To start with I can quote Albert Einstein: "“No, this trick won’t work! How on earth are you ever going to explain in terms of chemistry and physics so important a biological phemomenon as first love!”
I am not really an expert on spirituality, but I don't think that it is true to say that spirituality is pure faith. What is pure faith is religion. Spirituality can be understood with logic. It is the 'Christian' and 'Islamic' kind of spirituality which is nothing but blind faith. And through this thread I'm warning against a very common contemporary tendency to have the same kind of blind faith in the scientific practices of today. I'm too familiar with the feeling.
When science starts trying to measure emotion, feelings, it is EXTREMELY dangerous!.....Huwy, you areout of touch mate. you may have missed other deabates here about this i dont know. ....Have you not heeard of the 'hard problem' in science (David Chalmers)? where it is shown how eg., neurpscience may be able to measure te chemcical electrical activity etc, but NOT the actual subjective FEELINGS 'from the inside'......Also did you miss the recent report in the NYTimes where it s shown how brain imaging is NOT really proving 'mental illness' at all?.....Thereby proving what dissenters of this evil scientific scam have been saying for years--ie., especially Thomas Szasz--that mental illness is a myth? You should read his book, The Manufacture of Madness: A Comparative Study of the Inquisition and the Mental Health System. It will leave you in no doubt te evil that's been committed in the name of science Science? what do we mean when we say that tterm? who hasdefined it here yt. Are we aware that there exists a new science moving away from the materialistic understanding of science? The latter claiming we are all biochemical machines which produce consciousness, andthat Nature is made up from blind forces, etc etc. All along that was a nihilistic religion isn't/wasn't it??
Budda1, I am not an expert in spirituality as well, and I really wish I would have taken more religion/spirituality classes back in that day. But I don’t think spirituality can be understood with logic, I equate it with faith. Maybe we are just getting into semantics here. Where is the dividing line between spirituality and religion for you? Saying that the ‘Christian’ and ‘Islamic’ kind of spirituality is nothing but blind faith is somewhat exclusive. There are extremists in every religion and/or belief, but there are also moderates in every group that are willing to open their minds to others beliefs. I advise you to stay away from generalizations. I’m sure you didn’t mean it but it sounds kinda harsh. The “common” scientific practices today are not based upon a blind faith. I may be generalizing here because I am a scientist, but I believe that most scientists understands that they are dealing with theories that may some day be proven false, no matter how much evidence is proven otherwise thus far. We want to figure out what is going on around us so we can either use it to help out other people or make money, that all depends on who you are working for. This is way past my bedtime. Damn you Budda1.
duendy, Ok, first of all we all know that evil has been committed in the name of science. But evil has been committed in the name of almost anything you can think of (even peace). I’m not going to respond further to your comment because it is not that clear to me (I could just be tired because Budda1 is keeping me up late).
you mean as in war for 'peace'? well that is a phony game isn't it? we could see materialistic science as a religion of nihilism. that the rules of its game disclude feeling. put it that way. As the Chhurch dictated to its followers -and poeple forced to follow-what 'spirit' was/is, so likewise materialistic science dictates to its followers -and people forced to follow- what 'matter' is...
We might say that evil things are committed in the name of science, but who usually commits these acts and blames science? Imprecise thinking about something like this can cause big problems. Science created the bomb but politics decided where it was to be exploded. Science created medicine that led to overpopulation, but it was human foolishness that decided to keep having huge families.
That gave me an idea. If evil has been committed in the name of science, spirituality, and almost everything else, then does it not make sense for us (especially the laymen) to be cautious in deaking with human made institutions whether concerning science or spirituality or whatever. And question --- wherever things don't feel right.
Science is a creation of man, It's nothing without the human. it's part of a tool that he has created to understand life and nature. A tool in whose making a lot of man's earlier experiences went in, including the abuse of spirituality by Christianity and other religions. Science is how the modern man percieves nature. Science has a motive --- to manipulate and control natural forces in order to (what is perceived as) benefit the human kind, to achieve material progress of human kind. One drawback of science is that it gives human beings so much power that it becomes dangerous for the human kind itself. Humans will always have both good and evil amongst its folds. My grandmother had once told me, "When science reaches its zenith that will be the end of the human race!" I think there is a lot of truth in it. When we know the deepest physical secrets of nature and can create a man, we also unwittingly create the negative power to destroy him. We can be lucky for a long time, but one day another Hitler will come. And this time he will have technological power that can destroy the world at the push of a button --- if he fails to change the world as he wants.
Science is a most for human beings because the obligation given by God to man is to ask, search and learn; or else why should he be dominated over other creatures and endowed with a superior power of brain and wisdom. A Genuine Religion requires peolpe to inquire and research. In fact, according to religion true believers are those who are knowingly following. Those who follow by closed eyes are mostly a danger to religion. The misunderstanding here is that people think religion means "anti-science". There is a fundamental phrase in religious teaching and that helps me find the correct choice.It says:"Whatever is right by wisdom, is right by religion too and vice versa!" Human being is so incomplete and short of knowledge. A baby is so curious, he searches everywhere and wants to explore everything.He goes close to fire, pool of water, the edge of height..but he will come to understand his innocent errors later on when he grows older; though then again he still needs help to avoid other errors. That's same with us, we are not enough far-sighted or resourced to find the correct way by ourselves. science is a relative object not an absolute and that's why many scientific facts change over time. Which wise person prefers to base all his life on relative source instead of an absolute one? I agree to a certain degree that religion today has turned into such a complicated mechanism that some people are misguided and problems arise, but considering the above fundamental phrase, maybe it will be a better idea to clear our minds from prejudice and look into the original sources of every religion,that's mainly their Holy books, and judge by ourselves after proper contemplation. After all this is something we will deal with forever and, being human, we have the responsibilityand the power of discretion, so why not look for the truth ourselves?
A friend of my who graduated from Dallas Baptist Seminary was convinced that he knew just as much as anyone in a monastery. We decided to have him spend a week in one and if he didnot learn anything sigficant I would pay the round trip ticket. Within three days he called to state I am amazed at the old manuscripts here. He quoted one. :The Sacred Secrets of the Supreme Being are not to be published in any book to be read by a scoffer, a drunk or a Roman Emperor. Look at the many times the Bible mentions Sacred Secrets but goes no further into details. That is the scientific information you are looking for. Its hidden from the masses, and if you look up Sacred Secrets you will find Many passages. Einstein said we only use l5 percent of the mind, Harvard said perhaps 2 percent. I have meditated for 25 years and I tell you that there is an unexplored part of the mind that will open up revealing all IF YOU ARE TRUST WORTHY. My friend from the Baptist persuasion eventually accessed that part of the mind and when he reported this to the church he had been asigned to he was asked to leave and not return. Think also of the Dead Sea Scrolls, original copper writings found by a shepherd in the area the Desciples roamed. Did you see the Christian churches hurrying over to read them. I f this doesn't get your attention as to whats really going on. Meditation, or gently knocking at the back of the mind has ALL the answers you are looking for, but the ego centered-separate mind will give you a battle.
"to look into the original sources of religion"....? YES. Definately, but how many are willing to do so?? Time and again I have tried to encourage oing tis at the religios forum here, but the in-house style seems to be the clinging embrace of LITERALIST understanding of religion. This to me is a comfort zone. It is NOT a scientific way of exploring mythology. Same with science...many seem to speak up for it, yet they never seem to want to explore the history of it. I agree with Buddha1's latest insight------that we should get the clue tat if we are having problems wit religion and science, then itis probably INSTITUTIONS that we need to be wary of...! This means tat when things become a big organization, like religion and science--ie., so we have Church&State and Science&State, tis is where tey turn into fascistic institutons that oppress te individual. wit the church for example it was the prsecutionof non-believers, heretics, etc etc......and wit science it is thepersecution of people who cannot or will not cope with te imposed system, whereby they will be classed 'mentally ill'. When you compare--the latter oppression isefven more insidious, in that it is like a straightjacket that effects all our relations, and how we even feel about ourselves. VERY oppressive, and all guided by, 'science'!
All of that is exactly what I was saying. It is what Buddha1 has been saying. Science can be wonderful, but it is worthless at best and dangerous at worst without humanity, wisdom and clear, responsible guidance.
How is trying to objectively measure emotion (through questionairres, imaging etc) dangerous? "NOT the actual subjective FEELINGS 'from the inside'" What? Your saying scientists are incapable of empathy? You wouldn't even know what empathy is. Don't you tell me mental illness is a myth. You absolute moron. You illustrate your idiocy perfectly. You can't even spell or type properly. Did you even finish high school? I'm doing a double degree at university. What kind of education do you have? You prefer smoking weed? Weed causes mental illness in some cases. I know a guy who developed schitzophrenia as a result. He heard voices that were not there. He tried to kill himself, he had to go to hospital. "Also did you miss the recent report in the NYTimes where it s shown how brain imaging is NOT really proving 'mental illness' at all?" I'm doing 2 subjects at the moment on this. I for one have suffered from serious mental illness. I would not be alive if it weren't for treatment. "and wit science it is thepersecution of people who cannot or will not cope with te imposed system, whereby they will be classed 'mentally ill'." Great theory mate, you may find it hard to believe but that "system" is designed to help people who are suffering. People who want to hurt themselves, or others, they try to help those thoughts and feelings. Is that wrong? How does science OPPRESS the individual? Mental illness is a DEFENCE in court! Used by rapists and molesters and murderers! Is it wrong to lock up rapists and murderers? You cannot cope, intellectually. Thats your problem. How is it, that its perfectly acceptable to accept thousands of physical illnesses, many different cancers, diabetes, heart disease, kidney and liver failure, lung diseases, etc etc etc. But you can't conceive that something could go wrong with the most important organ of all, the brain? What, like its immune from all the problems the other organs have? Justify your statements, and don't refer to any crackpots. CAN ANYONE give an example of "science gone wrong" or "immoral science" or "science oppressing people"?? I'm going to finish my assignment now. Thankyou. You've inspired me to finish my lab report.
Einstein never said this, neither did Harvard. Please do a little research on the subject. It is NOT TURE that we only use 10% (or 2 or 15, or whatever false small number you may have heard) of the brain. It is something that was misunderstood, and repeated incorrectly for years. What WAS said was that we only use eleven percent of our brain AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT. Meaning... We use all of it, but not all at the same time. And Einstein didn't EVEN SAY IT. He was a theoretical physicist, not a doctor. How the hell could he possibly know? Did he have CAT and PET scan machines in his lab? No one even claims Einstein said it, you probably confused that with someone saying something like, "Even Einstein only used ten percent of his brain." Modern CAT and PET scans show that even that estimate that was made isn't entirely accurate. We seem to use pretty much all of our brain, AND how much we are using at any given time is entirely dependent upon what specifically you are doing. In short, this is NOT TRUE, please stop spreading lies and misconceptions. About your friend in the monastery, if it is a true story, he knows how gullible you are and is pulling your leg.
thats such a bullshit myth that 10% myth. its an old wifes tale. and we do use all of our brain ALL at the same time, just some areas are more active than others. How do I Know? Cause I do EEGs at uni, i've stuck electrodes to my own head, and seen the alpha + beta waves coming out of it. Just last week we stuck electrodes on another guys head, he got cool alpha waves. CAT and PET scans, and more recently fMRI (the best scans atm) are measureable science. haha wait till duendy starts thinking we are shocking people. THEY ARE ELECTRODES FOR MEASURING! NOT FOR SHOCKING!! what a moron. If he doesn't want "the white man's" help when he or his family is suffering from some medical condition or illness, thats his problem. In some parts of africa, it is commonly believed that the only way to "cure" HIV/AIDS is to have sex with a virgin. I shit you not. I gotta finish my uni work. I want to finish my studies and go and help people. You think mental illness is a myth? try telling that to the kid with epilepsy when he's having a fit on the ground.
science is in a way worshipped i agree with buddha, it is like a new age cult where people believe things that arent infact true, evidence is not real in certain ways, science is all based on theorys of the human mind and senses, scientists believe they have evidence of things they cant possibly explain ie the creation of the universe.
The big bang theory is called just that, a theory. can you give any relevant examples? CAN ANYONE give an example of "science gone wrong" or "immoral science" or "science oppressing people"?? Evidence is NOT based on "theorys of the human mind and senses", thats rubbish. Science is only based on what can be accurately MEASURED. I hate to break it to you, but you obviously believe in the force of "Chi". What evidence is there for the existence of Chi? Yet you are skeptical of science? Which "facts" are you skeptical of? You are all just talking about your feelings of being oppressed, or your opinion of people "following". Yeah ok I do worship science, including medical science. You know why? Cause otherwise I would be dead, and morons like you would be able to spout your shit wherever you go. I also wouldnt have a little brother. I mean if one of your children got really sick, and was going to die, or your parents had a heart attack. Who would you call? The ambulance. Where would you go? To the hospital. Would you say thankyou to all the people that saved your loved ones? You know why I worship medical science? Cause it saves lives. You can stick your "magic weed" and your chinese medicine and chi life force psuedoscience and homeopathy and accupuncture and religion in the trash. Cause the best it can do is relax people (and have the placebo affect), and people are starting to realise its bullshit.
evidence of science gone wrong, SHIT MAN i could make a blooper show about this, with a bonus DVD with longer fotage than lord of the rings trillogy, are you serious bro? what do you call the earth bieng flat, and the earth bieng centerpoint of the universe? is that enough or do you want me to eleborate a bit more?/ maybe get some links for you to read up on about how science was wrong about many things? and evidence of qi or prana? energy ok how about you look up orgone energy that was discovered by freuds apprentis, he made an orgone generator and tested it with results on plants growing 3-4 times faster and healthyer, oh and thats just western science there, eastern theorys are way ahead with Qi/prana how about you bring your Qi-less ass to a Qi gong place of training and try it yourself, mr bitter pants.
I have a better idea: always believe what religion says! Or better yet: always believe what mr. Buddha says! Science is based on facts Religion is based on superstition
