Whole World Alert- NASA's Deep Impact : Human race Extinction

Discussion in 'World Events' started by URI, Jun 22, 2005.

  1. URI IMU Registered Senior Member

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    729
    When the first atomic bomb was detonated, it was not know in scientific circles whether the chain reaction started in the atomic bomb would lead to a whole Earth nuclear explosion or ignition of the atmospheric gases, killing all life on Earth.

    This was the first time that life on Earth has been confronted with this type of man made peril.

    The second time might be seen in attempts by scientists to develop nuclear fusion. This task continues, with higher and higher energy densities being achieved on a regular basis.

    The third and most recent serious breach putting life on Earth at risk is unfolding in the heavens above.

    The University of Maryland proposed space mission to penetrate deep into the nucleus of a comet and uncover secrets about the origin of the solar system has won approval by NASA. The $240 million mission -- which was conceived by University of Maryland astronomy professor Michael A'Hearn -- will be the first to study the interior of a comet, which astronomers believe contains material unchanged since the formation of the solar system.

    It has been suggested that one effective technique for deflecting a small comet or asteroid that is on an Earth threatening trajectory would be to run into it with a massive spacecraft at high velocity several years prior to its predicted Earth encounter.

    NASA launched the Deep Impact space probe in January 2004 to meet with the comet Tempel 1.
    see deepimpact.jpl.nasa.gov/science/tempel1-orbitalhist.html

    Deep Impact's penetrator is a 320kg hunk of metal and it will be fired at the comet on July 4 with a relative impact speed of 10.2 km/sec.

    What is a Comet made of?
    It is thought comets are made of dirty water ice. Because water ice and hydrogen peroxide are diamagnetic, cosmic bodies made of these compounds are perturbed by extraneous magnetic fields in unusual ways causing them to change orbits. It is thought that short-periodic comets in our Solar System reside in the Oort Cloud and Kuiper Belt and when pushed out of orbit, they wander the Universe.

    Water is unstable in space, the only stable form of hydrogen and oxygen is HYDROGEN PEROXIDE ice.

    If the comet is made of hydrogen peroxide it may explode under chemical decomposition if it is hit..... and break into many pieces that can and will go ANYWHERE. The forward momentum of Tempel 1 is Earthward.

    A frozen hunk of H2O2 hitting the ground on Earth will explode,... like an atomic bomb, leaving no trace except vitrified matter...



    Comets can hit the Earth. Comets have hit the Earth in the past (The Tunguska explosion of 1908 is a possible candidate for a cometary impact).

    "About the time of the Hale-Bopp comet appearance in 2213 BC, there seems to have been a widespread collapse of ancient civilization, followed by an apparent lengthy dark age.

    Not only did two great ancient civilizations suddenly collapse and enter into chaos for over a century, but there was a serious sudden temporary climate change, which appears to have taken place at the onset of the collapse.

    Humankind has observed the impact of a comet into Earth, and the superstition that comets bring death and destruction is well foundered.

    Off the cuff calculations
    Comet Tempel-1's closest approach to the Earth is on the order of 75 million kilometers. This is at the comet's perihelion.

    Assume that Comet Tempel-1 is a sphere 5km across of dirty ice. Say a density of 1.5g/cm^2.

    That is an approximate mass of 157 X 10^6 metric tons

    The impactor from Deep Impact masses 0.37 metric tons

    Per the Deep Impact website* it will strike the comet at about 10.2 km/second.

    Therefore the impactor delivers 19 Gigajoules (that's 4.8 tons of TNT equivalent)

    If a comet is made of dirty water ice, we all have little to worry about

    HOWEVER

    "We have largely confirmed that the chemical balance ( referring to hydrogen peroxide) of the Mars atmosphere is determined by the products of the photolysis of water vapor, without the need for special or unknown changes to current theory." (www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=13756)

    Hydrogen peroxide has been found in the upper atmosphere and on the surface of Mars, indicating that the chemical environment at the Mars surface is similar to space. Hydrogen peroxide is detected in the upper atmosphere of Earth.

    Hydrogen peroxide is more stable in a cosmic environment than water is and any water left in space will rapidly be converted to hydrogen peroxide by UV radiation.

    The atmosphere of Mars has some oxygen and water vapour in its atmosphere, presumably from the breakdown of hydrogen peroxide by dust particles in the atmosphere.

    Earth witnessed the Shoemaker-Levy 9 comet in 1994 smashing Into Jupiter,.. the comet broke up (exploded) into at least 15 individual fragments on a previous near encounter with Jupiter. The sum mass of the fragments appeared to be of less mass than the mass of the original comet.

    The fragments impacted into the planet with an energy output many magnitudes greater than what was expected. However no water vapor was detected in the plumes thrown up by the impacts of the fragments.

    The biggest fragment (G) was about 2 km diameter and it struck Jupiter with an estimated energy equivalent to 6,000,000 megatons of TNT (about 600 times the estimated arsenal of the world). The fireball from fragment G rose about 3000 km above the Jovian cloud tops and was observed by many observatories (mostly in infrared).

    The diameter of Tempel 1 is about 5 km which is sixteen times bigger in volume than Shoemaker-Levy's biggest fragment.

    There have been many mass extinctions of life forms on Earth in the past. These could have been caused by a comet-hit which ignited the organic matter resulting in a depletion of atmospheric oxygen killing larger animals.

    This could happen again. Deep Impact could be a mistake that could result in the extinction of human life some short time (one year or less) into the future.

    A glancing blow by Deep Impactor's bullet could just set the whole comet or a fragment or fragments on a fatal path to Earth. The comet is just outside Mar's orbit and travelling in the same direction as the Earth.

    Cosmic Chemistry

    In a space environment there is low pressure and radiation. Water vapour in this environment is photolysed by UV radiation into H and OH. (hydrogen and hydroxyl ions)

    Two hydroxyl ions in a suitable environment form H2O2. Indeed irradiating water vapour with UV light is a standard laboratory procedure to prepare hydrogen peroxide.

    Normally, around energy emitting bodies there exists a plasma where all matter is in its atomic state, so hydrogen and oxygen can be represented as H and O ions.

    Hydrogen H and oxygen O ions form stable hydroxyl ions OH, so in the first instance water is not formed. Any water that does exist in space is a breakdown product of hydrogen peroxide.

    Crystalline hydrogen peroxide is transparent to UV radiation while crystalline water is more opaque making solid hydrogen peroxide more stable in a space environment. Water is more stable than hydrogen peroxide to IR (infra red) radiation. Thus when a comet passes near the Sun the intense IR radiation will break the solid hydrogen peroxide on the surface of the nucleus into a water vapour shroud. The liberated water in the comet's tail would quickly be converted back into hydroxyl ions, reforming into solid hydrogen peroxide crystals.

    When Hydrogen Peroxide decomposes it releases water H2O
    and oxygen O2 and a large amount of energy. The energy released is not only impact energy, it is decomposition energy, and over and above that massive energy release, the liberated oxygen would precipitate massive fires that could deplete the level of the Earth's free oxygen killing off all large animals.

    Comets are not dumb meteors. These objects are BOMBS, leaving no trace except vitrified matter. The blast force they produce is from a chemical reaction and not just from impact forces alone.

    A minute chance that human kind could be made extinct is still a chance, and after that there are no more chances.
     
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  3. URI IMU Registered Senior Member

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    Nothing drives a reaction towards a product than removal of the product once it forms from the reactants.

    Now in an Earth environment we have conditions for this reaction, that is H2O <---> H2O2 equilibrium

    High pressure and high Infra Red and low Ultra Violet

    In a space environment we have

    Low pressure, low IR and high UV.

    On Earth water freezes (0C)at a higher temperature than hydrogen peroxide (-11C)
    In space water freezes at a lower temperature than hydrogen peroxide. The formed H2O2 is removed from the reaction.

    IMO these reactions in space never occur because water is never formed in the first place.

    However if it did form the chemical logic above would imply that any Hydrogen peroxide formed by the photolysis of H2O by UV, would recombine as hydrogen peroxide.

    I maybe wrong, and I hope so, however there is a very real possibility that 'Deep Impact' could be a very reckless exercise.

    There is also the evidence... as far as I know direct measurements, for the presence of hydrogen peroxide on the surface of Mars, and in the upper atmosphere of Earth and Mars.

    This can only be explained in chemistry by hydrogen peroxide being more stable than water under cosmic conditions.

    >> Comets are surrounded by a cloud of hydrogen that can be as large as the Sun. This cloud results from the decomposition of water by ultraviolet radiation. >>

    >> This forms a hydrogen molecule, H2, whose dissociation energy is 4.476 eV, the energy of a 27.7 nm far-ultraviolet photon. Since there is radiation of this and smaller wavelengths in space, and collisions are rare, we can expect all the hydrogen there to be atomic. On the Earth's surface, however, protected from ultraviolet and at higher pressures, the diatomic molecule is stable.

    There is a paradox here. Although atomic hydrogen is very active, diatomic hydrogen is not; it is quite inert until the molecule is disrupted. There is so little attraction between molecules that hydrogen melts at -259.20°C (14K) and boils at -252.77°C (20.4K), lower temperatures than for any other substance except helium, which we may expect to be inert. >>

    http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/phys/hydrogen.htm

    Cosmic chemistry
     
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  5. URI IMU Registered Senior Member

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    For readers who are not familiar with Cosmic Chemistry

    All the material matter of the Universe originated in a sun-like body... a star

    Star matter is ejected from the star. In our Solar System this star is our Sun.

    Matter in an atomic form is ejected from our Sun, and it appears as the solar wind.... it streams from the Sun to the outer reaches of the Solar System.

    The composition of the solar wind is ions, hydrogen and oxygen ions, iron, and other light atomic nuclei of various elements.

    The state of these ions near the Sun is atomic , and these ions can be represented as H and O

    Further away from the Sun, OH ions are seen.

    And further away again molecules form such as H2 and maybe O2
    H + H ----> H2 relatively nonreactive
    O + O ---> O2 relatively reactive

    The reactions that can occur in the mid space environment are
    O2 + O -----> O3
    O3 + H2 ------> H2O2 + O
    OH + OH ------> H2O2

    Near the Sun and at mid distances all the oxygen that is sourced from the Sun exists as atomic singlets O or as molecules O2.
    The process starts at the Sun and then follows a series of progressive reactions as the reactants move away.

    So there is a point in the deep cold of space where the vapour density of a product is reduced by condensation... in the case of hydrogen peroxide, it will condense around cold material such as cold moons or rocks, in much the same way as frost grows on suitable cold objects on Earth.

    The key to understanding this chemistry is that it happens irrespective of time, it is perpetual, and the pathways taken always are the same because there is (in general) no outside influences such as human intervention to change the conditions of the reactions.

    Why is there no water (vapour, liquid or ice) in a space environment ?

    Because if a human placed water in space ( an unnatural act in itself) those water molecules are rapidly broken down by solar UV radiation to OH and O ions. Or this can happen via the natural set of reactions in the upper atmosphere of earth and Mars, H2O +O3 ----> H2O2 + O

    In both cases no water is formed, because water can and is broken down, it is not formed, the only product formed is hydrogen peroxide. This molecule is stable in the cold of space.

    So if we remove human influence.

    Water can not perpetually exist in a space environment, and because the source of O is the Sun, water can not be formed at great distances from the Sun. This is because in the cold of space, hydrogen gas is very nonreactive, and the oxygen present is locked into hydrogen peroxide molecules. Hydrogen is in great excess in the space between the Stars.

    All hydrogen peroxide formed at some distance from the Sun is condensed as a solid and it is very unreactive. It can only be made reactive if heat (infra red) is applied, then each affected molecule releases the heat of formation, decomposing other hydrogen peroxide molecules. Impacts supply heat.

    Europa a cold moon of Jupiter is covered in hydrogen peroxide ice, indicating that hydrogen peroxide condensation is active in this region of space. Indeed hydrogen peroxide has been found on the surface of Mars, so condensation is active even at the distance of Mars from the Sun.

    The reaction environment of space has a preferred structure.
    The origin is the Sun..... the outer reaches of space are the condensation zones of stable reaction products..

    Hydrogen peroxide freezes first....(before water) in space.

    The hydrogen peroxide which is frosted around the ultra cold rocks in the Kuiper Belt and in the Oort Cloud, is on occasions broken off and self ejected by the energy liberated., to wander in a new orbit around the central body (the Sun) that they were naturally orbiting.

    Thus comets wander, and are periodic in their occurrence... all the natural events that lead up to their release are going on all the time.

    Thus it can be expected that in cosmic time there will be a number of comets that will eventually fall to Earth.

    The next comet to visit, we must be prepared to repel.

    To cause a sleeping comet to awaken and to become aggressive is reckless in the extreme.

    To expose the whole of Earth to a chance of mass extinctions, is criminal, and must be defined as an act of war.

    source antigrav.omegafour.com
     
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  7. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    I just sure hope that if a fragment of the comet ever does hit earth -- the USA in mind -- that the extraplanetary nuclear blast doesn't get blamed on Al Qaeda to further their agenda, heh.

    - N
     
  8. URI IMU Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    729
    http://vesuvius.jsc.nasa.gov/er/seh/law.html

    International Law

    Following two official General Assembly resolutions and eight years of creative and arduous work, the General Assembly expanded upon the above suggestions by adopting on December 19, 1966 the recommendation of COPUOS for a Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies (9). The Treaty was opened for signature on January 27, 1967. This "Outer Space Treaty" or "Space Charter" has been characterized by some as a Magna Charta for space. Treaty provisions declare that:

    (1) International law and the Charter of the United Nations shall apply to space activities.

    (2) Outer space and celestial bodies are the province of mankind and shall be used only for peaceful purposes and for the benefit of all mankind.

    (3) Nuclear weapons, weapons of mass destruction, military bases, and military maneuvers are banned from space.

    (4) Outer space shall be free for exploration, use, and scientific investigation.

    (5) There can be no claims of sovereignty or territory by nations over locations in space, "by means of use or occupation or by any other means."

    (6) Jurisdiction over space objects launched from Earth shall be retained by the launching state.

    (7) Private interests are recognized as having freedom of action in space, so long as a government or group of governments on Earth authorize and exercise continuing supervision over their activities. Signatory nations (seventy-eight at last count, including the United States and the Soviet Union) are therefore under a duty to oversee the activities of their citizens and commercial ventures in space.

    (08)****** Governments are liable for damage caused on Earth by their space objects.

    (9) Astronauts are "Envoys of Mankind" and are entitled to non-interference and all necessary assistance in distress.

    (10) The natural environments of celestial bodies should not be seriously disrupted, and Earth must not be contaminated by extraterrestrial organisms.

    A process of consensus in COPUOS determined the workings of the Outer Space Treaty (10). Earlier membership and voting disputes were resolved by establishing a large membership and an agreement process among the members. The agreement process required each member to read a statement of understanding on any perceived agreements into the record, both to assess the degree of true consensus and to preserve each government's unique interpretation of any existing consensus.

    Analysis of the debates, resolutions, and ratifying documents accompanying the Outer Space Treaty confirm its quasi-constitutional intent. The treaty was designed to create a set of overriding principles that should govern subsequent multilateral and bilateral agreements. Indeed, four subsequent agreements have elaborated on the principles of the Outer Space Treaty, and each incorporated the Outer Space Treaty by reference. This type of interrelationship among international treaties and agreements is unusual and further documents the guiding function of the Outer Space Treaty. The four subsequent agreements are: (1) the Agreement on the Rescue and Return of Astronauts, and the Return of Objects Launched into Outer Space, opened for signature in 1968 (11); (2) the Convention on International Liability for Damage Caused by Space Objects (Damage Convention), available for ratification in 1972 (12); (3) the Convention on Registration of Objects Launched into Outer Space, opened for signature in 1975 (13); and (4) the Agreement Governing the Activities of States on the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies (Moon Treaty), available for signature in 1980 (14).
     
  9. Communist Hamster Cricetulus griseus leninus Valued Senior Member

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    3,026
    Ah, shut up. The mission poses no threat to anyone. It's just to get a scientific sample.
     
  10. URI IMU Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    729
    >> It's just to get a scientific sample.

    If NASA actually knew what they were dealing out, they would not be collecting a sample in this manner.

    This exercise would have to make the record books, for the ultimate miscalculation.
     
  11. xbxixtxcxhx Registered Member

    Messages:
    4
    now does anyone actually care? ur gonna die ur gonna die not a fuck load you can do about it. get over it dont worry bout it fuckin hapenin go out and live ur life and get off the computer! geeks
     
  12. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,876
    No, it can't. From the website:

    And if you don't believe that, a bit of physics is helpful:

    p = momentum = mv.

    p(comet) = 1e13kg x 10200m/s = 1.02e17kg*m/s

    p(impactor) = 370kg x 10200m/s = 3774000kg*m/s

    So a typical 18-wheeler that weighs 36000kg moving at 26.8m/s (60mph) has momentum of 964800kg*m/s.

    The momentum of an equivalent "truck" impactor is 964800*3774000/1.02e17 = 3.56e-5kg*m/s.

    The mass of the "truck" impactor is m = p/v = 3.56e-5/26.8 = 1.33e-6kg = 1.33e-3g or 1.33milligrams. More like a tiny sand grain.

    This is why we don't let the general population (or you URI) decide these things.
     
  13. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    19,083
    BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *gains breath* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
     
  14. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    54,036
    Yes, it was not known for sure, but this topic was taken into consideration:
    more here (PDF file):
    http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/hep-ph/pdf/0009/0009204.pdf
     
  15. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    19,083
    And now that I've wiped my tears off, let me just say that 6km in diameter is too small to bring destruction to all mankind.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc110299.html
     
  16. Communist Hamster Cricetulus griseus leninus Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, I thought it was absurd as well.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  17. cato less hate, more science Registered Senior Member

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    2,959
    I would not worry about it breaking up either, it will probably just leave a creator. I heard it described as throwing a coin in front of a semi.
     
  18. certified psycho Beware of the Shockie Monkey Registered Senior Member

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    1,943
    We don't need no comet to do the job for us. We can take care of the whole earth gettin wiped out on our own.
     
  19. Odin'Izm Procrastinator Registered Senior Member

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    1,851
    In addition to what avatar said, this comet which is 6km in diamiter will not destroy mankind... if it hits the earth on land it will create a crater similar to the tunguska crater which is about 40km in diamiter, and was hit by a comet who's size is estimated at 5km diamiter of which about 4.9 km vapourised in our atmosphere.

    If it hits in a populated area people will get killed, if it hits an ocean it will probably cause a tsunami, and if it hits an unpopulated area no one will give a shit.

    so really, no point in worrying about it.
     
  20. Communist Hamster Cricetulus griseus leninus Valued Senior Member

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    Hmm...If it hits the Sahara will it make a huge lump of glass?
     
  21. Odin'Izm Procrastinator Registered Senior Member

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    what happened in siberia in 1908 was the water totally vapourised and hit the earth in the form of a cloud of super hot gas. the gas folded down the trees in about a 25-30 mile radius and chared the earth to the point that still nothing grows there.

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    not so sure about glass though probably not, just a big crater.
     
  22. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    10,876
    Ah. I see no one is really interested in actual facts in this particular forum.
     
  23. URI IMU Registered Senior Member

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    729
    >> Hmm...If it hits the Sahara will it make a huge lump of glass?


    There are huge areas in the desert regions around the Sahara where the sand has been turned to glass... broken shards of glass like material everywhere.

    >>> An asteroid 5-6km in diameter

    This is the illusion, comets are NOT asteroids, they don't just squash, they explode THREE TIMES,
    once for impact
    twice for decomposition energy liberation
    three times from oxygen liberation

    H2O2 =----> H2O + O + 45 Kcals/mole

    BaaaaBaaaaaBaaaaazoooooooooommmm





    IMU
     

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