Challenge from the Learner

Well it says in scripture that 'The Father' always existed, and that His Son 'His Word' Yeshua The Anointed is the beginning of creation. I've noted that 'God stretches the Universe' in my post on page 4, thus the understanding of a dimension, or realm we know nothing about, other then what's explained about it in the Word it is impossible to figure out with are little pea brains, unless its available for research, which it is not. As for people refuting my points on page 4 of this thread. I don’t even think anyone even actually read it, and I haven’t noticed anything in here to show that they have. The only ones I think I remember is people saying they wont read it because all my references to God and scripture make it invalid for them. As for (Q) the con to my last post saying. "some made valid arguments" for the other (Q) is responsible for most of them. As for paragraphs, who cares, most books are in the same format. Get use to it. If you want word art go make some fonts.

 

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M*W: How creepy would that be, to have "an incredibly intelligent designer" out there controlling every aspect of our human lives! You fail to make your point.
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M*W: Christianity is not superior however you may look at it. It's invention is suspect, it's duration is bloody, and its promise for the future is lacking in validity. Forget your belief that you will see heaven when you die, if all you're looking for is a "personal relationship," Christianity is your worst nightmare. You worship and adore it, and all it does for you is give you empty promises of a mythological dying demigod savior. You people have got to be the dumbest lot in the world.
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M*W: Those "4 different accounts" you refer to were propaganda and nothing more. Paul influenced the gospel writers long after he wrote the NT by the insistence of his Roman compatriots. The Bible is not an historically accurate document, Jesus was no savior, and Paul was one of the greatest liars whom ever lived. This is the crap you believe in. Why on earth would anyone on this forum NOT insult you?
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M*W: Since you purport to have extensive documentation of Jesus, please cite references to:

1) documents from the Sanhedrin of the time in the D.D.S.
2) official Roman documents.
3) testimonies from Israel's enemies testifying of Yeshua
4) gnostic documents that testify of Yeshua
5) documents of just regular people and their testimonies, and
6) your archeological proof.

These data will be be discerned without bias by the religious scholars on this forum.
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M*W: Older books are fine as references, but unfortunately more extensive research has been done since the older books were published. Modern biblical scholars and archeologists confirm that there was no exodus out of Egypt led by someone whose name happened to be Moses. No artifacts have been found in those digs to confirm it. Regardless of what Jayleew seems to believe, no gold Egyptian chariot wheels have been found covered with coral in the Red Sea. In fact, the Red Sea was not even in the original exodus myth, it was the Sea of Reeds, and it was an allegorical sea noted for it's life-giving properties. Even the name "Moses" means "taken from the water." As you recall, Moses' mother made a basket of reeds and put him in it, and he was withdrawn from the water and became royalty. All allegory, nothing more.
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M*W: There are more ancient reports from Sumeria that mention a global flood, but Noah's "flood" was not the original. The Bible is nothing more than copies of copies of copies of more ancient myths. Even Native Americans have their own flood myth. Without these flood myths, how could the ancients explain how the Earth got populated? All life arose out of the water. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Bible doesn't contain tons of accuracy.
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M*W: Monotheism stems from sun worship by the ancients. Life arose out of water but was nurtured by the sun. Ancient humans believed the sun to be god; hence, monotheism evolved from that. Abraham, himself, (if he existed) was a polytheist. Moses (if he existed) worshipped the sun Aten-Ra. The Jews ended up worshipping the monotheist god YHWH, the god Moses saw on the Mount -- the god Moses' created. Even the Ten Commandments were earlier than Moses. They came out of the Code of Hammarabi. There is nothing new under the sun. If you study religion closely, you will see that every story, every myth will lead you back to the most basic form of worship -- the zodiac. There are no gods but the ones we create.
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M*W: Don't bother wasting everyone's time trying to prove that "Christianity excels all faiths." You just won't be able to make your point on this forum.

 

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Jeff. I didn't read the full post because it became quite clear after the first few paragraphs that your argument was basically that the universe is so complex and precise that there MUST be an intelligent creator. I would say that is a decent point as I have often thought that myself... everyday in fact. But again the science there explains this doesn't prove that it is driven by God.

The Bible quotes which you litter your posts with are evidence of nothing, so why use these quotes when you are actually trying to prove something? It remains a simple fact, that wether there be a 'God' or not, these bible quotes are in no way representative of 'God'. They merely represent the God of which that specific religion created. In other words humans created the God talked about in the Bible.

This particular quote from the post you are eager to promote had me laughing:

Unlike any other planets in the universe? Think that one over, please.

Life on Earth is a fluke. If Mars was a bit bigger, it could also probably have sustained life. Not to mention the possabilities of life on Titan under different circumstances and the possability of life on Europa. Doesn't appear that life is as special as you think, seeing as you ignorantly assume Earth is so unique out of the whole universe. Seems a bit silly considering we only know of a couple hundred planets due to the limits of our technology.

I guess I want to know why people like you are always keen to use science if you can somehow skew it to fit your stubbornly held beliefs, but ignore it when it contradicts what is said in the bible.

 

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Hey, you wanted it, so you better read it. I'm just glad I did not have to type all of it.
And "the Code of Hammarabi" http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/biblical-archaeology.htm

-Islam http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/archives/islam1.htm , http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/archives/islam2.htm
-Evidence from the ancient world http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/archives/maier3.htm .
http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/library/dss/dss.htm
-Jesus http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/JewishJesus/ ,
http://www.mtio.com/articles/aissar28.htm , http://leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/rediscover2.html , http://leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/rediscover1.html , http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/archives/maier4.htm ,

-Fulfilled http://www.newlifecogop.com/jesusprophecies.htm
http://biblia.com/jesusbible/prophecies.htm ,
-The Jury http://www.mtio.com/articles/bissar1.htm
-Old Books http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/biblical-archaeology.htm

 

Jeff,

Just to remind you this is how I responded to your post on page 4 of this thread..


This is what you said....

And here is how I responded....

Of course you never responded to this, so yeah you stand refuted on proving Intelligent design. So now that I've spelled it out painfully and specifically will I be getting an answer or more of the same drivel you've posted before?

 

Well I just did up above this page. I probably did not respond then because I was disgusted by your quote, and your hate for my Savior 'The Word Manifest as flesh'. Second of all, all of that stuff on page 4 is like 8 pages of information, unlike you I don’t have time to sit on the computer all day, I got a job, and a new house to fix up, also I read a lot for my own personal benefit, to seek God, and the learn other stuff. In other words it takes a lot of time to research all that information, and tons of typing. It took me an hour just to find all those links up above, and I'm not even sure if they have all the information on them I want.

 

Well, Medicine Woman its sad to see one as lost as you are. Your seem empty, and dead. You think your good at convincing people that their is no God? Well. when I was like you, I was much better at it. You can hide, run, and deny all you like, but the truth will catch up with you. I just hope you find it before you can no longer benefit by it.

 

Did you intend the above quote for me or someone else?

 

Please offer us some proof that there is a god. Again and again you have yet to offer any proof that hasn't been thoughly refuted.

 

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M*W: I am neither sad nor lost, empty nor dead. I did not invent the idea that there is no god. There just never was a god. I'm not hiding, running nor denying the truth. There is no god. I have nothing to fear.

 

Except your ignorance.

 

Ignorance of what?

 

and how do you think, people became atheist, we all get indoctrinated with the god crap from birth, and after all our research(years, not mere hours) we've done, we saw the lies, irrationality of god and a religion, hence this is why all your arguements have been refuted. you can not come up with a rational arguement for god, and most certainly you cant for a religion.

 

Well it says in scripture that 'The Father' always existed, and that His Son 'His Word' Yeshua The Anointed is the beginning of creation.

Exactly, tired arguments thoroughly refuted. You're wasting your time.

 

The Earths orbit is circular? Really? Is the Earth flat too? No one had a laugh at this moronic statement? Does Jeeezus operate a magical 'season' machine? Hahahahahaha......

 

The most amusing thing to see is when random (nameless) people pompously spout crap and then laugh not knowing they're the joke...

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[Big grin]
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Another amusing thing to see is old geezers projecting the implications of their thougts unto others statements when the thoughts and statements are absolutely unrelated.

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Seasons have little to do with the circularity of Earth's orbit.

 

and then another person(marcac) does the same.

 

I'm curious. To what archaeological "proof" to you refer?

I should expect so. People have a need for water and thus settle in river valleys, lakesides, seashores and other low-lying areas that irrigate well. These areas are always prone to flooding, a catastrophe that, even in modernity, we are very ill-equipped to deal with. It seems reasonable that our myths, legends and stories would include this theme across the globe. It would be more significant if the theme were uncommon.

I fail to see how this demonstrates the truth of the bible. It only serves to date the individual myths within it. If a biblical myth mentions chariots, for example, we know that the event must have been written after the 17th dynasty, since chariots did not exist prior.

But since you are comparing biblical stories to those of the rest of the world in the Near East, many, many of the biblical tales are directly adapted from stories that originated in the cultures you mentioned above among others. The Noachian flood myth is a near line-for-line copy in some cases with the older Gilgamesh epic of a more ancient Sumeria.

It seems more likely that rather than actually having access to actual "archaeological proofs," you have access to rhetoric that claims to know of archaeological evidence.

 

JeffTheLearner
Don't search further any more.
-If God would not exist we will know who we are, but we don't know anything at all. He exists more than anyone could ever think about. By the way human could not find evidence about existence of God, because he is billions of years more advanced than we are.