To the people who think Rap is ignorant.

Discussion in 'Art & Culture' started by Blackrain, Aug 4, 2005.

  1. Arquibus Master of Useless Information Registered Senior Member

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    Let me say something unbiased in any way. The message in music is made of what you can find within it. The fact is music can only direct you towards certain things, it cannot control where you go. Now for the bias. Where has mainstream rap ever taken anybody? I know there are rap songs that are good and do have some kind of point, but they are few and far between in popular settings. I believe they are more apt underground. In the meantime, rock songs have a large amount of meaningful lyrics from many different artists. Indeed, an artist can pump out many pointless, bleeting songs that are so similar, like the "silly" as Paul McArtney put it, love songs. But the Beatles were also responsible for several meaningful songs, most particularly "Eleanor Rigby", which is a song that illustrates the way people generally don't give a crap. The Rolling Stones had a great deal of pointless songs, but songs like "Paint It, Black" and "Ruby Tuesday" shine through as messages to the people. Credence Clearwater Revival did a lot of feel-good songs that had no purpose, but "Fortunate Son" was flashlight and mirror handed to various well-off people in the USA. Pink Floyd is a bit odd and seems almost too psychedelic to be for real, but the dehumanization presented in the whole of the album "The Wall" was a warning to us all, on par with that of books like Nineteen Eighty-Four or Farenheit 451. Even a screaming metal death-trap like "Iron Man" by Black Sabbath has a little symbolism warning visible, but it was probably unintended. Rap just generally doesn't work the same.
     
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  3. panopticon707 Panopticon Registered Senior Member

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    Arqy, I'm having some trouble understanding you. I'm going to write out my understanding of your post and then respond once you let me know if I'm hearing you right.

    1. You seem to start by saying that music contains messages, and these messages affect our behaviour. Rap music, for the most part, has no "point" and does not "take" people anywhere.

    2. Next, you say that rock music has many artists who have messages that "shine through" to "the people," like that they "generally don't give a crap." CCR made songs that "had no purpose," but they made "Fortunate Son," which had a poltical message, which served a purpose.

    3. "The Wall" is on par with 1984.

    4. "Iron Man" has unintended symbolism (what doesn't these days, eh?).

    5. "Rap just generally doesn't work the same," meaning that rap music does not normally carry societal (Eleanor Rigby), political (Fortunate Son), or symbolic (Iron Man) meaning.

    Is this an accurate paraphrase?
     
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  5. Arquibus Master of Useless Information Registered Senior Member

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    Pretty much. I'm not saying that some rap might not have a point, nor am I saying that all rock does. My first statement basically means music is whatever you can take out of it. My thoughts are people should listen to whatever they like, but they should consider what they get out of it. My biggest problems with rap are 1-Most of it (at least mainstream) is about the same thing and 2-a great deal of rap listeners, the most vocal ones in particular, try to force their music on others. Then, you get a thread like this with an empty argument, and it all falls apart. I have respect for certain rappers, on par with my respect for any other person. However, that does not mean I like or would listen to their music.
     
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  7. Arquibus Master of Useless Information Registered Senior Member

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    Oh, and sorry about me confusing you. I have a very odd manner of speaking and arguing sometimes. My teachers get particularly mad when I write essays...
     
  8. Koolz Registered Member

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    um, oddly enough, I completely agree, with one tinsy change. That's the problem with all popular music.
     
  9. Gerry Registered Senior Member

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    Listen to the Blues. That way you can hate rap as much as you want to and people can't say you're racist.

    And its good stuff, The Blues. Really. And by the way, music is not poetry. It affects on a different, some would say more basic, level than poetry does. So the words as such don't have to appear so mysteriously complex on paper if they can sound really powerful if actually sung.

    Which is why John Lee Hooker's lyrics don't look as if they were written by Joyce. But hearing him sing is a delight.
     
  10. Arquibus Master of Useless Information Registered Senior Member

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    I do listen to blues, actually. Not a whole lot, mind you, there are no blues stations around here, but my classic rock station plays some. Funk and soul are also more dominated by black, and I like those styles. However, I must say that music is a form of poetry, a different genre with different style, but still poetry. And to Koolz, I would agree that a great deal of modern music has no point, not just rap. But I can point out some modern rock bands, like Shinedown, Alter Bridge (ugh) and Three Doors Down that have written some meaningful stuff. Even System of a Down, which is my favorite modern band, has some meaningful lyrics. But I greatly prefer classic stuff anyway. The old bands and soloists, the Rolling Stones, the Beatles, Don McLean, Elvis Presley, Jim Crocce, etc., were full of meaning. And then there was James Brown. He's got soul...
     
  11. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry, but rap has changed music for good. It has given a whole new dimension to music as a whole. Rap is great.
     
  12. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I listened to rap for about 2 minutes and thought it was crap. I enjoy R&B, Blues, Jazz, Rock, Country, Easy listening, Classical and New Age to name a few so my listening enjoyment is very well rounded. I just can't enjoy Rap for it drives me crazy listening to , mostly, bad language, bad lyrics, no real beat and nothing that contributes to the betterment of music in general.
     
  13. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    Wow 2 whole minutes. I bet if it was made by whites, you would have been all into it. Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
     
  14. Gerry Registered Senior Member

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    Rap sucks, is not music, and will be discarded very soon.
     
  15. Arquibus Master of Useless Information Registered Senior Member

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    You know what I really hate? People that like rap that think everyone that doesn't is a racist. It seems that the ones that are so obsessed with blaming everyone else are the ones who are really racist. Right Cool Skill?
     
  16. panopticon707 Panopticon Registered Senior Member

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    Everybody: Lower your blood pressure and just ignore Coolskill. Worked for me.
     
  17. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    That's all I need to tell the difference between good and bad music to me. It was a white group , eminem, that I listened to.
     
  18. Gerry Registered Senior Member

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    Send all rappers to New Orleans while its still under water!!!
     
  19. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    rap has changed music for good. It has given a whole new dimension to music as a whole.

    So, how is expressing oneself while rhyming on a beat a whole new dimension and how has that changed music for good?

    Perhaps, by change, you mean that uneducated, talentless bums can be successful on the commercial market?

    Nah, that hasn't changed.
     
  20. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    It has nothing to do with being successful on the commercial market.
    Rap is a new dimension to music as a whole. It's a great new art form that has impacted the face of music period.
    To think that rap is ignorant is simply ignorant.
     
  21. Arquibus Master of Useless Information Registered Senior Member

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    To think that others are ignorant is ignorant. Also, never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. Anyway, it isn't so much that many of us true musically inclined people think that rap is ignorant so much that we think rappers are ignorant and that you are. After all, no evidence to support your arguments, blatanly attacking with no aim towards anyone that displays any like of rock over rap. Wow, making arguments with no evidence, talk about ignorance. But I would certainly not insinuate you are ignorant Cool Skill.
     
  22. Facial Valued Senior Member

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    I still think rap is different from the rest of music. However, from the results of the poll that I posted up somewhere else, I feel that it might actually be a genre of music although it's generally (perhaps essentially) non-tonal in nature. This goes the same for drum solos and the like.

    All genres of music can be very interesting. Insulting an entire genre of music can be quite ignorant, notwithstanding the majority norm that it is safe to say that you can hate or dislike a certain genre under the assumption that the statement does not apply to all of the songs or artists thereof.

    I do like a few rap songs and artists. But when asked whether or not I listen to rap, I usually reply "no" because I find melodic music more appealling, such as progressive trance.

    While it may be true to some extent that a relatively large portion of people who listen to or produce rap may be somewhat uneducated and just plain low, there can also be some meritable rappers or listeners who might not deserve these labels.
     
  23. savior-of-hyrule As a tribute to someone Registered Senior Member

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    Well first of all I just am curious as to how many people here actually live in a poor decrepit demograph? Second of all i would like to point out (as many others have tried and done, however due to opinion everyone seems to over look) that there is shitty music and amazing music anywhere? I cant stand Jay Z rapping "i gto 99 problems but a bitch aint one" to me it is idiotic. It's egotistical and pointless (and teh beat sucks to0). But then in other genres you have songs like Electric six's Im teh Bomb in which a pathetic attempt to incinuate love through teh words "baby when im fucking you its like nothing else matter." However Tupac's Dear Moma touches my heart or keep your head up is a great as well. Train is a favorite band amongst all of my music simply because there music has a soft beat and their lyrics are (to my opinion) amazing. No one can claim one music genre to be the the best because they enjoy it. Besides drum and bass OWns ALL! lol
     

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