Why Blacks?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by J.B, Jun 28, 2005.

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  1. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

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    I know, but why does it take us sooooo long to change? I feel bad for coming down on Mad Max now. Sorry max, but you must change the way you think. So must I, it seems.
     
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  3. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    My nifty term for that is cultural lag.

    Circumstance is a bitch. The consequence is that people are all fucked up in the head. They hate inviduals based on skin color because they learned that the color of someone's skin gives you information regarding their personality.

    It's the classic case of applying the general to the specific or vice-versa.

    Perhaps someone whom you respect as an impresionable youngster plants a premise in your head like "black people are rapists". Based on the amount of impressionability and respect for the invidual (with several other factors I'm sure), you look for evidence to support it in your forthcoming experiences (even if those experiences are simply reflections on prior experiences). If you discern that there is indeed evidence to support the premise, you bite.

    The circumstances that lead to the consequence of racism apparently occur relatively frequenty or at least have in the past. You just need somone who is impressionable and unable or unwilling to reach teh conclusion that racist premises are flawed, introduce the racist meme, simmer for 30 minutes and voila, you've got yourself a racist. Dandy!

    Certainly there is valid logic to destroy the racist premise... as long as you believe there is valid logic to destroy the racist premise. My desire to convert my own perspective to something different must be enabled by a willingness to do so, which is motivated by observations contrary to the premise.

    It's easy however, to make your data fit your observations, as in living as a human - they are naturally one and the same. As long as your premise is active in your perspective on the world, it will skew the data to fit most easily in your mind. To change this takes will. Will requires motivation. What motivates a racist to abandon his premise? Can you motivate all racists similarly?

    I doubt it.

    That's why it takes SO long.

    Christ I'm tired. I hope that made sense.

    OH.. and this:

    Are all conservatives racists?
     
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  5. ReighnStorm The Smoke that Thunders Registered Senior Member

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    Believe it or not, most have found a better life...i.e. (oprah,bob johnson,all black athletes,me (heck, my stepfather's white!),black rappers, preachers (even in the south), surgeons, educators, executives,producers, directors, politics (there should be more of them) I could go on........etc,etc,etc. But the percentage isn't large enough.

    First, what is ye'r?? (talk about bad english)
    Second, I think you do give a shit. You talk an awful lot.....
    Thirdly, not state, you mean whole of the Earth...since that seems to be the case...then where should we go? (really this isn't a case that needs an answer because it's just stupid, but hey you asked it right?)
    Fourthly, and I'll state again for you. Blacks do not care one way or the other what you want us to do.
    You still misunderstand. Blacks don't need money from the government. Blacks need jobs without racism so they can earn their own money. But you guys don't want to hire us even if we're over qualified! And why? Can you tell me that! In the color red, I know that's how you truly feel...which is fine...it's your horrible death waiting in which you so richly deserve....

    No, what you said does not sound smart at all....seeing that you said it and all. I said that they have children to feed, just like everyone else. I never said they couldn't. Your just a sad,sad,sad excuse for a man...oops, I meant r@c!&t pig.

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    quotes by Baron Max
     
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  7. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, that's true. But ask yourselves HOW they got that way? ...by lying around the ghetto taking drugs? ...by resorting to petty robbery? ...by taking the freebies from the government?

    NO!! By working their asses off to make something of themselves ....even in the face of adversity and racism and hatred and fear and ...... YES! Oprah became what she is today by working within the establishment ..YES... the white world. Ditto for the others.

    And ye're right ....the percentage is NOT large! Why not?

    The blacks should take a very close and careful look at the Chinese in this nation. They, too, started out as "almost slaves" in the 1800s ....and look at many/most of them now. Look at the immigrant Indians and Pakistanis ...hell, most of the fuckin' doctors and scientists in this nation are Indian and Pakistani. Look at the Mexicans!

    Life is a bitch. Life is hard fuckin' work ...and if you ain't willin' to work ye're ass off, then you ain't gonna' have nothin' (unless it's handed out by the fuckin' government!).

    Don't bitch, DO something to make something of oneself. And don't let anything, even racism and hatred, stand in your way. Oprah did it, why can't you?

    Then they should keep lookin' 'til they find something! No one has guaranteed a perfect, simple life ...you have to work for it.

    Well, that's easy ...take away all of the rascists' issues!
    If he says "...it's 'cause those damned blacks don't work!" Then they should work!
    If he says "Those damned blacks are nothin' but lazy druggies!" ...take away those drugs from the blacks.
    If he says "It's 'cause those damned blacks are nothin' but fuckin' criminals!" ...make blacks the saints of the ghettos - no crime, no hatred of whites, no robbery, no drugs, .....

    The racist is "motivated" by what he sees around him in the realities of life! If he sees blacks lounging around taking drugs, getting drunk, getting arrested, taking freebies from the government, ........, etc., he has not only the perfect "motivations", but he's actually more correct than the fuckin' doo-gooder liberals!

    Baron Max
     
  8. Sushupti Saver of Babies Registered Senior Member

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    This thread is becoming more and more difficult to read, fast...
     
  9. ReighnStorm The Smoke that Thunders Registered Senior Member

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    510
    Because back between now and 150 years ago it was a systematic design to keep them down. Whites thought that as long as we were killing, drugging, and in the projects that you would be fine.....stupid idea as you can see. Everyone is effected by the ideas of this nation. And their are more whites on drugs than blacks. There are more whites in insane asylums than blacks! There are more wife and family killers than blacks. There are more suicides by whites than blacks.etc..etc...etc.... White and Hispanic people make more money from drugs than blacks. There are even more poor white people than blacks.

    Yes, let's look at the mexicans. Until they played by your rule, they were no better in your eyes than blacks. Not until they bowed down to you(which will never happen with blacks let me ass-ure you!) The Chinese, Pakis, Indies all had to migrate here! Couldn't make it in their own country!

    Life is not a female dog......
    Life isn't hard...work is!
    I like my ass on thankyou and
    Why can't you leave us alone?

    That's exactly the point BM. You see what other people like you want you to see and think. I went to an all (99.9%) black school and university. All rich black people. You never see stuff like that on TV. It's not rare at all.
    We are the Fuc&king government...there's nothing free here.
     
  10. Sushupti Saver of Babies Registered Senior Member

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    Why can't you leave EACH OTHER alone? Both ways... why care what retards [people who, in your mind, are retards...] think or not about you? If one side doesn't want to be integrated into the other, fine. Split. Ignore the other side entirely, or as much as you possibly can. Take care of yourself, and if you like, your own.

    This is not directed at anyone in particular. I think it applied to everyone in this thread, and this world in general. There's a great passage in the Tao Te Ching about this... The last paragraph of chapter 61, in the Stephen Mitchell translation:

    If a nation is centered in the Tao,
    if it nourishes its own people
    and doesn't meddle in the affairs of others,

    it will be a light to all nations in the world.
     
  11. ReighnStorm The Smoke that Thunders Registered Senior Member

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    510
    It's just debating...keeping your mind working.....listening and responding to others ideas....We don't hate each other, just trying to understand each other...If you really think about it....you can't integrate a planet that's already integrated....that's the problem, everyone forgets that we're from Earth...not america, africa, the UK...as I stated before we're from the planet called earth in the milkyway galaxy in the universe.
    That's just it! Black people in America don't mind living with and taking care of other races of people.......that's a one sided argument....we don't care what color (or lack thereof) your skin is....Black people have only wanted harmony for what seems like an eternity!

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    Last edited: Jul 31, 2005
  12. Sushupti Saver of Babies Registered Senior Member

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    Some times a bit of separation is necessary, or a good thing... I don't know, I'm not black or american, so I guess I can't say a lot about the situation up there... I personally plan on takign a one month retreat myself; the world sucks so I leave for a while... maybe that isn't so unhealthy?


    Well, that's over-simplifying... There's Black people, and Black panthers. White people and New-nazis... The point I was trying to make, is that maybe it's better for everyone involved to make some space between things; if integration is really so hard.

    Maybe I'm just having a mood, but it makes sense in my mind, at the moment.

    Either way, Good luck

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    :m:
     
  13. Bells Staff Member

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    Black people can be just as racist as any other group of people on this planet.
     
  14. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, very much so.


    No. Goddamn you Wes. I hate it when you are right.

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  15. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    *wipes brow*

    good deal.

    Upon re-read in a more awake state, I agree with me. Sweet.

    It's a burden.

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  16. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

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    LOFL!! You and Hapsburg crack me up.
     
  17. ReighnStorm The Smoke that Thunders Registered Senior Member

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    510
    We can be, but we're not...Plain and simple, history shows that for the majority. Can you say that for white people (european, french, german, russian, vikings -lol-)etc...etc.. It's just not who we are or ever was. Not speaking for the future though. Look's like things are changing there.

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    Also, as far as the Black Panthers go......need I say more......do unto others I guess.
     
  18. Bells Staff Member

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    I can assure you Reighn, black people can be just as racist as any other group of people that exist on this planet. I have experienced first had the racism from boths sides of this particular argument.. racism from whites and racism from blacks. To deny that some black people are racist is as bad and false as someone like JB saying that he/she is not racist. You may not experience the racism from the black people around you, but I assure you it exists. It not something that occurs solely in the US but in other parts of the world as well where Black people judge others based on their grade of darkness...
     
  19. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    nitpick: The Germans and Vikings are both of the same race, teutonic. But, whatever, doesn't really matter. That's why it's a nitpick.
     
  20. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

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    Reighnstorm,

    I definitely agree with you on a lot of things in this thread, but I now have to take Bells' side on the matter of (some) blacks being racist. In my experience as a white man, I have experienced racism by everyone that is not white that I have come into contact with in my 35 years. I am definitely not saying that all blacks are racist or that any one race is more racist than another, though I'm sure there could be arguments made that whites at least appear to be and maybe are more racist than some others. I hope we can agree to disagree on this matter.

    I think that all races have, to some degree, their own racists. I strongly dislike all racists. I get very heated sometimes about them, as you may have noticed. I guess I can understand them to some degreee, but I think racism is either a conditioned response or a misguided attempt to feel important in a harsh world. I'm sure there are many reasons, actually, but I am also sure that to change your outlook and to break free of adolescent conditioning can be a very difficult thing for most.

    I have a tendency to hate, for many reasons; especially white, conservative racist types. However, this is a form of conditioning that I must attempt to break free of because it will only lead to my own downfall. Not all, or probably even most, white conservatives are racist. This is hard for me to accept for some reason. I think this is true though. But since Wes so aptly asked me, "are all conservatives racist?" I have had to look at this aspect of myself and wonder why I am racist in this regard and why I tend to stereotype when talking about racism. I've known I do this for a while, but it does feel good to me, for some reason, to hate those that I feel are unjust. I hate this hate in me as well. It seems to be very destructive and debilitating for me.

    At this moment some white men that I do not know are outside my front door, in my neighborhood in a small West-Texas town, re-paving, or re-coating as they call it, the street in front of my house. Some of them are probably conservatives, they are definitely white, and some of them are probably racists to some degree, but I just realized that I am thankful that they are out there working to make my and my neighbors' street a nicer street to drive on. To me, that does mean something. That means, to me, that even racists do have redeeming qualities, though I dread saying that. Shit, that is hard to admit, or even to believe, but I think that that is how I should look at it.

    Peace.
     
  21. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Well, thank you for admitting that. Many, if not most people tend to think and/or imply that ALL racists are redneck, backwoods, dirty, uneducated, poor, blue-collar white people who barely merit the term "human".

    But just ain't so. There are highly educated, highly intelligent, wealthy, etc., white people who are also racists. They're usually, however, insulated (or insulate themselves!) from having to deal with those that they don't like or wnat to deal with ...and often that's black people! Sorry, but that's racism, too. ...even if most people don't recognize it or, for that matter, see it.

    Not long ago, in AARP Magazine, they had an article about racism. In it were various studies on the physiological reactions of racists and non-racists. In all of the studies, pictures were shown of various black people and in EVERY case, even in those who CLAIMED that they weren't racist, the reactions were of fear and dislike and distrust. As you can see, from those studies, it's something inside us ...sure, maybe only cultural... but it's in each of us.

    And ya' know what's interesting? In some, tho' not all, blacks that were tested, they, too, showed a slight rise in fear, dislike and distrust when showed pictures of the same black people!! Seems even some blacks don't like/distrust blacks.

    Is it all cultural? No, I don't think so. I think it's much like chickens that ain't never seen a fox .....but throw one in a hen house and all the chickens go ape-shit!

    All animals in nature are segregated by choice. I know of no specie that it willingly integrates with any other specie. Oh, sure there are symbiotic relationships, but it's not the same thing, is it!

    I also know of no human society/nation that is peacefully integrated with several different cultures, do you?

    Baron Max
     
  22. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    But black people and white people are the same species.

    Yes. I live in one.
     
  23. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

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    True. I know, for example, that Strom Thurmond was a racist, as well as that moron friend of his Trent Lott. I don't actually know this for sure, but I strongly suspect it. I also suspect it of many of our other high ranking elected officials, both donkeys and elephants. Libel, who gives a rat's ass. Let them do their worst to me. I don't think I'm long for this life anyway.
    True.

    Again, true. Also anyone that is not white. Especially Arabs and Muslims.

    I think, and hope, that many do see it. It's just not publicized by the media that they control.
    I won't and have never said that there is not fear in me of non-whites. All of them, but perhaps blacks more than others, scare me to some degree, when I am honest with myself. This is only natural though, as it was conditioned in me from an early age by my parents and grand-parents. Also, it would be stupid not to have a fear of just about anyone, white or not. Fear, dislike, and distrust? I fear, dislike and distrust just about anyone that I don't know. Show those same whites a picture of a black man or woman that they know and respect, ask them if they fear, dislike and distrust them. I think the results would be a lot different, if they had ever taken the time to get to know a black man or woman.


    Show whites pictures of some other whites that don't fit their interpretation of what a good white should look like, and I guarantee you that you will get similar results of fear, dislike and distrust. Show an elderly, "respectable" white man a picture of a tattooed, long-haired, bearded 'Hell's Angel' with a scowl on his face and you will get similar results. Any data you want can be contrived if you want it bad enough. I find that elderly white men in my own family are more prone to be racist than younger white men in my family. Hell, one time I even told my grandfather to fuck off because he was not willing to see my point of view. Once I told him to fuck off though, and he realized that I meant it, he changed. My grandfather is a respectable ex-math teacher and home-builder too. Very respectable, in my eyes, except for this major flaw. Now, I don't really blame him for his views because that is how he was conditioned to think as a child. Now, he will at least not tell racist jokes when I am around. Or he at the very least will get me laughing before he does by saying, "Now Kevin, I know you want like this one, but listen anyway." And I do, because I do respect other parts of him, and I will cut him some slack. He does cut me a lot of slack too, with regards to my shortcomings, which I assure you are many.
    Maybe not yet, to your rigorous definition of the term, but I think we are going to be there in another generation or two. All I can do is hope.
     
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