about Islam but you'll always be bleating from a standpoint of faith, none of it having any connection or relevance to reality.

The reality of Islam has been shown for what it has achieved; the barbaric oppression of people, the death of the brain for its intended purpose and the utter contempt it has for anyone who does not agree. It will be the end of all mankind if allowed to spread. It must be stopped.

 

The blind can't see, no matter how much light one shines on their cave, when he/she have been blinded by deceit, lies, and these have been a way of life, everything objectionable of their views, is then taken as gesture of intolerance for their way, even though one trying to explain that "their way" is amoral, injust, and degrading.

At least they all don't think alike.

Here's a list of former islamist who have lashed out at the injustice done to them by this evil, and repugnat religion!.

The Bitter Lament of a Muslim Woman

Islam’s Shame

Egalitarian Islam and Misogynist Islamic Tradition: A Critique of the Feminist Reinterpretation

Women and Islam

Might as well gave you the links there were too many to post each individual story!.

DiamondHearts are all these former Islamic people lying?

Godless

 

LOL. Can't help but share your grief, Snake...

 

Being a Muslim I have a first hand experience of all the teachings of Islam and all that I say is from my study of Quran majeed and sirat an nabi. The fact that you people want to dissuade me, and more so the readers on this forum from Islam with lies and hypocrisy is an unholy objective. As a Muslim, I will tell all you the truth of Islam with my direct knowledge of it from reading Quran and Sunnat, and listening to the great wise scholars of Islam. Anyone who knows the true meaning of Islam is someone who has peace in their heart and whose actions are those of kindness and love for humanity.

It is only racists and haters among the enemies of Islam that present Islam with a negative image. There is a lie in the West that it is Muslims who portray Islam as a violent religion. This is completely false. The reason being that it is not befitting of an occupier and oppressor to insult those who seek to be free of occupation. Even secular, political struggles in the Muslim world have been misinterpreted as being because of Islam. The Palestinian struggle thorough the reaign of the leader Yasser Arafat is a prime example. Anywhere a Muslim kills someone, it is interpreted as being from Islam, even if it is a monetary dispute or rivalry. The western media jumps to portray the image of Islam in negative light, and some of the people on this forum are just their little cronies. However, the resurgence of Islamic activism and Islamic zeal is due to the fact of a Western threat against the culture and survival of the Middle East. Resistance is natural when under threat. Iraqis or Afghanis cannot be blamed for beheading occupying foreignors who came into their land illegally to wage war, kill civilians, and seize oil for themselves.

We say this same type of scenario play out when the United States fought Japan in the Pacific. Everyday, newspapers would jump to promote war and invent lies to oppress the poor Japanese Americans. The Japanese Americans suffered intense abuse and mistrust from the American populace. No one cared for them, and then finally they were put in internment camps, their properties were seized, and they lived like slaves. When they got out, they had nothing left to go to. The Americans did not do anything for them. The Japanese Americans, most of who did not have any connections to the Japanese emperor, wondered why their fellow Americans did not stand up for them when they faced such oppression. Muslims are in a similar predicament. The massive negative, hate-mongering of the media and governments of the West are bringing this state of seige over the Islamic people and their culture. Afghanistan and Iraq are war ravaged and in a humanitarian crisis just like post-war Japan. However, this war is not going to end just there, it will expand tot he rest of the Islamic world. The only difference is the Muslim people are far greater numbers and have a long recent history of resilience and patience under the greatest of odds.

Islam is a religion which many people tried to destroy in history, but Islam always made a comeback. The earliest being the Roman and Babylonian Empires. Islam emerged under attack but overcame its enemies and has been described as having spread like wild fire across the known world. Muslim Traders, Muslim scholars, Muslim justice in war, and Muslim travellers brought Islam to various parts of the world and even now Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world with massive conversion rates, even the fastest growing the West rallying the poor and minorities for justice and honor. Muslims also felt the invasion of the Crusaders who indiscriminately killed Muslims, Jews, and Eastern Christians. The aftermath resulted in the emergence of the famed Islamic leader Salahuddin Ayubi (Salahdin the Helper) who was seen as a leader who freed the people of the Middle East from violent and oppressive Crusader control. Salahuddin was kind to both his enemies and those who desired ill of him, he was a firm Muslim and became a hero and model to all Muslims afterwards. In this is an example for those who think.

And what of the invasion of the Mongolian armies into the Islamic world, what became of that? The Mongols completely destroyed the Islamic capital, which was Baghdad at that time. They killed as indiscriminately as the Crusaders, killing women, children, and the elderly in particular. The rivers of Baghdad flowed red with the blood of Muslims. The giant library of Baghdad was destroyed and books were thrown in to the rivers, mixing in black ink with the red blood of human beings. The Mongols massacred and stole form the Muslims for a while. The Muslim zeal increased and Islamic resistance movements were formed. After a number of years, the Mongols themselves embraced the Islamic religion and became from the most tyrannical leaders to peaceful and loving leaders such as the Khanates of Iran, Central Asia, and India. They spread Islam in the world and were loved by many. This was called the golden age of India and Central Asia. Under them, Baghdad was made even more lovely, and Bukhara, Uzbekistan became the center of Islamic study of the Islamic world.

The Islamic world has a long history of defeat and eventual conquest. And when the Muslim world concentrates all their efforts, then the entire world feels their impressions. Once you wake the Islamic resistance, then there is no stopping it. As time proves again and again, Islam can overcome all challenges and the history tells us that Islam is destined for success. Allah will make His religion dominant.

The reason for the love and devotion that Muslims have for their religion is directly due to the teachings of the Quran and the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him). We are convinced this is the truth. Islam provides justice for all, men, women, children, elderly, white, black, everyone. Islam is open to all who want to share in its richness. The time will come when you will have no choice but to recognize the truth of Islam in front of Allah, subhana wa taala, on the day of judgement. Why would you risk an eternity of Hell for not following Islam and promoting hatred of the Creator's chosen people. Why not accept truth when it is evident? Allah will judge all with justice according to their actions and belief. If you do not recognize Allah as the Supreme Lord, how will you stand before him in the Afterlife. My friends, Islam was made for you. Do not be tempted with the devil's words of hatred and prejudice. Instead embrace humility and you too can learn enlightenment and prosperity.


[10.44] Surely Allah does not do any injustice to men, but men are unjust to themselves

May Allah give you Mercy. peace.

 

You meant the fanatics, racists and haters WITHIN Islam.

You're welcome.

 

wow.......... Its been months since i last entered the site, still this thread is continued to be posted at........

but just as a fast reply, its becoming mentally irritating that peolpe are insisting to blame a whole mass of people for a crime some commit..... can we get over this already.......

hypothetically speaking, we'r all intelligent enough to tell the differences here, so move on, do something useful with ur life... will u!

 

Just a quick point:

This would come under "bias" classification.

Let's say for example that I was a satanist. I could sit down and "tell you the truth of satanism", and make it sound all squeaky clean and wonderful. But that is bias - because I agree with satanism no matter how anyone else perceives it and will undoubtedly excuse it's bad parts in order to try and make it look 'cool' to the masses.

The simple fact of the matter is that many muslims are currently going round blowing people up - including their own people. Every single day of the week there is another news report about another muslim suicide bomber and a bunch of dead innocents.

That points at a distinct problem with muslims and their beliefs. To blow yourself up, (and other people), is evidence enough that there is a serious problem.

You can coat it with sugar as much as you like, it doesn't change the facts.

 

Small minority? Something to think about:

I watched a disturbing video a few years back. As I recall, the video was shot in Lebanon of all places; you had men and children, dancing in the streets, cutting their foreheads, screaming: "Death to america!" Think about that for a second.

*pause*

Now, this wouldn't be a problem if it were only a select few, but the camera panned out, and there must have been 100k arabs raising their arms in unison, screaming "death to america!" What am I, what are you, what are "we" suppose to think when we see these kinds of demonstrations take place?

For the record, I believe in god. However, the thread starter does not portray a good picture for religion as a whole. Instead of condemning violence, he justifies it.

Mohammed: Sorry bud, but I ain't buying what you're selling. Peace be upon you, literally.

 

After reading my old post I found a mistake. I'd like to correct it.

I wrote: It is better for them not to cover, but if they don't, then they are still the women of Islam regardless.

But what i actually meant was: It is better for them to cover, but if they don't, then they are still the women of Islam regardless.

Sorry for the inconvenice. I hope everyone realized I made a mistake.

 

Thanks for your enlightened insight. It seems that some of the people on this board are so hopeless and desperate that the only way they can find to insult Islam is by saying Islam is violence or by inventing lies and making up quotes in Islamic holy books. There excuse is because a few of Muslims killed their fellow westerners.

Anyone who says that Islam is to blame for the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan and fierce anti-Western opposition is a fool. The West invaded their countries, they are fighting back, that's their right. It's their country, they have every right to fight for freedom. The situation will spread and more countries will be under attack, and then will you blame them for resisting. Resisting occupation is a basic human extinct.

How can you blame it on the 1.7 billion others who are just sitting in their homes in shock at what is happening? I will tell you what it is. These people want to kill and murder Muslim people, they find enjoyment in the pain of others. These people are pure evil. They want others to hate us. They want to make life difficult for us because we are a different skin color, because we believe in One God, and also because they are jealous of what we have.

I would like more people in this forum to argue with Islam on an intellectual platform rather than a hate-mongering kill, behead, nuke them all because they have different attitude toward life. It's not a debate if you say Muslims should die and death to Islam and such things. Also they have a habit of lying when trying to present a point. I will give a few examples:

 

YOU SEEM TO HAVE A CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER

 

lol.

 

Yes, DiamondHearts, muslims are fighting back against what they feel is an unfair occupation in Iraq. But, I think this catastrophic mistake on our part obscures the growing feeling in the world that Islam and western society are incompatable.

 

I agree with you DiamondHearts. I admire your dedication to your religion and to get your point across. I myself find nothing wrong with Islam. Just as christians are persecuted for the things a few other christians (or govt ran by supposed christians) does, Islam experiences the same. I consider Islam a brother religion and there are lots of disbelievers out there that try to seperate us from God. A lot of people have hate. The disbelievers, for one, use it to smite believers. And religious people use it to smite disbelievers. It's just another output for their hate.

 

Well, this u've seen is hezbollah's masses of the shiite sect in lebanon, and since i'm a pro hezbollah, i'm intitled to reply....

When we say "Death to America" it meens the american government not the people, Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah (hezbollah's leader) has pointed this numerous times, not to mention he was amongst the first to condemn the 9/11 attacks, and he did condemn the targetting of western civilians in Iraq, and he has met several american officials who don't agree with the governments' policies some of whom were congressmen.

It is the same when we say "Death to Israel", we don't mean the Jews, some prominent Jewish figures and Rabbis (Natouri Karta) were visiting him a year ago...

You can feel very safe for no one means you harm amongst these masses, provided you don't come with a tank or F22 to demolish their houses and kill their children in the name of Bush's "Democracy" and Sharon's "Right of Self-Defence".

Do u mean Mohammed who started the thread or the Prophet, it seems the second... but nevermind, nobody expects you to buy what we sell, but don't come with a ("peaceful" ARMY) telling us what we should buy too