Thread For Christians Only.

Ok see now we come to the point of if Jesus is God? I made a thread, and you participated. If you wish to discuss this then post over there, because now no one is responding for the smiple fact Jesus never claimed to be God

"and born without a earthly fahter"

if this is a condition of being God, then Adam is a greater God because he had neither mother or Father.

"why would they say that if they knew themselves as sons of God"

Well first I would like to know the verse, because context matters. But anyways as we all know that Jesus wasn't liked by the Jews. Meaning they would NOT consider him the Son of God. It is possible that Jesus did something which made them realize that yes Jesus is the Son of God. But for me to give you a precise and more accurate answer I would need to know the verse, so I can see what the context is.

Peace be unto you

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If you notice I prefer to use the words The Creator to refer to GOD. The reason is that man have too often misused the word GOD - to an extent that it has become an impersonal word to too many.

'The Creator' - will create an interest in all and compel them to question themselves whether I am using the right description or not. Either way, this type of questioning will begin the way to personalising GOD, especially in the hearts of skeptics.

Thank You.

 

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Not a Biblical Teaching - Sorry!!

If you want, you could arrange for what you described to be done to you? There are many cults and sadists around to be at your command.

Let me clarify once and for all - THERE IS NO HELL!!!!!

Thank you.

 

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Out of all the prophets in The Holy Scriptures - only One literally said that ' to knoe Him is to know GOD' and that was The Christ.

True others were close to The Creator, but none were as close as The Christ.
Christians understand that this is one of the unique characteristics of The Christ - one which makes Him special and separate from all others.

By the way, no one else in their right minds - even the rest of the prophets - would even want to dare say that to know them is to know GOD. It would be sacriledge. But I personally look up to them as pillars of strength simply because they had problems and sinned and more importantly, they shook off their weaknesses and were outstanding examples of morality. I look forward to meeting these great Men of GOD in Paradise.

Thank You.

 

You have raised an interesting point concerning Adam. ( firstly - can we agree that the word GOD refers to The Father and the word God refers to The Son?).

The Scriptures state that the word god and gods is to be used to refer to the deities of pagans and non believers, so in fact these two words refer to demons/devils/fallen angels/wicked spirits, and even to satan himself, although The Scriptures give other descriptions to satan because it was he that led the movement to rebel agianst The Creator.

So, if you were to call Adam 'god' or 'a god' - you are quite right when you say that he would indeed have been of higher standing then The Christ (on earth) who would be given the deserved title God only after He ascended.

BUT Adam fell, The Scriptures speak of Adam as having 'equal' importance as The Christ, before he fell, whereas The Christ PROVED TRUE AND ROSE FULFILLED THE HUGE RESPONSIBILTY THAT THE CREATOR GAVE TO Him.

Also, why do you put too much significance on adam? - is not it him that has 'put everyone single one of his descendants to the test'?

Thank You.

 

Hi,

First of all I would hope this is a good dialogue which promotes understanding not hatred. I want to say on the outset that I don't hate Christianity I just don't agree with it, so please don't get offended by anything I say, because that is not what I am trying to do.

Ok Now to you comments.

No. I don't agree. I agree that God refers to the Father. But God doesn't refer to Jesus, in other words the Son. I will agree that god (emphasis on the small 'g' may refer to Jesus (Son))

As I said before, I think the "god" (emphasis on small 'g') is used for other than lets say "evil" or wrong people/dieties.

Well Cyperium refered to Jesus as God, and 1 reason he gave was that Jesus had no earthly father. In that sense I refered to Adam as a greater God (not god) because of the reason that Adam had no mother or father.

Sir I do not believe that if he ascended that he will be given the title of "God". I do not see your logic on how you tend to give him this title.

Sir to fulfill ones responsibility doesn't mean he is God. Now let me take you on this point, as you say Jesus and Adam were "equal" before Adam fell. Does that imply that Adam was God before he fell. If not then does that imply Jesus was not God either. After Adam fell he was not God, and after Jesus fulfilled his responsibility then he became, meaning he wasn't God before.

There is a big flaw in this type of reasoning which you are trying to go through.

Sir, obviously you don't know I'm a Muslim, otherwise you would (or at least should) know that Muslims do not believe in the concept of Original Sin.

No, Thank You for discussing.

Peace be unto you

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Firstly there is no flaw in my reasoning - you obviously would have not really understood me so i accept that.

Going back to your line of reasoning - that adam would have been a greater god then The Christ - I assumed you were focusing on that point only - the 'creating' point - which is why I said that what you inferred cannot be said to be wrong or if you insist - is right.

BUT only if the rules stated in THE SCRIPTURES as I have stated in terms of the WORDS that we use - are applied:

1. The Creator - GOD
2.The Son - God
3. All others - gods ( if you want - adam (who fell), fallen angels, evil spirits, demons, devils, pagan gods etc.


As Christians we refer only to The Father and to The Son. This is the DIVINE.

All the rest is just men deciding (for example, demon worshippers call their demons gods, some call the Sun and the moon as gods etc...)

And yes I did not know that you are a muslim otherwise I would not have mentioned that 'original sin' point.( although if you read my previous statements you would know that I have a different meaning concerning original sin and alot of things.)

Finally let me stress once more the conditions that I mentioned - your disagreeing with The Scriptural views is understandable but sad as you do not understand The Holy Scriptures. Since you are so interested in The Christ then I have to tell you that the Laws of The Holy Scriptures is the Greatest Laws ever written. anything or anyone that disagrees is irrelevant - either you believe or you dont believe - the choice is yours!!!

Part of the reason why alot of christians fall is the point that you have brought up and the confusion that people like you like to inject in their minds. Unfortunately, instead of getting them into another religion, the majority of these individuals end up believing in "No God".

And by the way - I do not believe in the trinity ( if you were thinking of bringing that up too!!! For more info. read my previous statements.)

Peace is with The Christ in whom I believe and therefore am part of - not with any mere human who 'dreams of walking on water'.

Thank you.

 

Your statement simply shat on the eye of the foundations of christianity. If there is no hell, there is no god, as both are interconnected with the reward-punishment system of belief that you so blindly follow.

 

Hmm... You don't believe in the Trinity. So do you consider Jesus as God.

Look the way you are discussing this point is by inferring many things in general and all that. Usually I don't discuss things like this because then this becomes a battle of the wits where whoever is able to make a case with which you can corner the other person wins.

I discuss with the verses of the Bible in particular.

So if you wish to discuss that Jesus is God, then I want you to prove it to me with your Bible, not with some questions to corner me into saying things. I can do this very well also, but that is not the way I try to discuss.

I hope to see your posts in my thread: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=44354

Peace be unto you

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Sadly , you did not get my point again!! Perhaps it would be better if you went to another thread - you will never be able to understand my point seeing as you do not believe in The Christ.

I talk common sense and logic.

And again, my Peace is with The Christ who Lives forever, not from mere men like you who will return to the dust that you were originally made from.

Thank You.

 

I have never denied the existence of Jesus Christ. I also believe he was the Christ. The problem with you is that you cannot prove your claims. If you talk common sense, then show it with proof.

You have yet to give 1, only 1 verse to support that Jesus ever claimed to be God.

Peace

 

Did you not get my point?

The Christ never said or claimed that he was The Father. Nor did the Disciples.

The Christ is The Son and shall always remain so. In one verse he is described as "Mighty God" - But never as "The Almighty GOD" which refers to The Father.

Thank You.

 

Ok you know what, it is not that I don't get your point, but it is that you are not explaining your point.

Look simple question. Do you believe that Jesus is God? or not? and How many Gods do you believe in? And any duality or anything?

Peace be unto you

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Jadon, you realize that you are just talking in circles? You are not making a lick of sense.

 

I have answered the question/s.

You just could not 'see' it.

Thank you.

 

I just wanted to point out the contradiction in this statement...

You say you are not in a position to judge god then how can you judge him as being good? In fact you state right after saying we cannot judge him that he is not unjust.

So which is it can we judge god like you obviously did, or not?

 

AB,

* So? Is Jesus god?

 

To judge God is to put Him or His deeds in question. We can't know by ourselves what purpouse God has, neither positive or negative, to make a statement that "God did 'that' because of 'that'" is wrong either positive or negative (if it wasn't inspirational). Both positive and negative may mislead, cause some of what we perceive as positive is not allways clearly positive in Gods eyes. Though God being good, is clearly positive and is not misleading. Actually it is not even judgemental, it is in the scriptures that He is good, He inspired the prophets, therefor I am not judging Him, since it is not by my judging.

I haven't been faced with this kind of question before...but this is as far as my understanding goes about "judging" at this time.

 

Jesus was with God from the beginning, Adam was not. Adam was the first man, but even so, Jesus was before him. Jesus is Gods Son. He is also described as Gods Son in the Bible. Gods only begotten son.

Matthew 14:
31Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"

32And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. 33Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."


Also interesting is;
Matthew 4:
6"If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:
" 'He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'"


and;
Matthew 27:
54When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!"


John 10:30
I and the Father are one."


and we finish with this, but there is probably more;
John 10:
33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.


In the swedish version of the bible the bold text is a bit different though, instead of "set apart as his very own" it said "made holy".

I don't know why that occured but nevertheless Jesus was understood to be Gods Son, so to the degree that they accused Him of blasphemy.

 

Using the words - god or God - you can say that.

But Not using the word -GOD.

Thank you.