Here's something we don't get to talk about often in sciforums: down to earth social issues. Of course having the standard religion and politics threads -which are far from fading away anythime soon- is all fun and good... eventhough I wonder how many times I can stand re-reading threads with the title: "Palestinian\Isreal conflict" or "Republicans vs Democrats" and speak of something new. Firstly, what does the average american think of Wal-mart? Is it a blood sucking, monoply machine or just a company like any other? Secondly, Québec has been in the news a couple of months ago concerning the successful union drive in Jonquière.. which Wal-mart then closed claiming it could no longer make a profit. Is this bull or did Wal-mart did the right thing? Finally, many people boycott Wal-mart. Do you? Do you feel consumers get the last word by chosing where they make purchases? Curious to get the american pulse on this one, Prisme
I'm on a local sub-committee of our towns Planning Commission. We've been researching the economic and other effects of big box stores on towns -- in LOTS of detail. I have a rediculously thick binder of studies now. And of course Walmart as the biggest of them all, studies profoundly in most of the studies. We are also trying to do lots of research on community/citizen opinions about the various issues. One striking thing, pretty much everybody who has a strong opinion one way or the other about Walmart type of stores has never read a SINGLE study. Which is fine, but its a classic example of faith based opinion. Because once you start reading the economic data you realize that one of the reasons Wallyworlds prices are cheap? WE subsidize them with our taxes. Yes many other businesses get tax aid, but few outside of the agricultural and energy sectors get the same amount of free ride as Walmart does. And they are the biggest company on the planet now! In fact they are the 21st biggest economy on the planet, just behind Taiwan and ahead of Austria. Here is an article that does pretty good comparisons of just how big they are and how they are still growing: http://www.sgma.com/sportsedge/articles/2005/3/article1111682357-30841.shtml
With the original questions in mind, what should people think of Wal-mart? Do people who love it care or know about the side effects?
Diplomatically he says: >> With the original questions in mind, what should people think of Wal-mart? << With the original question in mind . . . Walmart is less a cause than a symptom of the decline of America as a future world leader. >>Do people who love it care or know about the side effects?<< The evidence seems to show no and no.
Walmart became the blood sucking monopoly machine when old Sam Walton died and new management took over.
I agree with justiceusa. Not that being a blood-sucking monopoly is a bad thing. Especially if you work for them... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Hehe nice one. For me, I shop at Wal Mart every-so-often, but I don't really pay attention to it. Wal Mart gets no more business from me than any other store in my area. The problem is "presently two-thirds of Wal-Mart Supercenters are located in just 15 Southern states." It doesn't say which states these are (I'm sure they can be easily googled, but I can't be bothered, because I'm lazy), but many southern states aren't densely populated, and with this thin population, these states aren't generally a major target for big business. That's where Wal-Mart seems to differ. We all constantly hear about small towns potentially getting Wal-Mart Supercenters, and no matter how much the citizens complain, the majority of the time Wal-Mart wins. Now (assuming the citizens of given town don't boycott) Wal-Mart is the only source for the essentials, and ends up being the only available place to shop for many people. This means with little effort a Wal-Mart has monopolized the area, and any competing businesses are put out to dry (WM does have some mighty deep pockets, afterall). With no other choices, there are no options for the consumer: Shop at Wal-Mart or don't shop at all; either way WM wins. Still though, I don't see much of a big deal, we've got plenty of choices in my city about where to buy our underwear Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
How long do think there will be before Walmart and Meijers are at each others throats, literally? That'd be weird, though: corporate warfare...literally. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I grew up, like most Americans, not thinking that much about where I shop - just caring about price, location and selection. Then a few years ago I started realizing that Walmart was treating their workers crappy, hurting America in many ways, selling sub-par products, and more . . . but like most Americans STILL kept shopping there. Then I read an article a couple of years ago that summerized their local & international workers issues, confirmed that when you think its the ''same'' product for ''less'' at Walmart - its often not actually, and more . . . I finally just stopped going. Now, everytime I drive by a Walmart I feel so *clean*!
Ignorance is bliss sometimes. And not caring anything about consequences of actions to others (or yourself longterm) must be a bit relaxing too! I'm somewhat jealous, having a concious is a pain in the ass when it comes to immediate selfish personal satisfaction!
I'd like to believe that, but the "new management" stayed in the family (sons and daughter) and wikipedia reports that: "Founder Sam Walton once argued that his company should be exempt from the minimum wage." (Palast, 121) (see title: Treatement of employees). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal_Mart#Criticism I know he was also very anti-union... let's just say I think today's management was partly inspired by Walton's view of the world. Low prices at any price.
Well gravity, I know what you mean. I also boycott Wal-mart.. I think I'm at my 2nd year. We used to go every week and me and my partner decided we should stop complaining about how Wal-mart does bad things and just stop going. In addition, we could easily get everything we bought in other stores. This said, your comment about having a conscience reminds me of the classic book "The Grapes of wrath". It is the story of two families that pick fruit in California fileds and are continually oppressed by others (boss, other workers, other civilians). Their lifes are filled with fear and bad events. However, at the end of the novel, they perform a selfless act, despite being constantly degraded by others who lack humanity for many years. This done, the novel explains that as long as fear can be transformed into wrath (being revolted) we have not yet lost our humanity. If the protagonists would have lost their humanity, they would not have performed the selfless act, for injustice would no longer invoke wrath in them after being treated so many times injustly. However, the protagonists prove by helping a stranger that they still have wrath in them when confronted with injustice, and thus they have not been broken by their oppressors. I think the capability of expericencing wrath (revolt in front of injustice) is something innate to a social conscience. And eventhough it may seem like a burden at times, it is much better to have its presence and know that the world hasn't managed to break you into accepting injustice. Prisme P.S. When Paris Hilton needed a mirror in "The simple life" she suggested to nicole to go buy it at Wal-mart... got wrath?
WM gives the lowest prices (lower than K Mart, Shop Rite), so i would say i enjoy buying stuff from there.
Whether or not Walmart did the "right" thing is irrelevant. Walmart had the right to close its store (for whatever reason) just as the employees had the right to form a union. For those who boycote Walmart, Do you boycote Mcdonalds, and every other Capitalist corporation?
As a business, we may not be able to talk about what is right or wrong, but as private citizens (which I hope we all are here), we can discuss of the value of the actions of business' are argue whether certain behaviours are more acceptable than others, socially. Legally, the subject is irrelevant at first glance.. but ethicaly speaking, why would a corporation close down a profitable store just because its employees decided to exercice their right to get unionized? In other words, the exercice of Wal-Marts right to close down a shop was used contrarely to logic (since it was profitable) and only in reaction to the exercice of workers rights to organize. Now if the only reason you close down a store is to avoid unions, thats illegal in Canada... and pretty much immoral anywhere else. The law always pre-supposes that the parties are reasonnable. In this case, Wal-mart is not reasonnable: it adheres to a strict non-union policy at any costs, despite the human factors. In order to preserve their non-union status, they crush any and all attempts to unionize in north america in fear that other stores would then follow. This hatred of unions is only based on the fact that Wal-mart would be obliged to conceide a small piece of its gargantuan profits to its workers (seen as additionnal costs.. the enemy of corporations). Now is it normal for the most powerfull corporation in the world to systematically crush workers rights in order to save 1-2% of its profits? Does the costs equal or exede the benefits? Would the average joe be better off in such a society? The irony of all this is that Wal-mart accepted to unionize all of its stores in China (note: the union in China is affiliated with the government, so its really not an independant labour union like we have). Of course, the only reason why Wal-mart accepted was that the alternative was to be kicked out of the fasted growing economy in the world (China). As the AFL-CIO (U.S. union) president said: "How will I explain to my members that its only in communist China that workers can get unionized with Wal-mart?" I boycott Wal-mart and try not to go to Mcdonalds since the stuff will kill you before your time. But I do go to other corporations, I just try to go to the lesser evil. I am not against corporations, only corporation policies. Unfortunately, the only way I can get corporations to care about what I think\say is by spending my money elsewhere. Prisme
Speaking of China, It seems to me that Walmart has evolved into a global conglomerate of Chinese factory outlet stores. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! http://www.ufcw.org/press_room/fact_sheets_and_backgrounder/walmart/sweat_shops.cfm
Well, the great success of the company tells that story quite well, don't you think? Or do you think poeple hate the damned place, but shop there anyway? And the fact that Wal-Mart is building new stores all over the damned place, my best guess is that Americans (as less as others!) love the place. How can you see it any other way? Baron Max
Well, was it not reported last Christmas that Wal-mart either did not reach its planned sales or actually lost 1% of its profits? In any case, we can easily seperate financial success from ethical success. Drug lords make billions each year... but does the average american think they are as ethical as any other business? Furthermore, do people shop at Wal-mart because Wal-mart is ethical or is it just to save a buck or plain ignorance? In other words, do people believe its good to shop at Wal-mart or just economical? These more intricate subjects are what this thread aims to discuss. =========== Things to talk about from justiceusa's article: Things that Wal-mart apply in their secret store policy: * Forced overtime * Locked bathrooms * Starvation wages * Pregnancy tests * Denial of access to health care * Workers fired and blacklisted if they try to defend their rights Does shopping at Wal-mart necessarily mean wou approve of such practices? Or do you shop only with the intended message: "you guys have the best prices". Would shopping somewhere else make a difference? Prisme
