Doesn't matter. He said name one. He got the mad pretention that rap was the greatest of all time and he got it shoved in his face. I would also like to point out that the reason I don't like rap is because of the messages that most of it trys to convey (not all though) and because of people like Blackrain who try to push it on others. Besides, all the hot girls around here are rockers.
Some of them, yes. But do you think Eminem's sales are going to continue for another 20 years? Dr. Dre's? 50 Cent's? Tupac's?
sorry i deviated there. Rap is definately not classical music. I have heard rap with thse three qualifiers though. I dont think the classical defination of music is necessarily supposed to typify all forms of music. and does solo instrumental winds composition have harmony? I suppose chalk it up to the fact that that defination was probaby arrived at hundreds of years ago huh. My dad still insists that music beyond the jazz standards aint music. its shit. soooooo... I guess it comes down to.. you cant argue taste. jesus. pepsi is better. no coke is. I like a good hamburger and arichoke smoothie.
Of course hip-hop is music. Contemporary hip-hop production, combined with rapping, gives the music a rhythmic, harmonic and melodic sophistication greater than most blues or rock songs (When I say most, I mean the average song. Obviously there are particular examples of blues or rock songs that are far and away more complicated than most). But that's really beside the point. I think the whole idea of saying a genre is or isn't music based of music theory requirements is ridiculous. There isn't a line that divides "music" from "not music." So if I'm hitting a drum, that's not music, but if I whistle a tune while hitting a drum, that suddenly is? Who decides how complex it has to be before qualifying? A certain amount of organization has to be imposed on the sound to separate it from noise, but how much order is needed is just opinion, and always will be. Btw, haven't any of you hip-hop naysayers read your pop music history? Jazz "wasn't music," rock "wasn't music," etc. Each time the members of the older generation couldn't relate to the new form and attacked it. Then eventually they died off and everyone moved on. I think if this poll included age, the results would prove my point. I'll bet that there aren't many people on this forum under 35 who would say hip-hop isn't music. If someone said today that jazz wasn't music, they would be justly ignored. And that's how it will be with hip-hop in fifty years. I'll probably feel the same way about whatever garbage my kids end up listening to.
Rap will never be accepted as a valid musical form the way jazz has. So yes, both originated in black communities, but then what else? Jazz is considered "America's classical music" and in many respects that's a valid thing to say. Jazzmen are often as musically capable as classical musicians. But what are rappers skilled at doing? Using the turntable? Talking? Think the world will not have moved from its present infatuation with primitiveness and onto more complex terrain by then?
The complexity is there, Gerry, you just have to look for it. I mean, if you want to talk theory... the polyrhythms between the rapper's voice and the beat, compounded by the inherent rhythm of speech and stress of syllables, can be amazing when done right, and actually often remind me of Armstrong's rhymic improvisations in his solos, with the tiny time divisions. And the harmonic effects of music made from samples is something that has never appeared before in musical history. Producers like the RZA layer samples from songs in different keys or modes, each one's pitch slightly altered so as to play in time, and the whole mess painstakingly crafted and honed until it sounds hot. Is the average rapper or producer as versed in theory as a jazz musician? Obviously not. But you should really learn more about something before you spout off. I mean, when I read "using the turntable? talking?"...oh boy. You ever tried scratching or rapping? Anyway, if you want some suggestions of hip hop to listen to or anything, just let me know.
Ok, I don't want to get too nasty and I agree that rap has a few things going for it. One is that it is the predominant African American musical form today, so obviously its bound to say some things about that culture. But I've tried to understand rap, and have never really got it. Occassionally Jay Z I try out, but I'd never call him a 'musician'. As for the others, those working in the supposed 'rap underground', I guess I haven't really heard them... But the little I've heard, I can't say I'm very impressed with. Especially not with Eminem, who's a real irritant.
well, my definition of music would simply be it has to make noise, and it must have been put forth as music by someone so i voted yes
Rap is about some guy standing in front of a microphone and having a good rant at the world. And that is great fun. Hence it’s popularity. The problem with rap is that the music tends to be added on as an afterthought and is subordinate to the words. As such it can be poor and very repetitive. If you can’t hear the words (or just aren’t interested in some morons ranting) all you are left with is some very repetitive backing beat. Hence it’s unpopularity.
good raw rap is improvisional>>>just like jazz> especially its beginningins on te street when i was a kid they way i listened to music was that i heard lyrics like notes> so i would sing the wrong words caus i was more into te over all rytthm what can piss me off is when i really dig a rap< and find the words suck>>>>you know about bitches and hos shit>>>>yet it still can turn me on if th rithms hot it is rthe most sensual music>>>in a raw way> as is blues jaz soul>>all music done wit feeling in a deep integral way i connect with Blues the best cause itsmore honest>>>some rap can be posturing> an aggressive reaction>>>>but some is more senstive and thats the stuff i really get off on> >>i dont like the idea of rithims vooduin youth to crime glorification>>>>NAZ has tackeld issues about warning off youth from that fukin road
Music is that which is considered music by the listener, from a hammer on an anvil to Mozart. It really doesn't matter. Selling albums does not recognize talent or quality music. It merely shows that crap can sell, simply because most people either have bad taste in music or don't want to think very much. Rap fulfills those needs because those people just want to hear a hammer on an anvil, everything else is fodder.
Why do people always ask questions like this? "Is rap music." "Are soap operas drama." "Is reality tv entertainment." "Is butoh dancing." "Is post-modernism art." "Are comic books literature." "Is a bunch of rocks on a bed of sand a garden." Does it matter? No matter how brilliantly and clearly you define art, or some genre of art, there will always be stuff that falls right smack on the boundary. Who cares?
Well, yes rap is just poetic output, mixed with music to make hip-hop... If u know how to count bars, and see counter-rhythm.. you'd understand. Some rap music is so brilliant, that nothing comes close. It's songs like those that escape people trying to criticize rap/hip-hop. A load of good examples can be found in Tupac songs. "Letter to my Unborn", "Baby don't Cry", "Brenda Gotta Baby", "Hearts of Men", etc. It can be irritating, to hear Sean"Diddy"Combs pissing and moaning about how he's on top of the world, or listening to Chingy telling you how to get girls and how he keeps his bling-bling as shiny as his gold teeth. To some, that's entertainment. However, they have their own profound songs. They just need to be heard. Writing people off for their tastes is bad. No one is here to set and enforce benchmarks. Just as u say (c)rap sells cuz morons like it, one can say rock is for life hating pricks, and stoned ass - spike headed delinquints. It's all about what is being accepted, and what has a better "Coolness" rating. Undeniably black people, (to whom this genere predominantly belongs) are good at what they do; be it their voice, their dancing, or just the way they carry themselves... Hand it to them and quit moaning how bad they can be. (o.k. This is veering off course.) Finally, rap/hip-hop is cool, it's laid-back, and is most definitely, very popular. Rock may be equally popular, but baggy pants and bling-bling will score over piercing ur butthole, and wearing spikes all over you.. Anyday! We've all seen the Biker and his Chick, haven't we!!?
mmmmmmmm i enjoyed your insightful post....welcome here was doing the vaccin and had a hip hop tape on today and was remember this thread....of course the way id do housework is part that and dancin if a good grooves on....i remeber the jazz saying 'it dont mean a thang if it aint got that swing'...well. i thought 'if yo dont know how to mooove, then you dont dig the grooove'...hahaget me. rap isn'treally JUST for listening to. you have to feel te riddim. THEN it can make mo sense. its an all over body experi-ENCE.......
It's all about what is being accepted, and what has a better "Coolness" rating. Exactly, rap has nothing to do with making good music. Finally, rap/hip-hop is cool, it's laid-back, and is most definitely, very popular. Rock may be equally popular, but baggy pants and bling-bling will score over piercing ur butthole, and wearing spikes all over you.. Anyday! So, for you, music is all about how one looks as opposed to ones talent for making it?
Its obviously been established that rap is music. But it hasn't been proven as a form of "good" music.
loooook, in te early 70s you had all tese mostly middle class 'prgressive' rock eds yeah....doing tese graaaande guitar marathon wankin sessions...totally up their arses then ame te much needed arrival of Punk which brought back energy and rawness to music, where youth, especially working class coudl relate to.....some highbrows put it down saying it was just 3 chord crap....and not 'reaaaal music' or 'good music'....but it had energy and aliveness shit have any of you seen a concert hall with your 'good music' if thatas what yer iinto. and every one in audience is totally stiff???? i have an eclectic taste. there is good and bad in all music forms including rap. dont just write off the whole genre as bad or itmakesyer look sad...less of course yas mean BAAAAAd hehe
Rock may be equally popular Lets' set the record straight here. There is a lot of bad rock music, as there is a lot of bad music in general, any genre. If one is simply interested in listening to music and doesn't care one way or another if its bad or good, then rap will entertain. Some only want to listen to good music of any genre and rap simply hasn't produced it.
