Challenge from the Learner

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by JeffTheLearner, Aug 21, 2005.

  1. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    Well, I generally try and avoid writing in such fashion whereby people could even consider mistaking me for a religious person. Indeed I consider it as an insult.. Do I come across as being that uneducated? (or from an English perspective: that old?)

    I do realise that some issues would have come to light with my usage of statements such as: "atheists and their life", but I found it imperative to the point and purpose of my post to Jeff. He is, from the looks of it, deeply religious - and yet he seemingly does not even know what is written in the book that he would consider god written/inspired. Instead of relying on that god written book, Jeff turns to false science in attempt to somehow justify his position. Personally I would have thought the word of god, the book of god would have been enough - after all, it has supposedly come from god - why this need to fuck up science and pretend it's an argument? Has Jeff learnt the hard way that the bible is useful for nothing? Especially when the bible gives him the only answer he'll ever need, (the one I quoted). We are atheists because god wants us to be - so sayeth his god. End of debate.. The guy might aswell go back to bonking 8 year old choir boys and arguing with other 'sects' of christianity over the finer details of god's book that nobody can understand.

    While it might sound rude of me; christians are fucking idiots. That's all there is to it.

    PM me anytime. I rarely notice that someone has, but otherwise it's cool.

    A drag? Woody was a drag, Jenyar, The Visitor, Yorda.. they are/were 'a drag'.
     
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  3. Lawdog Digging up old bones Registered Senior Member

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    Cmon now...dont be like that. You all know that the God does not design atheists for destruction and Hellfire. There are plenty of other things God said which say otherwise. People should not engage in private interpretation of scripture when it comes to such important things. It is true that atheists/unbelieving rejecters of Christ will burn, cut off from the blood of Christ, falling into utter darkness there for endless ages to be tormented by the Devil and his Apostate angels. But God did not mean that for anyone, but he allows them to choose to reject Him if they want.

    Certain atheists are hardened and blinded by God, true as it says, and this is a punishment, especially if they at one time believed and then betraying TRUTH disbelieved. They are not beyond all hope however, for there is always Mary the Mother of God who they can ask for help. There are also other humans that can employ intercessory prayer.
     
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  5. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

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    Pray for me Lawdog, Pray that I one day see the light and avoid burning in eternal damnation.

    At least that way you won't be opening your mouth and subjecting people to your downright stupidity.
     
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  7. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    It is true that atheists/unbelieving rejecters of Christ will burn, cut off from the blood of Christ, falling into utter darkness there for endless ages to be tormented by the Devil and his Apostate angels.

    That sounds much more attractive than spending an eternity with Christians.

    They are not beyond all hope however, for there is always Mary the Mother of God who they can ask for help

    Mary, Mother of God, please see that lawdog spends just a little time in reality, please?

    Thanks. Toodles.
     
  8. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    Now now Lawdog, don't start pointing fingers in the wrong place. Atheists were not the ones to say they had blinded the minds of unbelievers. You are being highly dishonest to even try and point the finger towards me.

    I'm sorry Lawdog, but regardless to your personal opinion, god clearly states otherwise in 2 Corinthians. I notice you didn't in any way manage to debate against the quote I used other than to claim god as someone who contradicts himself with: "There are plenty of other things God said which say otherwise."

    So which is it Lawdog? Do we now ignore what god has said in 2 Corinthians because you say so? Because you state it's contradictory to something else he said somewhere else in the bible?

    Again it comes across as simple dishonesty. You haven't in any way managed to debunk or debate the quote that was used. All you have managed is to somehow poke your finger at me as if it were I that wrote the bible.

    If you have something worthwhile, and more importantly - honest to say then please go ahead. Do not be shy on my account.

    Well, I would argue that your 'sect' and the other 30,000 christian sects do not have exclusive rights to understanding a sentence. If they do, then it goes even further to corroborating my point.

    It is not a case of engaging in private interpretation but for reading the text as it has been written. You seemingly assume god is such a retard that he has dictated a simple sentence that nobody has the ability to decipher. It isn't morse code, it isn't an Ottendorf cipher. It is a simple string of text that once translated can be understood by everyone - regardless to religious belief.

    Of course if that is the very best counter argument you can manage, I shall just use the very same whenever you or anyone pastes a biblical quote. In essence it renders anything you say as worthless.

    2 Corinthians clearly shows otherwise. Your god states that the mind of an unbeliever has been blinded. We have no choice in the matter whatsoever. I notice you cannot argue against this. Shame really.
     
  9. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    The one the reality supports.
     
  10. Horseman42 Registered Senior Member

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    It certainly does mean something to us. In fact if you look back I answered you point for point why your veiwpoint on intelligent design is flawed.

    Atheist do not believe in nothing they just do not believe in gods or a god.

    Not too sure what you are trying to say here. I often find that atheists are more open minded than theists. In fact if I wasn't open minded I would still be a Christain.

    And assuming a more designed, more advanced being solves the problem of the design we see in nature is even more illogical and irrational than that of evolution. It doesn't answer how this being came about without being designed itself. This has nothing to do with pride and everything to do with logical, and being rational.

    This is truth according to you, to us it's just a logical fallacy. Well I guess I see you around then. It's too bad you choose to give up on your argument so soon, you could have learned something here (and perhaps even me too). Again to add to what Raithere was saying if you stick around don't expect an easy ride if you're touting ID theory.
     
  11. c7ityi_ Registered Senior Member

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    snake, i'm sorry i said i was kidding that i was kidding..... and when i talked about shadows ghosts and magnets... i wont do it again, i promise.... at least i'll try... but you know i'm just doing what's in my nature to do, you said that, i couldn't help it but i'll try to become a better person ♥ and i don't expect you to believe me or anything but.... ♥ i'm just a sad person you know so sometimes i say sad things and behave weird
     
  12. qÆ'_Ðœ Registered Member

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    It depends on what you mean by "true"....
     
  13. qÆ'_Ðœ Registered Member

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    Explain if you don't mind

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  14. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    It was a typo in my response to the question. It was intended to read "The one that reality supports". The intended meaning is that I have chosen to align my 'point of view' to the way reality is instead of the way I would like it to be.
     
  15. qÆ'_Ðœ Registered Member

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    But you are talking about reality like the reality you experience the One is, why that, is my question...
     
  16. JeffTheLearner Registered Senior Member

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    Lawdog, did you know that you can not enter the Kingdom of God by Mary, Jesus referred to Mary as “woman” , second of all Yeshua said in, (John 14:6) “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me.” Jesus said “I am the bread of Life”, My friend why prostrate your self in front of one who I’m sure would testify herself that she can not save, and you don’t need to go through her. Yeshua said in (John 6:27), “Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father God, has set His seal.” The Roman Catholic house of prayer, is notoriously known for keeping tradition over Gods Word Yeshua said in (Mark 7:9), “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.”, (Exodus 20:4) says, “You shall not make for yourself an idol…”, I tell you these things not because I think I’m smarter than you, I’m just another fool enlightened by the Word, just like everybody else who finds Him. Read His Word my friend, set aside all the other books that tell you how to “understand” what your reading and let the Spirit of the Lord guide you. Remember this, Yeshua said in (John 13:16) “Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.” Yeshua spoke the Words of the Father, and Yeshua is the Word of the Father manifest as flesh the Beginning of creation. If our Lord and Savior, our Redeemer spoke as the Father instructed Him, should not the servants of Yeshua speak the Words of God, no servant is greater then his Master. May the Lord open your Eyes to see and your ears to hear, may He bless you with wisdom and discernment, these things are free if you just simply ask in faith.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------Love Jeff
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2005
  17. JeffTheLearner Registered Senior Member

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    I just wanted to make note I did not quit arguing with you all because, I cant argue, Its just clear to me that you just want to be right, truth or not, it don’t matter . I’m sure I made good points concerning Intelligent Design, just none of you want to listen, and some of you are not ready to listen. Look at yourselves, if the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and His son Jesus The Anointed, had overwhelming evidence to prove their existence, (which I will argue that there is). Considering all His ways, His justice, His righteous judgment, His ways of enforcing self discipline, His love for you, and His guidance to love others, Would you reject all His ways, and all the good pushed by Him toward your neighbor (and I’m not talking about those who twist scripture for their personal benefits), and those who seek and pursue Him, and help the afflicted, needy, and hungry in the process, Do you reject all that too? I think that maybe, in some cases among you, you don’t reject Intelligent Design, or Creationism, its that you don’t agree with God on something, and thus, all the logical, physical, and obvious proof in the world would not convince you, because you don’t want a God who tells you what’s right and wrong. Aside from this, unlike Lawdogs assumption that, I don’t know enough of the bible, I’m not boasting but Ive read it many times recently, I have Chapters memorized from the Word, I have apocryphal books, pseudepigraphic books, Hebrew, and Greek Interlinear books, book of Historians, Dead Sea Scrolls, 30 different translations of the Word, and books on other religions, and I tell you concerning the last books, concerning all the other religions Christianity is the best, and a personal relationship with God, FAR GREATER!!! Would are Creator leave us a guide book, nature all around says He would. So I’m done here because it seems like you all have everything figured out, and you don’t want or need my help because you all know everything, so it seems.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2005
  18. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Ever invite 'God' to join you for a cup of coffe?
     
  19. nameless Registered Senior Member

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    Does anyone else see the irony here? An alleged 'Learner' comming to teach everyone the 'one and only truth' (hubba, hubba, and amen!)
    Sheep's clothing indeed!
     
  20. Horseman42 Registered Senior Member

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    Absolutely right. All your arguments have been countered!

    I don't want to be right. I want to discover what is right. I'm open to your ideas and opinions, but I do not accept them because they are illogical and irrational. By the way you didn't make any points that weren't thoughly refuted by me or others here.

    Actually I was ready to listen, but you didn't make any sense. Just more of the same ID drivel I've seen and throughly refuted before.

    There is no overwhelming evidence, and you surely have not presented anything of the sort here.

    As I've explained before if your right I'm willing to admit it, and move on from there. I have no problem with a god who wants to tell us what is right or wrong, I just no evidence for his existance.

    Another Christian who is unwilling to stay to debate, or answer any serious questions about there faith. I'm seeing a trend here. Do all Christians just "jump ship" when they are thoughly refuted, rather than deal with the tough questions?
     
  21. JeffTheLearner Registered Senior Member

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    Well actually Horseman42 I've made many points on page 4 of this post and barely anyone refuted anything concerning most of what I put there, most of my arguments were simply to show 'Intelligent Design' thus, the high possibility of an incredibly intelligent Designer. Some of my points were to prove the superiority of Christianity, (not as a religion, but in a personal relationship.) Some people made no point they just thought it was kosher to insult me instead. And some made valid arguments, and some made retarded arguments. As to the proving of Yeshua as, existing you have more then 4 different accounts in the bible alone, which according to 'Foxes Book of Martyrs', and other documents the followers of Yeshua Himself believed to their own hurt, both by gruesome deaths, and by rejecting personal wants. You have unearthed documents from the Sanhedrin of the time in the D.S.S, explaining the death of Yeshua. You have Roman documents. You have testimonies from the enemies of Israel testifying of Yeshua, your have the Gnostic documents that have been recently unearthed that testify of Yeshua, you have many documents of just regular people of the land and their testimonies and much, much more, I did not even get into the archeological proof. As to the older books you have documentaries like 'The Exodus Revealed' and 'Search For The Real Mt. Sinai' which cover an array of topics, concerning the Exodus, and the real location of Sinai which is not the Sinai Peninsula because that was Egyptian territory, and it clearly states in scripture that they left the land of Egypt, and went into the land of Median, but anyways, you have lots of archeological proof concerning an array books. You have consistent reports among many ancient cultures of a world flood, you have bitter Egyptian Historians, documents from the Persian era referred to in the bible, still in existence, Enemies of Israel and their royal documents, there is just tons of proof pointing to the accuracy of the bible. For the last thing make note of this, despite all other religions, concerning Judaism and Christianity, these are faiths that burden people according to the indulgence of the 'sin nature', they both require, and place many responsibilities on any form of government and their leaders, it is not an attractive faith, and it would be a faith that all governments would reject, if they could. Many people reject truth, and do it easily, but some know truth when they see it, and cannot reject its requirements. But when you establish a personal relationship with God, and diligently seek Him, and get into His presence (which too many to mention will testify of the Power of His presence manifesting with myself added to that), you find out that your 'sin nature' is the burden, and to be set free from it makes you truly free, with true freedom, and great freedom to love, to love people in truth and not like a hypocrite. So thats all for now, I did not mean to type this much I wanted to make a short comment, but Oh-well. If you want me to get in dept as to why Christianity is the faith that excels all faiths, in truth and wisdom, ask and I'll start another tread concerning this topic.
     
  22. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    I've made many points on page 4 of this post and barely anyone refuted anything concerning most of what I put there

    Those are tired arguments that have been refuted many times over - you aren't the first one to present them and probably won't be the last.

    Some of my points were to prove the superiority of Christianity

    More tired arguments.

    I did not even get into the archeological proof

    There isn't any.

    there is just tons of proof pointing to the accuracy of the bible

    None that anyone has seen.

    But when you establish a personal relationship with God, and diligently seek Him, and get into His presence

    Many here have already tried that and have found little more than what they can conjure from their imaginations.

    If you want me to get in dept as to why Christianity is the faith that excels all faiths, in truth and wisdom, ask and I'll start another tread concerning this topic.

    And present yet more tired arguments?
     
  23. Horseman42 Registered Senior Member

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    Yes they were refuted. If this universe shows intelligent design then the designer shows even more intelligent design. By your own theory the designer must have another designer. You never addressed this point.

    The number of documents do not constitute a truth. It's simply the fallacy of numbers again. Just like the number of people who are Christian in this world do not make it true simply because of this fact.

    There are many other religious texts like the Baggiva gita, the Koran and others that have many historical roots too. Does that make them true as well?

    Seriously do you have anything new to offer us here or are you going to continue to use the same tired refuted arguments as Q pointed out earlier?

    Next time you type could you please type in a more clear format. I find it difficult to see all your points when they are all lumped together in one paragraph.
     

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