Why is beleif in the son important.

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Streamline, Sep 11, 2005.

  1. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    3,782
    Think a little bit. If I did not believe what I believe. Then I would not be putting what I believe forward in here would I ? So why even ask that question to me? Your right you cannot read my mind but surely you can discern the obvious.



    God knows who He is and God knows what His will is and He knows who among those who claim to follow Him actually do. What does it matter if 1000 different schools of thought have 1000 different views on the will of God if they are all different and only one is correct then 999 are false and those who follow them are doomed.



    That’s not an easy question. But at the same time it is an easy question. Why?

    Because it matters not a jot weather the Allah they believe in is the God of Abraham. There is no point in believing in God but not believing in His will. Satan believes in God and he is destined for the eternal lake of fire. Believing in and accepting the will of God is the key to salvation.


    Romans 4:3
    For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

    See what it say: Abraham believed God, not Abraham believed in God. Believing in God saves no one. Abraham was accounted as rightious because he had faith in Gods will for him.



    You measure success and failure on popularity. Sorry God is not a politician dwelling in a democratic heaven.



    Do you want to be credible or petty?




    No. Because I believe God and God forgives me my faults.




    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
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  3. Streamline Registered Senior Member

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    No motivation? Has one of the Gods told you this?

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  5. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    OH really Adstar. To my knowledge. Islam is the only NON-Christian religion which MAKES it an article of FAITH to believe in him. If we don't we are not Muslims.

    It is you who REJECT "HIS WORD AND WHO HE IS". His words you have corrupted, but who he is, he is a prophet of God!!!!! NOT A GOD, which your corrupted church has taught you about the trinity, which none of Early Christians believed in but which was fully established close to the 4th century, and was a product of 3 centuries.

    Peace be unto you

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  7. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    3,782

    I believe in His word. He says He is the alpha and omega. I believe.

    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  8. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    3,782
    You place your faith in a man muhammed you trust that he was visited by an angel of God you trust in it because you agree with the words that are held within the delivered message. So be it. people will be aproved or condemned by what they approve as the Word of God.

    Galatians 1
    6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.


    You see even if an angel visited muhammed and gave him the koran. that does not assure the truth of the revelation. because satan is not the only angel that is in rebellion against God. God allows those who have rejected the Love of the Truth to be deceived by great deception.

    So the angel is accursed and muhammed is accursed and all whom have ever believed in that lie of satan called the koran are accursed. And if you do not reject the koran and accept the true Messiah Jesus before your death so shall you be accursed.

    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  9. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    20,855
    Your right you cannot read my mind but surely you can discern the obvious.

    So, you refuse to answer the question? Is your view of god the correct view?

    What does it matter if 1000 different schools of thought have 1000 different views on the will of God if they are all different and only one is correct then 999 are false and those who follow them are doomed.

    Quite simple really, I'm surprised you would ask that question. Would you rather be part of the 999 and be doomed? You will never know until the day of judgment, would you?

    Why would anyone choose religion at all if they knew they only had a one in a thousand chance of following the correct god? I suspect though, the odds are much higher than that considering the variety of religions and views of god.

    Believing in and accepting the will of God is the key to salvation.

    That's what all theists believe, isn't it? You contradict yourself.

    No. Because I believe God and God forgives me my faults.

    So do all other theists, again, you contradict yourself.

    Here is a perfect example of your contradictions:

    786: "It is you who REJECT "HIS WORD AND WHO HE IS"."

    And your rebuttal:

    "And if you do not reject the koran and accept the true Messiah Jesus before your death so shall you be accursed."

    It appears you are both doomed.
     
  10. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    3,089
    And why do you accuse me of believing Muhammad (pbuh) because he was visited by an Angel? Did I say that is the reason I believe him?

    You used an arguement which I guess you overlooked can be easily used against you. That word is of Paul. You believe in a man you was persecuting Christians, and tah dah!!!! He sees Jesus (pbuh) and falls to the ground!!!!. You can ask your historians who is really the minds behind Christianity, Jesus or Paul!!!

    And you take the words of Paul!!! Even Paul says that there are other Bible preaching a "different gospel". How is it that there gospel is wrong. Obviously for Paul he is preaching the "right" gospel and the others are preaching the "wrong" gospel.

    Peace be unto you

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  11. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    Adstar,

    One more think I'm pretty sure Paul preached the 1 John 5:7 to the so-called followers of Christ, cuz now it is proven fabrication!!!!

    Peace be unto you

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  12. anonymous2 Registered Senior Member

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    As I mentioned before, who is to say that "Paul" himself wasn't influenced by "Satan" or another evil force? Or any of the NT authors weren't? If you notice in the NT, "Paul" refers to "my gospel"? Why was it "his" gospel and not just THE gospel? Does it kind of make you wonder?

    And, of course, the Jews won't have any of this. Is there any objective reason besides the NT's own claim to believe the NT authors, etc weren't themselves influenced by Satan or another evil force? It can't be because they preach against Satan/an evil force/evil, cause the Qur'an also does that, right? And some Christians believe the Qur'an is from Satan. It can't be because it preaches some good morals, because other books do that, right?

    Also, the interesting I see from what "Paul" said is that an "angel from heaven" could preach something different than what he had preached. Notice that he doesn't mention a "fallen angel" or "demons" or "Satan" in this passage, but rather an "angel from heaven". Why would he be concerned about the possibility of an "angel from heaven" preaching something different than he was preaching, unless what he was preaching was not in reality "the truth"?

    I'm not entirely sure of the big distinction between believing God and believing in God, for there's this verse:

    2nd Chronicles 20:20

    And they rose early in the morning, and went forth into the wilderness of Tekoa: and as they went forth, Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.

    And John 14:1

    Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2005
  13. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    3,782
    what kind of crazy logic does your mind run on?

    Two contradictory statements cannot both be right. They can of course both be wrong. But in no way can both be right. Maybe you cannot see the obvious?



    There is no chance or gamble involved. One either believes in the truth or one does not. I am either saved or i am doomed.



    I believe in the Word of God and trust in His promise. You talk of chances but what chance do you have? A person who does not believe in God at all?

    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  14. Adstar Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,782
    You think that satan is the only angel in rebellion against God? take a read of John's prophesy.

    Revelation 12
    7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  15. anonymous2 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    299
    Well, let me ask you this, are Satan and his angels here on earth, with free reign to go back into heaven? The usual position of the Bible of an "angel" in heaven would be one who's on God's side, isn't it? There's this verse:

    Revelation 14:6: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

    An angel flying in the midst of heaven, who seems to be on God's side.

    Also, I find it extremely odd that an omnipotent God would allow Satan and his angels free reign, not only on earth, but access to heaven. Seems like he'd put a stop to that, and soon.
     
  16. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    20,855
    Two contradictory statements cannot both be right. They can of course both be wrong.

    Exactly, that has been my point all along, they ARE both wrong.

    If a god does in fact exist, it is neither one you both believe to be, therefore you're doomed simply because you worship false gods.

    Maybe you cannot see the obvious?

    That was the obvious.

    One either believes in the truth or one does not. I am either saved or i am doomed.

    That would not be true if only one person knew the truth and would most likely not be true if believed by even a group - but it may very well be true if everyone knew the truth.

    I believe in the Word of God and trust in His promise. You talk of chances but what chance do you have? A person who does not believe in God at all?

    Affirmations for you and patronizing for me? Was there some flash of doubt in your mind that you might not be that one-in-a-thousand?

    My chances? Same as yours - when both of us are in the ground, its party time for all the little wormies.

    And that, as they say, is that.
     
  17. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,089
    Ok, I'm just going to answer the intial question of the thread.

    The reason that belief in the "son" reffering to Jesus (pbuh) is so important is because he was the prophet of God, and had he Word of God, thus rejecting or refusing to believe him is refusing to believe the prophet but importantly refusing to believe the Word of God, which mean refusing to believe he commands of God.

    Believing as the "son" as God is not important, but believing as the "son" NOT to be God is really important!!!. If someone wishes to discuss this visit my thread http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=44354 and be sure to look at http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=30133 so you don't repeat the verses unless there is more to it.

    Peace be unto you

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  18. Streamline Registered Senior Member

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    How can our God know that there is not a stealthy God above him. Just as we cannot know if there is a stealthy God above us, our God cannot know either! No matter what your faith tells you, this is a point of logic that no faith can answer better.
     
  19. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

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    3,058
    I don't think you are blind. But you seem to expect too much.
     
  20. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    5,758
    It is of no consequence what you think. The bible is a higher authority than you, and it clearly states that I have indeed been blinded. You have no case.

    And you make that estimation based upon what?
     
  21. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    3,782
    Once again you think that the truth is established by popular consent. Sorry it does not work out that way with God. Time and time again the Bible tells of only small minorities believing in the truth God and accepting His will.

    Biblical prophesy states of the End Times:

    Luke 17:
    26And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:

    Guess how many people where right with God then?

    2 Peter 2:
    5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;

    Jesus made this statement about His return:

    Luke 8
    8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

    So don't be surprised that so few follow Him in the true Faith.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  22. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    20,855
    Once again you think that the truth is established by popular consent. Sorry it does not work out that way with God.

    I don't know where you get the idea of popular consent, I never once said that. So, obviously, you misunderstood me or I haven't made myself clear. I'll try once again.

    If god reveals himself to people, as claimed by theists, then god would have had to reveal himself to ALL people, not just one or a group, but ALL people. ALL people would therefore have a crystal clear understanding of god, equally and unequivocally. In other words, god would be imbedded in EVERYONES mind. That is his intent. One may therefore reject that understanding in order for free will to exist.

    It is utterly useless for everyone to have misunderstandings and misconceptions of god, exactly for the reasons YOU have just quoted from scriptures.

    Is that any clearer?
     
  23. Adstar Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,782
    Not sure if satan still has access to heaven it all depends if the Revelation prophesy has come to pass: I think He is earth bound now.

    Revelation 12
    7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    But the fact that satan has had and may still have freedom of movement between heaven and earth is established in the Book of Job.

    Job 1:7
    And the LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?” So Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

    And

    Job 2:2
    And the LORD said to satan, “From where do you come?” satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”




    I never stated that there where not Angels in Heaven Loyal to God? Micheal is one of them. The angel spoken of in Revelation 14:6 is another one of them.



    It may be odd to you but the book of Job gives a hint as to why God allows satan to do what he does in a "restrained" manner. satan must be allowed to demonstrate to the Heavenly Host why he is worthy of destruction Just as God has demonstrated to the Heavenly Host by His actions that He is truly justified in being the Only God.

    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     

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