Well, I'm waiting for the investigation to see the details. I'm not convicting him yet, but if in fact he did so the law is probably pretty clear about what should happen. I dunno for real. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in that what he did he thought he did for the benefit of our security. I don't know what the laws say, but that's what should happen. *shrug* As far as my own opinion is concerned about what should happen... I havent' thought about it in depth yet. I'll think about it some.
WHAT? Uh, the same reason why retaillers can no longer have two-way mirrors in dressing rooms to catch shop-lifters. Sure, we may not be doing anything wrong, but there's still private shit that should be LEFT PRIVATE! I don't want the government hearing my phone calls, watching me have sex, or heck, even walking the dog. So hey, what's your address? I'm gonna bring some special equipment I own to spy on you. I wanna watch you take a dump on the toilet, have sex with the wife, hear your calls on the phone when you do your taxes, I wanna find out what you're getting your grandchildren for Christmas or whatever private stuff that's meant to be private, that you have no problem with others seeing you do since you're not doing anything criminal, even though you're being treated and spied on as if you were one. - N
I can't believe you didn't know about this. The Patriot Act was passed in 2001. Yes, people were outraged when it was passed, because it gave the government such leverages on violating the Bill of Rights. What is your point? I'm surprised that someone like you who seems to care so much about your own civil liberties didn't feel compelled enough to see the laws being passed by the very government violating your said civil liberties. This is the kind of person that gets manipulated by media propaganda.
"My guess is it was leaked just prior to the elections last year and someone at the New York Times wanted bush in office. Why do you think they printed it now? " I've noticed a lot of bush bashing by the press of late. At least, compared to earlier times in his run. All this shit must be coming out now for a reason-- maybe his handlers are no longer pleased with him? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I agree there should be SOME kinda surveillence, which there ALREADY is. I think how we are.. err, WERE, was just fine. You know, like if you're suspicious, then get a court order and have a judge grant a warrant, rather than being able to do whatever you want to whomever you choose all because you have the power to. - N
anytimefool, this has nothing to do with the patriot act (which the senate failed to renew yesterday, by the way, thank satan). This is above and beyond what even the law under the patriot act allows. President bush signed an illegal secret order on at least 30 different occasions (as it is now revealed, this morning, by him) to illegally spy (monitor phone calls and e-mails) on americans without a warrant from a judge, court or any other legal body or oversight committee. This is illegal. ILLEGAL. Do I need to spell it out for you? Under the patriot act and the constitution of the united states of america, this is ILLEGAL. Fool, knowing and suspecting are two different things. Don't act like you know a damned thing when obviously you don't. This story wasn't out there until yesterday.
Yeah, kinda like when you see a CHP officer on the highway driving behind you and you all of a sudden get all paranoid even though you're driving just fine. People move into another lane to get away from them, heh. Sure, you have nothing to worry about, but that feeling of always being watched, you have to always to question yourself more than once with whatever you do, even when you already know what you're doing is perfectly normal. There's no reason for all of this. And yep, so much for being innocent until proven guilty. When everyone expects the other to not be trusted as if they're bad, you're now living in a hell. So much for freedom. Feels like McCarthyism all over. Gotta watch out for all them Communists! - N
Firstly, all governments spy on their citizens--always have, always will (Sorry about the cynicism Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ) Secondly, if Bush's handlers were really pissed off with him, they'd just let some guy past their guard for a moment who's even more pissed off than they are (there are plenty of them out there) and let him or her knock off Bush.
The problem with doing it like that is that there are then many, many people with access to those warrants, etc. And if a newspaper reporter finds out, he puts it in the paper, then all that surveillance work is shot to hell. THAT is why it's "secret" ....because our news media can't keep it's mouth shut even in cases of dire national emergency or threat! ...since they're all assholes!!! Baron Max
It's amazing to me the number of people who think that they're actually important enough for ANYONE to give one single shit what they're doing or who the fuck they're talking to on the phone! If ya' ain't doin' anything wrong, what do you have to worry about? And if you ARE doin' something wrong, then don't ya' think the rest of us would like you to be caught by the cops?? Baron Max
Care to give an example? I've never heard of an operation being outed before it happened. Whenever I've heard a place just got raided, it's been after the fact by the news media. However, I HAVE seen and heard this happen in regards to the Iraqi War. The amount of news coverage is ridiculous. Some of the things I've heard the White House released or covered by a journalist travelling with a caravan has made me shout at the TV. WHAT ARE YOU IDIOTS DOING SAYING ALL THIS.. letting the enemy knowing what we're doing. Even worse when the White House does it though as if they're using it as bait or something. - N
According to the NBC news tonight, it seems that the leaders of congress knew all about this some years ago! ...and didn't make a big deal out of it. But now that it's come to light, it's gonna' be just like their vote to go to war with Iraq .....they'll say that they were coerced or threatened or weren't given enough good intelligence!! ....LOL!! Baron Max
NBC News? You're kidding right? They are the most conservative, neo-con spin machine of the three major networks. Of all the "news" channels, they are only behind the fox "news" network in terms of sheer right-wing propaganda. ABC is in the middle, I would say, and CBS is the only one trying to be fair and honest.
Well, Cotton, I don't know why ye're pickin' on NBC ....if you want to see that members of congress did, in fact, know about all this, then check on your own sources soon and you'll see for yourself from the sourcs that you trust. Check it out ...I don't think NBC would say such a thing if they didn't know it to be "pretty damned true", do you? Baron Max
Uh, well, considering the government DOES do so, and listens to all phone calls with Eschelon, every citizen of the United States IS important enough for them to give one single shit about, otherwise they wouldn't be fearing us and spying on everyone. Hi, Baron, again, please gimme your address. I wanna listen to your phone calls freely, I want to watch you take a shower, a shit on the toilet, fondle the ol' wife, sit down and read bedtime stories to your grandchildren, hear you make important business phone calls, I wanna know what medications you take, and anything else that while it may not be important, it sure as hell is private. You ARE already guilty, otherwise I wouldn't bother spying on you in the first place. They fear the power that the people and democracy has. They want absolute power and they're doing just that because there's nobody around to question them because most people are fools like yourself that kiss your leader's ass even when they do things wrong. Our leaders would NEVER be corrupt or do bad things, despite it happening in the past. Keep telling yourself these days are different and nothing bad will ever be done. Keep telling yourself that everyone learns from the past and from their mistakes and that history never repeats itself. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! - N
Unfortunately the issuing of an executive order in a declared emergency can suspend the Constitution.
Wow, Neildo, ye're really paranoid, aren't you? ...LOL!! But then, perhaps you have a good reason, huh? Like do you sell drugs? ...do a lot of drugs? ...into terrorist and/or treasonous activities? Hmmm? Baron Max
I really don't care if they knew about it or not. They did not break the law. They did not do the crime. Let's say they did know about it though. Could be possible. If so, I'm pissed at them too. In fact, though my views tend to be liberal, I don't like many of our lying, cheating, corrupt, power-hungry politicians, republican or democrat. I've said that on more than one occasion. Does'nt matter, anyway, if the news outlets sit on the story for over a year. You can see their motives. Media not doing their jobs in an honest way is just as dangerous as a politician run amok. What makes you think I am "pickin'" on NBC? I am stating my opinion and letting others know that what they see on NBC and Fox News may be different than what they see on ABC, CBS or CNN. Not "pickin,'" stating an opinion.
I like how you lump pot-smokers and terrorists into the same category. I also like the way you assume that everything illegal is immoral, and that privacy is worthless. Seeing the way you think really helps me understand America's current policies a lot better.
