To the casual observer, Christians are Mormons. To Christians who find information on Mormonism beliefs, it is defined as a cult. To the Mormons, they probably are Christians, since the at the surface they believe in the same thing. The to learned theist, Christians and Mormons are not the same.
But to those filled with sectarian bigotry and pettyness it is different? Who exactly defines it as a cult? I mean if Scientology can be considered a religion then there's certainly room for Mormonism - after all it's just another Christianity flavor-of-the-month. Ahh yes but you know better! Those people preying to your same Jesus Christ, and holy trinity are a bunch of deceptive liars! How arrogant of them to think that they are Christians, when people like you have a complete monopoly on the Christian faith! Learned theist? Isn't that kind of an oxymoron?
If the woman you swing with is faithful to you (and not a swinger), then you are the swinger, and she is as well only if she knows and approves. My sin doesn't affect you unless you approve of my sin. That is when my sin becomes your sin. Romans 1: 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. That last verse is the one that condemns those that approve of another's sin. If you did know of a woman's sin, and did her sin with her, then you are approving of her sin and taking pleasure in her sin. So, if you break the covenant of marriage with another woman, you have sinned, and a virgin who does this with you in knowledge of the sin has also sinned. Much worse if you break the convenat of marriage with another woman who you in knowlege of her sin, sin with her. If you do not turn, eventually God will turn his back on you. It says in Romans 1 that the Lord will give you up to your desires. We have free will, so he will let you do what you want. And it says your sin will grow worse and worse. Your mind will be filled with all unclean thoughts. And you will be in bondage of your sin and blinded by the sin because God withdraws from sin. I know from first-hand experience of the bondage of sin. I know of more specifically, sexual sin and how it gets worse. It got so bad that I had thoughts of nasty things that I won't mention here. Thankfully, I asked God to save me from myself and today I am free of my sins!! It came with a price, but I pay it gladly knowing that I am safe!!! It took me 15 years to be free. I couldn't do it on my own, so I knew God would do what he had to and I let him and prayed for it. Christians who struggle with masturbation: seek the truth with a critical mind and pray for deliverance and be willing to take a mark!!! PM me if you need help!!
Haha oh lord, are you for real? I'm starting to think that you're just a troll! Enjoy not masturbating, it's your right to make that choice, but remember that you put yourself at higher risk for prostate cancer because of it!
Just like morality, it depends on your viewpoint. Christians define it as a cult. I define it as nonsense. There was a time when I was open to all religions as believing in the same God in a different way, that religions were different ways to the same end. Then I read up on some of the religions, and their basis and beliefs are illogical and more far-fetched than Christianity is. Even an atheist or agnostic would see that some other religions like Mormonism look like a Alice in Wonderland, compared to Pecos Bill. What are you talking about? Your sarcasm is ill-placed and a lash out against the person you think I am. If you cannot have respect for me, I may as well not talk to you because to you I am the as good as a wall. If you want to debate and argue, then do so with a little respect and demonstrate some maturity on your behalf. My belief is in God and I speak only what scripture says, and what I say is by keeping the scripture in context with other scripture. Besides, common sense will tell you that some religions are more stupid than others. That is, if you care to objectively look at their beliefs. No, how is it? If you pick up a book on a subject and read it and understand it, you are learned of that subject. The ability to learn is not unique to scientists and researchers. I am a Christian, and have picked up a book on Mormonism and I am learned in its beliefs and find controversy vs Christian beliefs that I have learned in another book on Christian beliefs. Do you speak just to have something to say that appears thoughtful?
It's no wonder that 1 in 3 males get prostate cancer, if your statement is true. I am living proof that it is possible to defeat the sin inside of yourself. I am living proof that God has saved me from myself. I only offer to help fellow believers with their problems, that was my problem and I wished someone would have helped me, but I was too embarrased. Masturbation is a high statistic among males, even among the most respected Christians. And I tell you, they battle with it. It consumes them. You are not a Christian, and you may not masturbate, so you wouldn't know the battle a Christian has inside of himself. God saved me from myself, and left a urinary problem as a reminder. One that is not understood by doctors I have seen.
I'm honestly speechless right now. You are so a troll! Out of curiosity - I'm sure you can dredge something up - but can you perhaps give me some biblical reference which indicates that masturbation is evil? Also, I don't masturbate anymore, but for entirely different reasons. Try taking Zoloft (it’s no problem to get, just go do any doctor and say that you’re feeling a bit down, or a bit anxious, and they’ll practically throw it at you – Phizer even sends them little doggy bag trial samples for them to give patients), if you're afraid of masturbating then it's like a godsend! Haha I can't manage to rub one out unless I'm willin' to plan out some sort of strategic arousal plan spanning most of the night.
Where is all this coming from?? How do you define 'marriage'?? Do you have to live with a woman for her to be your wife?
Just to let you know jayleew: if you purport that the bible is entirely consistent (..all sixty-six books), and then scour it's pages for verses which support your claims, you're wasting your time. Even if ( ...with the help of somewhat dubious interpretations) you manage to do so - who cares? Why not just act according to our conscience?
Hey that makes two of us as speechless! What do you mean by troll anyway? Do not presume to know me. You do not know the life I come from. I condemn no man, but myself. I want to help everyone who was a sinner in the worst way like I was. I am still in need to grace, but I seek the will of God instead of the desires of the flesh, just as David. I can tell you my life was a life much like most people's lives. I chose to rebel against what was normal and become an "alien" and I will be persecuted and martyred. Bring it on! I am here to help other Christians find their way out of sin, and also to stand as a testament to the truth. I can give you 4 unique references, they are explicitly repeated several times throughout scripture. There is no biblical reference that spells out masturbation as evil. After all, it is not the action that is sin, but the heart that sins. God only looks at the heart. You can always do the right thing for the wrong reason, and vice versa. God looks at the heart. Christians get their panties in a knot over some of the most trivial matters. When I was under the influence of the chemical that causes the good vibration, I searched far and wide for scripture that either supported my actions, or that didn't exist. Well, I found no scripture, but I found scriptures that are against the heart attitude of masturbation. Now, this was not enough for me to quit. Being blinded by my sin, I was controlled by chemical and turned a blind eye to the scripture. I told myself over and over, "No, the scripture doesn't mean that. It doesn't say anywhere in scripture that masturbation is sin." In my heart, it didn't feel natural, but I loved it. My lust turned into nasty thoughts of sexual actions I will not speak of here. Under the influence, my judgement was jaded by the chemical that I longed to have. Then, I told God to do what he had to do. I asked him if was not his will, then to let me know. Shortly after, God answered my prayer. The day I prayed I knew the only way I would stop. I let God circumcise my body so that my soul could be saved. Today, the scriptures that I discounted, ring true in my heart and the ache I have is a reminder. For the sake of the Christians, I will share the scriptures: Romans 14:23 - And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. This is a good scripture to stay away from things that you are not sure of. Romans 6:13 - Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 1 Corinthians 6:15 - Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 1 Timothy 3:2 - A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Under the natural chemical produced, I assure you that you can become addicted to masturbation. 2 Timothy 2:22 - Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. This one says "youthful lusts." It is talking about youthful lusts as in desires of a "young" Christian. We are to grow up and put away what we used to seek and be sober and vigilant. All of these are continually repeated throughtout the bible, especially in the new testament.
A Christian marriage is the union of the spirit, mind, and body that is recognized, blessed, and centered by God. If you are a Christian, it is the institution created by God to accomplish numerous things. All of which is found throughout the scripture. A Christian marriage is like a church, in a smaller scale. It is about devotion, servanthood, and faithfulness until death. It is a team, it is one body. No, you do not have to live with a woman for her to be your wife. But, to be your wife, she needs to be faithful, and for you to be a husband, you need to be faithful. The Mormons have one thing right, they know what it means to live in a polygamous marriage, where each wife is commited to the husband and the husband to his wives. They happen to live together and are a support group as a unit. There are unwritten rules that the husband does not cross (like orgies for instance). Each marriage is its own marriage. None of them cheat on their spouse and have sex with another man or woman. That is true, scriptural, polygamy. Polygamy does not equal adultery or swinging, as you have described you live. If you want to continue your life as it is, you should marry your second partner. And if you do, she and you, are bound to each other in every way...you are one, just as God has said when he started the marriage business. Then, you will have grounds to say, "I am a Christian and I follow everything the Lord teaches."
Mystech, mormons don't believe in the Trinity, at least not the Trinity recognized by the majority of Christians. Mormons only have the semblance of the Trinity; they believe that multiple gods exist. Furthermore, any definition for Christianity like "everyone who believes in the Bible" doesn't work. Christians existed before the Bible. And so too, there are groups who claim to follow the Bible but really don't. And groups that use a mistranslated Bible.
I'm sorry you see it that way. I challenge you to find inconsistency if you feel it is there. Scripture defines itself. It is the consitency and the Holy Spirit that aids in interpretation. The question here is not Christianity. I am not here to stand for its validitiy. I am here to challenge Getts's justification for calling himself a Christian and not hold all of its teachings. It is a question from a Christian to a Christian. It should be in private, but I would not have non-Christians thinking that one day adultery is okay, and the next, it is not okay. Conscience only serves us so far. Our conscience lies when it really matters. It is influenced. It is warped morals and biased upon our experience. If you think conscience alone will work, then throw out God (as America is doing), and you will be left with a world like the one we are in now. If you like the world the way it is now, then you need to open your eyes and walk down the streets and get a reality check. Open the front pages and read about how there is scandals in the church with Priests and young boys. Read about our corrupt governments. Turn on the news, and most of it is bad. Read about injustice, murder, and more injustice. That is our conscience at work. Conscience fails us when it counts because it is biased and influenced.
Have you ever known, through out all of history of a single civilization governed by Christianity (or any theology for that matter) where this was not the case? The only thing I can think of that comes remotely close is Buddhism. As for your bible passage, I fail to see how a single one of them seems even remotely applicable to masturbation - you've got to stretch pretty hard, or be pretty damned indoctrinated to feel you've found justification in your view through those passages. . . and then again that's even if you are senseless enough to trust the bible as the objective word of God in the first place!
Yes yes, and they also believe that God was once just a man, but by living his life in accordance with Mormon teachings (Don't tell me how that timeline works out) he ascended and became God, and so can every Mormon. It is, however, not these especially ridiculous theological details which make Christianity, however. Should it be said that none but Catholics are Christian because no one else believes in transubstantiation? Should Unitarians be viewed as non-Christians simply because their beliefs are vague and inclusive? Should Westborough Baptist Church in Kansas be considered non-Christian simply because they choose to believe in a hate filled malicious God? You’re all turning to essentially the same material for guidance, you all just have certain differences in versions and interpretation, but it’s all Christianity.
There are many aspects of our world that I don't like actually. What his to do with consensual sex between grown men and women? If anything, this would be more related to the absurd, unhealthy doctrine of sexual asceticm adopted by nominal Christians, and preached by people such as yourself. These men have been deprived of what is natural and healthy, so they resort to these means to satisfy themselves. Yeah ...emmm ...you're losing the plot here jayleew. Now you've definitely lost it. No - this is not our conscience at work! And to suggest otherwise is just groping for any old argument to rescue your thesis. A murderer is obviously not acting according to his conscience; a child-abuser is obviously not acting according to his conscience; a land-grabbing, resource-guzzling capitalist government is obviously not acting according to it's conscience. These things are a result of failure to act according to conscience. What has any of this to do with sex outside of marriage? You will realize - if you re-read what you have written - the answer is absolutely nothing whatsoever! If you examine the issue of non-marital sex, you will find that is entirely different to the examples you have given - in that those affected by the act consent to it (..with the exceptional case of a possible pregnancy of course, but this is as relevant to marital sex as it is to non-marital sex)! This seems, to me, to be largely a concession on your part that you can think of no rational reason to oppose sex outside of marriage. Instead, you make comments like 'Our conscience fails us!' So you would offer - bible at the ready - to enhance our conscience, would you? Well, first of all, tell us how it is deficient! Don't become a pharisee jayleew.
Jay- You challenge that I am not a not a Christian because I do not hold to all the teaching of the Bible. Can you truly stand here and tell me that YOU hold ALL the teaching of the Bible daily? You never sin?? Because for you to challenge that I am a Christian because I fail YOUR test of holding to all the 'rules' if the Bible, I certainly hope you never sin....that you are perfect, as Christ was.....otherwise, you must not be a Christian either.....
Getts, I struggle with sin in my life. I struggle with one of the worst sins: idoltery. The difference between you and I (as far as I can tell from your arguments) is that I know I sin, and I ask God daily to help deliver me from my sin. Whereas, you seem to embrace your sin (or are blinded by it and think your actions are not sinful) and do not turn away. These are the words of Paul, but this is how I feel everyday: 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. These scriptures are the result of Jesus' teachings: 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. 12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. Following Christ is about recognizing our sin and knowing that we stumble after Christ's footsteps. But the point is, we are following Christ and when we stumble, we do not seek to stumble again. Christ's sacrifice will pick you back up, and we follow Christ again. He is the God of second chances. Have the heart of David, but do not sin as his flesh did.
I give up....If you feel I am destined for hell, you are more than welcome to believe that. I have studied long and hard on this, and feel that I am where I need to be.
Well, according to them, he ascended and became a god. No, but the Catholic church must have a definition for Christiian for ecumenical concerns. For example, the Catholic church recognizes the baptism of other Chrisitans, but doesn't recognize the mormon baptism. With the Unitarians each individual unitarian may or may not be a Christian. But those that do not believe in the Trinity, I think most of them, aren't really defined as Christians. Of course, it's a big difference between saying someone isn't, in human terms, a Christian and saying he or she won't be treated by God as a Christian. Well, possibly. Most definitions, I think, require both doctrinal teaching and moral teaching. Mormons pass the moral teaching but not the doctrinal, I think. Well, no. Someone's not a Jew just because they say they believe in the Old Testament. Practically anyone can take a text and use non-standard definitions and interpretations for words. Hence, the definition of the word Christain must be defined by doctrine not by which book.
