Do You Believe In Evolution?

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by will_ebert, Jun 23, 2002.

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Who here believes in evolution?

  1. The Universe Was Created By God, No Less Than 10,000 Years Ago

    7 vote(s)
    4.8%
  2. Evolution Is True, But It Was Controlled By God. The Universe Is Billions Of Years Old

    35 vote(s)
    24.0%
  3. There Is No God. Evolution Is True. The Universe Is Billions Of Years Old

    104 vote(s)
    71.2%
  1. kmguru Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,757
    That is very nice. What exactly are the facts? How long ago we became humans with intelligence to use fire and tools to hunt? Were there only one group of monkeys or three? Why there are hundreds of type of butterflies or dogs or fishes or snakes and only a single type of humans?
     
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  3. TheAlphaWolf Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    445
    well, of course I can't possibly list them all. From nested higherarchies to geographical distribution, fossils (includes transitional fossils), homologous structures, analogous structures, and vestigial structures, to the fact natural selection has been observed, and that even SPECIATION (macroevolution... a population of one species turning into another) has been observed.
    I must say I'm not very familiar with human evolution, but I do know some things. the process of getting intelligence to uste fire and tools to hunt happened in gradual steps. There's no single time when hominids started using both tools, tools to hunt, fire, etc. First it started out with simple tools, like using a stone to shatter bone so the bone marrow could be eaten. Then it went to sharpening those stones to make them more efficient, then to using them to kill, then adding a stick to the end (like an ax type of thing), etc. So in short, there's no way to say. Humans aren't the only ones to use tools either. There are ravens, chimps, finches, etc. that also use simple tools.
    well, all hominids (including modern humans) are apes, NOT monkeys, and there have been quite a few lines of hominids (homo erectus, neandarthals, the hobbit, etc). All but one survived, and that's because of various reasons... I think neandarthals were outcompeted by modern humans right?
    first of all, you're totally misrepresenting it. "butterflies" isn't just one group of organism, it's an... order? (domestic) dogs are all the same species, etc. If you want to compare them, you have to say that there are many kinds of butterflies, dogs, fish, snakes, and primates (which includes humans). There are also a couple of species of apes (which also includes humans)
    as for why there is only one species of human... for a lot of reasons. We are relative newcomers to earth, and we breed relatively slowly (compared to butterflies, dogs, fish, and snakes). The faster you reproduce the faster you can usually evolve. The other species of human were also killed off for various reasons... diseases, climate changes like ice ages and supervolcanoes erupting, and even other humans. If you hadn't noticed, humans are very aggressive even within the same species. Other humans were probably killed off by modern humans.
     
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  5. TheAlphaWolf Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    445
    no. can you elaborate? I don't understand...
    just FYI, there are plants that don't reproduce with seeds but with spores, or that reproduce asexually.
    speaking of plants and sexual reproduction, did you know that dandelion flowers are useless? they serve no function. You can't pollinate a dandelion flower because it's infertile. Completely utterly useless.
     
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  7. kmguru Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,757
    So is the intelligent design...here I am being the devil's advocate...the fact that religion evolved and practiced by ~80% of the world's population that tend to believe in intelligent design...can itself be considered as the observational facts.

    The ID people feel that while there is a relation between the primates and humans in DNA, and brain mechanics...the conclusion can not be drawn that one fine morning the primate became a human. People have been searching for that missing link for a long time and there has been no such thing...even between specis. To turn on or off a single gene in a human body takes a lot of knowledge and laboratory equipment. Now changing say 1000 genes so that a female primate will give birth to a human type, without rejecting the fetus, is really out of this world. If that is true, we should find the enzyme that is responsible for such process and use it in transplanting biological organs. And I am sure scientists have artificially inseminated human sperm in primates with no results...unless you consider a whole cross specis are in Timbuktu running their empire....

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    According to latest science, humans have been on the Earth scene for only 100,000 years. That is too small a time for nature to experiment turning on and off the gene sequences and make it compatible with the mother primate to create a viable off spring. Turning a 1000 genes just right in such a small period is not possible. Now if you say we have been here for the last 200 million years and therefore the first 50 million years, nature tinkered with the genes and that we can find the half breeds which lasted 100,000 years each...then I can understand the progression...

    I am trying to give you an alternate scenario between classical Adam and Eve story and the primate giving birth to a human.

    Notice, you could not pin down, exactly what the time frame is for a human to be present on this planet. It is faily established that plant life arrived about 750 million years ago. It takes a long time like a million years or so, for a specis to establish themselves. It takes 60 million years for the dinosaur to become a crocodile...specifically when there is a stress in the environment.

    There has been practically no changes in the human brain in the last 4000 years - so, if we can establish exactly when the primates got their higher functions of the brain and invented fire...that will go a long way in establishing your claim.

    There is no such thing as people invented fire gradually...either you did one day or you did not...it is like saying, she got pregnant gradually over 5 years...

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  8. mountainhare Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,287
    kmguru, you have to be kidding. Is your post a parody, or are you being dead to rights serious?
     
  9. kmguru Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,757
    Just having some fun....

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  10. mountainhare Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,287
    It's scary, because you sound like an ID'ist. They parody themselves.
     
  11. Ezromation Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23
    Can we do the God burying dinosaur bones to test peoples faith bit....... (I kind of like that theory)
     
  12. TheAlphaWolf Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    445
    yeah, don't give them ideas. Then we have to reply to their stupid arguments.
     
  13. valich Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,501
    I'm colorblind to blue so it's difficult to make it out?

    Anyways, I think Einsten, Maxwell Planck, Neils Bohr, Newton, Heisenberg, and Stephen Hawking were more intelligent then humans 4,000 years ago? In any case, we have accumulated a worldwide body of knowledge that is much more superior than anyone had back then. If you can't prove that human intelligence has evolved, you can empirical show that their accumulation of knowledge has, as an indicator of this.
     
  14. kmguru Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,757
    With a question mark, are you asking if they are, or making a statement? No, people are not more intelligent than they were 4000 years ago, otherwise, we would not be believing in fairy tales and that too divided between groups...

    Everything transforms...the universe transformed from pure hydrogen to many elements, stars and planets. Does that mean, they all evolved...if you use that word, then that is fine. But then if you say the aeroplane evolved from motor cycle...some may say yes (because, man evolved from hydrogen...man made motor cycle...then the progression of technology created the aeroplane) or ...some may say...it was the intelligent design...

    Take your pick...I think it is how you define the term under what environment....with what time and space integration.

    If you do not get it...do not worry...it is one of those....a priori...or a posteroi issues...

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  15. valich Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,501
    Do you believe in fairy tales? If so, then of course you are not more intelligent. But the fact is that most of us today don't, because today we are more intelligent.
     
  16. kmguru Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,757
    What planet are you from? Over 90% of people on this planet believe in God and religions that represent God. It has not changed for 4000 years!
     
  17. Gattaca Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    46
    Do you think they really believe in what they think they believe in? Hehe, I doubt it. People just need a pillar of their minds to hold up their daily life. Sometimes, we need that strong satisfaction to believe in something, it fills the human weakness. Simply, when that happens religion and Gods are the nearest straw you can grab, isn't it? God's always with his arms wide open....(crap). Religion is more like culture, or even got involved with art, philosophy, and politics, it exist for a reason, whatever it is, it has something to do with humanity.

    ------------------------Evolution is solid.
     
  18. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,467
    Damn it man, wrong type of evolution. We are talking about multi-generational, pressure driven biological evolution. Raw hydrogen and other, nonliving crap can not reproduce or die and thus they can not evolve.
     
  19. crazeeeeeem Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    174
    :-D
     
  20. valich Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,501
    Certain crystalline structures are "nonliving crap" that self reproduce on their own: sel-replicating structures.
     
  21. valich Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,501
    "Sciforum: the intellectual community" pole resuls:

    5.37%: The Universe Was Created By God, No Less Than 10,000 Years Ago
    24.16%: Evolution Is True, But Controlled By God. Universe Billions years old
    70.47%: There Is No God. Evolution Is True. Universe is Billions Of Years Old
     

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