Atheists have to much wishful thinking for their lifetime

First to start out with Im a atheists and i do not believe in any higher power or any afterlife or anything like that.

After Reading thorugh many of the posts in the religion section, i noticed alot of the nonbelievers here that dont believe in a afterlife think their is gonna be some major medical breakthrough that will stop the aging process, and make them live alot longer. Some how humans will find immortality before their death cause they are scared of not existing. Not to pick on you cris but I have noticed you expecially think their is gonna be an anti age thing created before you die from reading a few of your posts. What proof do you have for any of this? I seriously doubt anything like that will come out in our lifetimes and we will die in our 70s and go into the ground. I aint gonna live my life like every day something amazing is gonna come out from medical science and is gonna extend my life period by a huge amount. I will just accept the fact that if i dont get plowed over by a car or die from a disease or anyting else like that I will die when im 70 from old age or maybe make it to 80. i know females live a little longer by like 10 years.

 

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Good point. People who are still trapped in a humanist (read: secular Christian imitation) delusion tend to think that their life is of some infinite importance and that deep down they cannot handle the existential dread. Those with a naturalistic point of view accept the fact that they will die, even if they don't want to. Death is not an ego-based experience but a physical truth that no amount of denial or escapism can stop, and you can face it with dread and misunderstanding or you can accept that you are part of an organic world that requires your death to survive.

 

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Ck,

No problem, but I don't think there are many who think as I do on this issue. Proof? None, but then I'm not claiming it will happen for sure, it is just my best hope. But as a backup plan I will be registering with Alcor for cryogenic preservation in the hope that breakthroughs in the future will occur.

Either way I don't plan to give in to the fatalistic approach of thinking nothing can be done. I simply have a strong survival instinct. It is not a matter of fearing death just that I don't consider death an acceptable alternative to life.

 

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hager cool yea i think death is unavoidable and is required and i know that i will die. I dont think their will be any medical breakthrough. Cris that is cool about cryogenic preservation but i read something on how that wont work i dont remember where i read it im gonna try and get my sources together. it was a video documentary on it.

 

This certainly doesn't apply to me. Although I expect life expectancy to increase, you can only delay the inevitable. I am used to the fact that I am likely to die within 50 years and will no longer exists in anyway besides my rotting corpse. I'm ok with this.

I'm at least happy that I will not live and therefor die under the illusions or wishful thinking of thesists.

 

It doesn't apply to me either. I won't die.

 

I will die, and that will be it (probably), so what? you only get one shot at life, make something of it.

 

Sorry, that one must have missed. I was trying to imply that there's no point ck27 worrying about the deaths of atheists because you can't prove to an individual that he or she will die. I was definitely not treading some wierd mystic path

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I could just be the exception!

 

OK for the record. I expect that we will solve the issue of involuntary death through biological means, but will it happen in my lifetime, I'm currently 52? Not sure, but if medical science continues to make advances then I suspect my lifetime will increase substantially. I do come from a long lived family. The longer I live the more time science will have to curing the disease of involuntary death. I am more than hopeful especially if you follow some of the current research - see the link below.

For more information on all these issues see www.imminst.org - note that their logo is my avatar.

Ultimately I don't see that we have a viable biological future especially if we want to travel out into more hostile territory of outer space where to always take a part of our earthlike envionment with us will be a signficant hindrance. I am certain that mind uploading or variations on that theme are our longer term evolutionary path, where we will not need, air, food, sleep, or gravity to survive, and where lifetimes will be open-ended.

 

ck27,

See the link to imminst.org that discusses cryogenics in some detail.

Most of the problems surround the freezing process where ice crystals form in the cells and break the cells - not much good for later revival. The newer techniques use petrification that avoids the ice crystal formation.

 

I think Atheists use wishful thinking because they are scared of life. They are scared of the thought that they would have to be reborn on earth and go through all painful experiences again.

I mean... I know it would be awesome to just vanish after I leave the body, and all suffering would end but I could never live with such a fantasy!

What I don't get is how atheists think it is wishful thinking to believe that we come to paradise/hell or reincarnate... that sounds like hell to me... even the paradise... I would feel sorry for all those people who came to an eternal hell. No one deserves that (but I know its bull)

Immortality in the body is impossible. Everything that has a beginning must have an end. Thank "Life" for that.

"Sad" but true, it is impossible to die. The life which gives animates the leaves on a tree, inhales the life from them on autumn. The empty covers die, but not the life which again creates new leaves and new trees and new instruments for itself.

If we would dissapear when the body dies, it would be impossible to be afraid of death.

If heaven exists, it is non-existence, and if hell exists, it is existence.

 

Who among you has ever cheated death? Who can avoid the Judgement?

 

I have never died yet, even though the universe has been around for.... ever. I don't remember being born... how would it be possible for me to "die"? only the body dies u know.

I haven't avoided "judgement" though... God judges people when they are on earth. or rather... we judge ourselves.

 

Scared of life? Scared of having to be "reborn on Earth"? This assumes that athiests or agnostics give this thought serious credability as anybody with a bit of common sense or grey matter between their ears can tell you that it is as close to 100% as you can get, that it will never happen.

Even if I am somehow "reborn" as you say as though you know for sure it will, I won't be aware of it. I certainly don't have any memories of having past lives so I don't fear being alive after death even if I allow myself to believe this remote possability.

I also find it funny that you call it a 'fantasy' that death means death. All I can say is, take a deep breath and take in everything around you, because this is the only shot you will get.

 

Ok cris ive been looking at the site a little bit ill post my views on it later.

C7 You think atheists are scared of living and wouldn't want to go through life again? So your saying that we wish that our lifes were worthless and when we die it is over? I think most atheists take that stance cause they accept reality it would be much easier to say oh boy when i die ill be going to a better place where everything will be just great. I dont know how you call our beliefs of no afterlife our wishful fantasy i dont think many atheists wish for that. Most of us just accept fact and reason, and logic and all that fun stuff. yes all life will end and that will be it. (Oh yeah this might not be the stance of all atheists i am speaking more for myself)

This thread was created more for atheists that know that thier is no afterlife and when we die we cease to exist. I really dont want people trying to shove their christianity in here hopeing to get a few converts their are plenty of other threads on this board to go do that so do it somewhere else. This thread is more about starting debate on medical science and new ways that life can be extended. IM very skeptical on it but I wanted to see other atheists opinions on it.

 

C7,

Don’t you have this reversed? Isn’t it theists who use wishful thinking by believing they will cheat death? Why do you think atheists are scared of life? Again the atheist is the one prepared to face the realities of life and death, with no hope of life beyond – why is that wishful thinking?

Which myth are you referencing? In Christianity the promise is a paradise beyond death – why wouldn’t that be attractive to everyone?

Welcome to atheism then.

It’s a common religious concept especially in Christianity and Islam. It’s wishful thinking (fantasy) because no one can show it has any basis in reality.

Why? Bacteria are immortal all the time they can find nutrients. Some cacti have no life cycle and so do some trees, and there is a frog that lives in the arctic that appears to have an open ended lifetime. The disease of human aging is just a disease that hopefully can be cured like any other.

Why?

Except for bacteria of course.

Thought you just said that everything must have an end.

What is the difference between death and disappearing? Don’t they both represent non-existence? Perhaps we should distinguish between the process of dying, which many fear, and death itself (non-existence).

Fear of either is not mandatory. Pain and suffering can be endured without fear, as many have done, and death itself can be simply accepted as inevitability. For the strong minded death is not necessarily something to be feared, merely a major bummer.

But for the weaker minded where eventual non-existence presents a major obstacle to sanity then we have religion that attempts to seduce the gullible into believing that death is a gateway to a wonderful paradise – i.e. the exact opposite of what we observe. In this sense religion is the biggest con-trick man has ever devised and is totally reprehensible.

 

Ok, maybe you don't fear it then, but I hate it. I hate to always live and exist. It gets boring and painful to live in a body. I would want to stop existing, but I just can't... life can never end... the scientists say the universe is like 5 billion years old and still i'm here... i don't remember my birth, i know i will never stop existing........

To believe that "I" would stop existing just because my body, the outer cover, the clothes, are worn-out.... is just too illogical for me, and too good to sound true. also... how could non-existence "exist"?

It would be EASIER to say that???!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How could one even say that if one does not believe that?? You can't.

And what do you mean with "going to a better place"???? Isn't nonexistence the best "place" there can be since there are no sorrow or happiness, just nothingness forever? It can never get boring..... no suffering ever.... that sure sounds like paradise to me!

Trust me, life isn't always so nice.... you'll be born again on earth, forever... in an endless cycle.... unless there is something like nirvana which kills our personality and consciousness so that we come into a kind of non-existence.

I wish that and I'm an atheist... at least, I don't believe in God and I'm not a part of any religion. I just believe in reincarnation because it sounds the most rational.

But I guess you don't want to stop existing because your life is good. My life is pain so I would like to stop existing.

Of course... anything is possible.... but I still can't believe that I would stop existing. That would be the end of everything. All life, because the self is the life..... but the self is not the body... and i know that.

You have no power over them, they have free will to say anything they want.

 

c7,

But of course you wouldn't be around to benefit from those wonderful experiences.

 

C7 i have never heard that before of nonexisting being the best thing. c7 sorry for just accusing u of being christian but you are not atheist if you believe in reincarnation, im not sure what you are though.

 

I'm refering to reincarnation. I wouldn't want to go to the Paradise because I would feel sorry for those in hell. Paradise would be worthless if everyone doesn't go there.

You think I will believe in the "existence" of non-existence only because it sounds nice to me? I believe in stuff that make sense, to me personally. If there is non-existence, it will require hard work.

Everything that has a beginning has an end.

The earth will kill you. People will kill themselves. The sun will stop burning. The universe will destroy you. "Nothing" lasts forever, and it is the only thing that lasts forever.

What has a beginning must have an end. Why?

If you find the beginning of a road, don't you think it has an end? Where would it go except to an end? Only a circle can be without an end, because it has no beginning.

You thought, but you didn't know. I didn't say that everything has an end, I said that everything that has a BEGINNING has an end. Life (in our advanced bodies, we recognize that as the "self") has no beginning.

Cris, to you they are the same, because you identify yourself with your body so you think you are merely a body, living between space and time. You don't recognize the formless self in you which had no birth. You only recognize a person, which is merely a part of the body-- it's mental copy.

I was never born. I have no country or family. Only my external covers, bodies/persons, dies, over and over again. I clothe myself in new bodies without having any control of it, because I (existence) am already there; omnipresent in both space and time.

I didn't know I was strong minded.

I don't want the experiences and I don't want existence.