To the people who think Rap is ignorant.

and please pardon the typos

 

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I would agree that no one should assert one genre of music is the greatest, but people that like rap do that all the time (not all of them, mind you, but the loudest generally do) and that is in fact a major reason that I don't like it.

 

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Musical expression is almost like a way of life, the way I see it. I love all genres, but rap is one of my favorites. The best rap comes from those that have lived that struggle, not posing just because it seems cool (*cough* 50 cent *cough, cough*). I never understood the meaning and deepness behind it all until I lived through it. Gang fights, robberies, po-po's (err...cops

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) chasing you all the time, that sh*t(can you curse in this forum?) is rough. Those that survive and rise above are few and far between.
:m:

 

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I never understood the meaning and deepness behind it all until I lived through it. Gang fights, robberies, po-po's (err...cops) chasing you all the time, that sh*t(can you curse in this forum?) is rough. Those that survive and rise above are few and far between.

So, you were/are a criminal? You rose above being a criminal or rose above the law?

 

See the thing is, its not deep. Shootign someone is nt deep, robbing someone is not deep. Rap is a message to disillusion society and its idyllic values. However that message is either poorly sent or the people that listen to it mistake that for "deepness."

 

What exactly is deep in meaning about using your less fortunate status as an excuse to take advantage of others, rob and kill people you don't even know, and generally abuse your abilities of survival to make sure others don't. A person that thinks of something like that is deep and manages to get away unscathed is a dreg of society that just has not recieved punishment yet.

 

If you survived gang fights and all that and want the world to know, why not write a book about it or make a movie of it? Things like poverty and racism and the like are much better demonstrated by things other than music.

The fact that a silly movie like "Scarface" attracts so many rappers demonstrates how primitive most rappers are. Only a degenerate would think of Tony Montana as a role model.

 

Ok Arqy, it's been a while, so I'm going to repost my paraphrase before I answer.

1. You seem to start by saying that music contains messages, and these messages affect our behaviour. Rap music, for the most part, has no "point" and does not "take" people anywhere.

2. Next, you say that rock music has many artists who have messages that "shine through" to "the people," like that they "generally don't give a crap." CCR made songs that "had no purpose," but they made "Fortunate Son," which had a poltical message, which served a purpose.

3. "The Wall" is on par with 1984.

4. "Iron Man" has unintended symbolism (what doesn't these days, eh?).

5. "Rap just generally doesn't work the same," meaning that rap music does not normally carry societal (Eleanor Rigby), political (Fortunate Son), or symbolic (Iron Man) meaning.

Now I'll respond point by point.

1. I don't feel that music has to have a function. One music is not better than another because of how its "message" effects people. This measurement is entirely subjective although it pretends not to be. And it breaks down after a few seconds thought. What message does Beethoven's 7th carry?

2. I don't think that politically charged songs are inherently superior to songs with no political agenda. I would still like "Fortunate Son" if I couldn't understand English and had no grasp of the politics.

3. Please.

4-5. Hip hop music does carry societal, political, and symbolic meaning. Almost every song does, in any genre. If you want examples of rap with explicit commentary, you can go underground (The Coup, Dead Prez, Immortal Technique, etc) or mainstream (Kanye West "Diamonds of Sierra Leone," Eminem "Mosh," lots of songs by Tupac and Biggie).

Arqy, it seems to me that you just don't like hip hop. That's fine. You seem like you have a pretty open mind, and maybe at some point you'll find something that grabs you, maybe not. But we need to stop acting like something as subjective as musical taste can be argued objectively to the point where an entire genre can be crap. It's just not going to happen.

 

Actually, Panopticon, remeber that you compared "The Wall" to 1984, I just said that was kind of like what I meant. Onto bigger and better things, I don't think of the entire genre of rap as crap. However, #1 I do not like it and do not like when others (not yourself mind you) try to force it down my throat, and #2 I do not like it when people claim rap is the greatest thing since, well...fire. It irritates me at no end when people get these notions in they're minds, and that is what has sparked my more single-minded assertions. Oh, and on another note, while I would agree that music doesn't have to have a meaning, and that songs can sound nice without one, I am not a major fan of that music. I like the sounds created by music of the old classics, like Beethoven or Mozart, but I don't listen to them often.

 

Give It Up You Dimwits. Kanye West Has The Number One Album In The Country. He Sold Over 900,000 Copies. End This Fucking Thread For Christs Sakes.

 

The amount of albums sold has nothing to do with this thread. This thread is for people who "think rap is ignorant" not for people who reject the idea that Hip Hop has a large part in todays pop culture....so unless your going to post something worth reading, dont post again.

 

to Panopticon I would first like to re-emphasize the truth that is music is a completely subjective topic but I tend to enjoy music with a "function" more than just random songs about...well nothing. Does this mean that music with a funtion is the greatest? Yes, but only to me and others who feel the same. I mean I enjoy classics, Everynow and then I will listen to some Mozart or another Pianist/Composer because I enjoy it. My point is simple, Music cannot be forced on to someone else and therfore arguing about music's...greatness or superiority is pointless...unless...no nm. It just cannot be argued.

 

i have a very eclectic taste in music

when you listen to different musics, in order to fully appreciate them its like fittin yourself into clothes

example. say you are listening to oold 1930s music. you knw those different singing voices they had....and te subjects are all cheery--some anyway. well just become that, and you'll enjoy it more rathe than judging it for a 'beethoven--orwhatever--is superior' mode of listening
same with flamenco. suddenly let your whole body feel the flamenco. feel the shoots of energy surge through the body at this deeply dramatic music. if yiou block your reponses you are allowing it is full potential to move you

rap to is anote form of musical communication withits own styles....i cant pretend to love the styles which praise guns, bling, homopgh, homophobia and misogny, but not all is like that
with some rap it brings out the sensual devil in me.......the ote day i a alistening to tis track. have forgoten artist and title of tun, but its this rapper rappin over some sampled riff of the late Ray Charles.....SHIIIIT thought i was gonna have an orgasm!!!!!!

rapping when done good is deeply skilled

 

Kanye West Has The Number One Album In The Country.

Yeah, he beat out Hillary Duff, a monumental talent. But it was only after he said:

"Bush doesn't care about black people..."

 

You guys are missing the point. The reason why Kanye's sales are significant is that his lyrics cannot be considered "ignorant" by anyone's standards, thus sweeping the legs out from under your argument.

 

His sales don't necessarily reflect the nature of his lyrics. Most imbeciles purchase rap because it "has a krunk beat". Only those with some sort of intellect would actually take the time to read his lyrics and understand and enjoy them. People praise Kayne as being an exception because the novel spectacle of "intelligent" rap intrigues them, much in the same manner people were intrigued by Eminem. This proves that some rap is not ignorant, but like almost all music in modernity, it is not necessarily intelligent either.

 

A sample of Kayne's lyrics - intelligent?

What in the fuck was that Kanye
I told you to do some shit for the kids
You can give me your muthafucking graduation ticket right now
You will not walk across that stage, you won’t slide across that stage
A muthafucka can’t pull you across that stage Kanye
Who told you see, I told you to do something up lifting
I’m trynna get you out here with these white people and this how you gone do me
You know what us a nigga
And I don’t mean that in no nice way
Had little kids sing about the shit, the jokes on you
You throw your mutha hands in the air, and wave good-bye to everybody
Cause you getting the fuck out of this campus
Mutha what you gone do now

 

The music business hate me
Cause the industry ain't make me
Hustlers and boosters embrace me
And the music i be makin
I dumb down for my audience
And double my dollars
They criticize me for it
Yet they all yell "Holla"
If skills sold
Truth be told
I'd probably be
Lyricly
Talib Kweli
Truthfully
I wanna rhyme like Common Sense
(But i did five Mil)
I ain't been rhymin like Common Sense
When your sense got that much in common
And you been hustlin since
Your inception
Fuck perception
Go with what makes sense
Since
I know what i'm up against
We as rappers must decide what's most impor-tant
And i can't help the poor if i'm one of them
So i got rich and gave back
To me that's the win, win
The next time you see the homie and his rims spin
Just know my mind is workin just like them
(The rims that is)



momnet of clarity- jayz
(he doesnt write anything down)

 

Retarded.

 

That was...hmm...not worth the time I put into reading it. Next!