Why is that theists rely on god to give them direction? Many here claim that without god, people would be without direction, morally and ethically, and would see the world in utter chaos. I am reminded of a fellow I once met not too long ago who made it no secret he was a die-hard Christian, and that if he did not have Christianity in his life, he would definitely be an ax murderer. Is it the assumption that theists believe in this or do they actually need religion to rule their morals and ethics, to hold in check their potential to be ax murderers? Sorry for the abrupt title.
That statement surprised me as well. France is probably the most secular country in the world and they seem pretty OK. No chaos there. America has rampant religious extremism and things seem a little imbalanced and a little violent compared to most western countries.
If one is inclined to be a axe-murder, it would be good to have a restraining motivation in ones life. But this does not mean that all people that do not have a restraining motivation would be axe-murders. It brings up a good point- That a belief in God or being a Christian has the ability to change ones motivation and actions. It does not make one perfect - clearly. But it helps to establishes a line between what is "good" and "bad" that one can judge ones actions by. "America has rampant religious extremism and things seem a little imbalanced and a little violent compared to most western countries." The explanation might be more to do with a more homogenous society. Conflict is more pronounced due to inequalities, coupled with a self interest to have what your neighbor has. Were is the rampant religious extremism that you speak of? We are one of the most permissive societies in the History of the world. Atheism has given us two political movements in the last 100 years - Nazism and communism. Both were very restrictive and intrusive in peoples personal lives. The fault does not lie with religion but with our own natures.
Extremisim in the form of stupidity. In America people can not grasp basic scientific concepts such as stem cell research, global warming and evolution. 1 in 5 americans still think the sun revolves around the Earth... A concept science left behind in the 17th century. Most people in America still think God created humans on Earth 10,000 years ago. And the final example is how someone like Bush could come into power thanks to the religious right. I think the war in Iraq was had such support in America because the religious ways of the country felt they were good and superiour so it was ok to bomb to evil muslims. Whilst secular countries like the UK (even though our government joined Bush against the wishes of the people) , France and Germany where all opposed. I think secular countries are more stable and less likely to have conflict and start wars. Permissive, hmm dunno. Rascism is in most places but it certainly thrived in America at one point probably thanks to the religious ways of white supremisists. I'd also hate to be a gay person in the bible belt, or a woman with an unwanted pregnancy in the bible belt. I also remember seeing religious extremists in America protesting at a funeral of a gay person who died of AIDS which stuck with me. I don't think you'd see that happen anywhere but america in western society. These may be sweeping generalisations but it's the way I see it.
We all have tinted glasses when looking at the world and others ,we easily see what we want to find about others, even if we need to filter out what we do not want to see or understand. Racism has been justified both by those that have used religion and science, that does not make ether the problem, both have been used to negate racist views too.
"I also remember seeing religious extremists in America protesting at a funeral of a gay person who died of AIDS which stuck with me. I don't think you'd see that happen anywhere but america in western society." No that would never happen in say a place like Germany, surly not in the last 100 years. Or some irrational belife that transgenic corn is going to destroy the food of world or that irradiation of meat is going to cause cancer- like its believed in Europe now and in the USA.
If you are referring to Nazi Germany...Hiter thought that 'God' supported his actions and had quite a lot in common with the Catholic saints, especially those from the "Holy" Crusades: Mass murder, genocide, racism, antisemitism, religious fanaticism... That does not resemble the secular nation it is now. And if you think Science has been used to jusify racism... who was this used by? People with strong religious values I bet. They seem to use science when it suits them (see Intelligent Design) even if it isn't really science.
I'm christian and I definitely don't beleive that you need to go to church, or even have a religion to be moral.
whenI read this my first thoughts were of my brother a devout xian, he is constantly saying "if it was'nt for his fear of god he could shoot someone" the last time I saw him he said it then, I replied "I have no fear of god, and I could'nt shoot anybody", he was more concerned that I had no fear of god, than killing someone, go figure. the biggest danger to humanity, is the religious mind set.
Kenny you have no understanding at all of the religious beliefs of Nazi Germany if you think that it had any thing to do with Christianity. In denied that there was a God but instead made History/evolution into god- it was more or less a pantheistic religion. It was good at using propaganda and the ignorant might be confused by the terminology used. (Just as Mormons are a pseudo-Christian sect because they use the same words as Christians but have different meanings for those words) Its not hard to understand why Naziism and communism develops out of Germany- 100 years before it was already starting down that path with the rejection of God and the Bible and the development of so called textual criticism and the development of a general belief in the survival of the fittest. Kenny- you are showing your bigotry by insisting that ".... if you think Science has been used to jusify racism... who was this used by? People with strong religious values I bet. They seem to use science when it suits them (see Intelligent Design) even if it isn't really science. " I would recommend that you read a book by Stephen Jay Gould called "The Mismeasure of Man"- do not fear it is not "religious propaganda" as you would presuppose, He’s as much an ashiest as you can come by.
The National Socialist Movement has wrought this miracle. If Almighty God granted success to this work, then the Party was His instrument. -Adolf Hitler, in his proclamation to the German People on 1 Jan. 1939 Doesn't sound much like an athiest to me. Much more at: http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm But anyway, I feel this has strayed from the point I was trying to make when observing todays more secular countries to the likes of America. I do love America and go there often and the people are generally great, but it's the broader view I find hard to take. I think it would be a better place by taking a leaf out of Europes book rather than muddling religion with politics.
