Abortion

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by charles cure, Sep 20, 2005.

  1. Darwin_76 Registered Member

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    Since you enjoy statistics... look up the statistics of how many children are in orphanages and in foster care in the United States. Then look up the adoption rates for children of color. Can you still tell me that giving the child up for adoption is a good and conscious choice. I think you make an excellent point when you say that it is the parent's dysfunctional behavior that causes the children to have problems... which is my point exactly. These children are not going to be model citizens when they grow up. Instead they are going to be wards of the state... and will become a problem for society as a whole.
    Let’s try to make analogies that make sense ok? Ending a pregnancy in the early stage of the first trimester is much different than killing a conscientious human being. I am not at all stating that everyone in the hood is bad... I am just saying that it is not an environment that is conducive to raising children responsibly. Isn't that what we should be considering here rather than living in a fairy tale that these children are going to grow up and find the cure for cancer? Let's get real.
     
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  3. okinrus Registered Senior Member

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    Black children have to wait in foster homes about two and half times longer than white children on average.

    For me, adoption for purely economic reasons wouldn't be a good choice(unless if the child would truly starve).

    It's unlikely the problems these children might impose warents death. The only case where it's remotely acceptable is if these children were all to become murders. They aren't.
     
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  5. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    Can you provide a source for this information please.
     
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  7. okinrus Registered Senior Member

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  8. Darwin_76 Registered Member

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    For anyone that is completely against abortion I urge you to go and volunteer at an inner-city Emergency room for a week. Most of the inner-city ER's welcome volunteer staff with open arms... so it should be relatively easy to find one that is willing to take you on. In just one week of seeing the patients and their children that enter that ER will change your mind about abortion. Let's face it... there are so many children out there being raised by drug addicts, alcaholics, prostitutes, with the majority collecting some sort of welfare or government assistance. It is extremely sad to see the conditions as well as the parental guidance these children are being raised in. If abortion were outlawed... think about how much that would increase these instances.

    If volunteering at an Emergency Room doesn't sway you... then I would suggest spending some time in a local orphanage. Talk to some of the older teen children there that have been in foster care. Let them tell you about the physical, psychological, and sexual abuse they have experienced from their own parents as well as in foster care. Then you tell me that you still think abortion needs to be abolished. If you think that damning these children to a life-long dose of misery is more just than a 20 second proceedure during the first trimester of pregnacy... IMO you have a serious problem. Sure there are some happy stories of parents getting a baby from adoption, and I am sure there are some great foster stories that compare to different strokes... but if you look at the most probable outcome for these children you will see that the bad outweighs the good.
     
  9. okinrus Registered Senior Member

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    I'd have to have need some medical knowledge, right?

    First of all, in the ER you see people's worst sides. Second, abuse, too, can be be a learning experience. Let's face it, these children own their lives. It's theirs to choose how to handle the abuse--to become drug addicts or to see their parents faults and turn away from it. But by your line of reasoning, taking the point to its conclusion, when their lives should end is when they most comprehend and understand the abuse. A two-year-old cannot understand the abuse he or she experiences, nor can a four year old, really. And for themselves, knowing and comprehending the abuse, they might, by your reasoning, kill themselves. But they don't. (Or at least most of them don't) And thus either they don't want to, or they believe to do such morally wrong. In any case, it's their choice--not the parent's.

    Well, it's possible without abortion the instances will increase. But more likely, society will form better methods to raising children. I can't really think of better place for my tax dollars to be spent.
     
  10. stretched a junkie's broken promise Valued Senior Member

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    Quote w:
    "Some just want a good orgasm after Sunday lunch."

    * What in gods name is wrong with that?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Oh yeah, she can come too! Almost forgot.
     
  11. water the sea Registered Senior Member

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    Whatever. As long as you are not the one to have the abortion, if it comes to pregnancy.
     
  12. i gotta say, for a while posting on this thread was exciting and useful. i think ive gotten to the point where i just think its a stalemate between two different points of view and its not really encouraging any more intelligent debate on the subject. i feel like im repeating myself over and over again when i post replies to something that someone else is just saying over and over again.
     
  13. Tavas Registered Senior Member

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    tired? you should now start a new thread on gun control. Another hot limbo topic.
     
  14. stretched a junkie's broken promise Valued Senior Member

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    Water. I know it. You know it. Bush knows it. The Romans knew it. Bonobos know it. Priests know it. Everyone’s knows it. Sex is not only about conception and pregnancy. If one does … by the infinitesimal, marginal and very very tiny small amount of chance, falls pregnant when all due precaution has been taken, then what is so bad about having a child? Choices = Consequences. Why to the woman is abortion the only alternative? You keep saying it’s the partner’s pressure that results in abortion. But the primary choice is always going to live with the mother to be. There is no escaping this fact. If this whole issue becomes an obsession, then simple abstinence is the only alternative. You sound like you abhor sexual pleasure. A lot of us have dodgy childhood experiences that slant the naturalness of sex, but how long must one remain a victim?
     
  15. water the sea Registered Senior Member

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    If you can't afford a child, then it is bad to fall pregnant.


    If she can't afford a child, but wants romance with a man, then she better be ready to have an abortion.


    I'm not saying that.


    Really? And if the man decides not to? Then she is left alone with a child.
    Such is the risk of entering a romantic relationship with a man.


    I don't.


    Albeit it may seem so, the above consideration has nothing to do with my view of sex.

    You tell me how "natural" it is to live in constant fear of pregnancy and desertion. But we have the right to make choices, right? And the man has the right to leave a woman pregnant, he has the right to change his mind.
     
  16. stretched a junkie's broken promise Valued Senior Member

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    Quote w:
    "And the man has the right to leave a woman pregnant, he has the right to change his mind."

    * Because I did not live up to my ex-wife`s expectations, she divorced me and took custody of our child. She deprived me of living close to my kid. Such is the risk of entering a romantic relationship with a woman.
     
  17. water the sea Registered Senior Member

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    Do you see now where it leads to if people are entitled not to care about one another?


    (I PM'd you, did you notice?)
     
  18. All.For.One 1 Corinthians 11:1..are you in Registered Senior Member

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    Did you know that the fetus is alive from the age of 1 week?Anytime before that I think is fine for abortion.
     
  19. stretched a junkie's broken promise Valued Senior Member

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    Reading mail now water.
     
  20. stretched a junkie's broken promise Valued Senior Member

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    Mail in PM for you water.
    Allcare.
     
  21. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: The sperm and egg are alive before they meet. They don't just come alive at week 1. The conceptus is not a fetus at week 1. The conceptus is an embryo through week 12 and a fetus from week 13 until birth. There are 40 lunar weeks (10 months) in a normal pregnancy. Using the male dominated calendar of 38 weeks (9 months) renders timing inaccurately. The conceptus is a parasite living on the host mother. Being a parasite, it will drain from the mother her normal nutrution and vitamins such as calcium, thyroid hormone, iron, among others. After birth, the parasite will drain from the mother all of her finances for the next 18 or so years. The parasite is a foreign body in the mother host. It is the host's perogative to keep and nurture said parasite or to remove it. Her uterus is hers, not the state's, not the federal government's, it's hers. What she does with her uterus is her business.
     
  22. alteredperception I know not what I do Registered Senior Member

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    It should be legal for a mother to let her baby die. No one should be forced by law to provide for another human being. Some families will provide for their children, while others will not provide for them. It is not the governments job to force us to provide for others. If someone cannot sustain themselves independently, no one should be forced to assist them. Therefore whether your child is 1 year old or 8 years old you can choose to stop helping it.

    It's not killing! Look at it as simply not helping.
     
  23. Roman Banned Banned

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    11,560
    I agree, but I think we should be allowed to abort only up to kindergarten.
     

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