Patriotism

Bigots and zealots are still here and will never go away. The best anyoe can do is to just try to look ahead towards a better future with your help making it that way. To have those that hate others affect you shows that you need to overcome your own hate towadrs them as well as those that have hurt your ethnic type in the past. I'm not trying to say forget them just don't let their problems become yours.

 

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What's your problem?

It was a typo do you never make typos?

I'm not sure what part of the worl you are from also bt rascism runs rampant worldwide perhaps not to the level it once did but it's deffinately still there.

 

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Certainly racism is still wide-spread: it's also rather more complicated. Probaly the most extreme acts of racism in recent years were in Rwanda and Yugoslavia. Both took place between people who belonged- to an outsider's eye- to the same races.
"The past is a foreign country. They do things differently there." Every country made slaves of other people. It was perfectly normal acceptable behaviour until very recently. You are probably descended from slave-sellers as well as slaves, Richard; it was just a matter of luck which someone was and people could often enough be both at one time or other.
Finally, you are so concerned about your ancestors. It'd take rather a lot of time to be properly concerned about them. You have several thousand million ancestors to be concerned about. Not that it'd do any good do you or them. In the meantime, you've got your own life to live. If your ancestors' history is as important to you as it seems to be you'd be better advised to see a therapist of some kind for advice on how to get past it and get on with your own life. You'd be much better advised to bother about your descendants.

 

see a THERAPIST???!!!!...hah. shit. that's whitey's answer for everything that exposes its OWN bullshite behaviour isn't it? Blame the victim of it! WhatEVER you do dont question YOUR behaviour, oh no. deport said 'complainers' etc., to their very own 'priest' psycho-the-rapist

Do you know what has and is happening to black people at the hands of that cult (which of course includes the psychiatric establishment)? black people are more percentage-wise going to be 'diagnosed' 'mentally ill'. Convenient huh??

 

How is Richard a victim?
His ancestors- as I pointed out- were probably both victims and perpetrators, but Richard himself lives in a wealthy, fairly peaceful country, studies at university, has plenty of leisure to indulge in self-pity and hatred- in short he's probably a lot better off than if he were an African.
What is "convenient" about black people being diagnosed mentally ill? It's a very expensive procedure treating mentally ill people. Certainly racism doesn't help, but responses to racism don't help either. Contempt is a sensible reaction. Given that mental illness is self-perpetuating and self-reinforcing, if many black people have attitudes like you and Richard thatt probably explains some of it.
Talking of therapy and mental illness, Duendy, your really rather eclectic taste for arBitRAry uSe of CapitAl letters does seem significant. What precisely do you suppose it signifies about your relation with things?

 

Thersites, This is for you:
It took me a long time to understand how being black must be in America. I mean, there cannot be many days in the life of a black person that she or he doesn't feel the sting of some racist confrontation. Looking at the problem from an arm length distance, after blacks were "freed" at the end of the Civil War, how many were recruited to come to the north, to engage in honest and voluntary employment? How many schools opened their educational arms to the black millions of repressed people? How many whiteys, even the abolitionists, took the black man by the hand and led him and her into the propsperity of white existence? Which wasn't all that hot to begin with. How many blacks found it necessary to defend themsleves and their families from marauding southern klanners? and just common ordinary rascist pigs? When did the murder of a black person ever get resloved with a process of equal justice and equal protection of the law? Shit, a southern sherriff was just as apt to lynch a black person as the hooded mob who hoisted him by the rope tied around his neck.

Thersites, you just don't get it. Homicide and police contact in the black community, which is anyplace a black person is located is not a peaceful place. How many blacks are driven to the Atticas in the country for smoking dope, or selling it? How many lives are thrashed by the laws in this country that criminalize honest constituionally protected activity? Sure, whitey goes to jal too, but poor blacky is over represented in the prisons relative to the white kid whose daddy has some serious green tio pass around the white judges, mostly, who are more apt to send the black man to prison for misconduct than the white child who just was unfortunate enough to hang around with the wriong crowd. Ask the Iraqi man in the street, or any Muslim in the world what he or ashe thinkis of America's sense of peace and freedom. Guess, Thresites, just guess who is the most hated and despised people on the face of the erth today. It is the American citizen, one hand on the bible, the other on the trigger of his M16 assault rifle. Get used to your politicians dragging your beautuiful country through the muck and mire of sheer hatred, bitterness and bloody war. Take your stuipid post and shove it up your fuckling ass you prick.


From the instance of "freedom" the black has been expected to be as culturally integrated as the white society, yet at every turn there are obstacles that whitey doen'st have to overcome, after all he is whitey, the one with the keys to the golden calf or whatever the bullshit promisies are. Blacks have been separated by the forces of society, the forces of violence, the forces of law and order, the forces of overt and blatant racism , stupidity, liberal-do-goodness-at- heart, and all the rest.
Take a close look at what the black has to endure even today, like the leading cause of death in young black males is homicide. Could you get through a year of life subject to what the average black goes through? I get shoved aside and exluded because I am ugly and look at women's breasts when I am speaking to them, but at least I have the opportunity to engage in the conversation until I am discovered staring at the breasts. The black person is excluded even if he doesn't look at women's breast when he talks to them because the mere fact of his skin color is an instinctive warning to whitey to, "Uh oh, this mother-fuck'n nigger comin threw the do beddar not try an bud-fug my liddel sister."

Occasionally, I appear at my city couincil meetings where a person can speak talk for three minutes before the meeting gets going. There is always a prayer and a pledge of allegience which are the first events of the council meeting. I never stand up and I never bow my head. After a few of these meetings, I mentioned at one time that the last time I pledged allegience to the flag I meant it as deeply then as I do now and I do not find it necessary to integrate that personal sense of my "country" into a life style with repetitive echoes of rote obedience to 'expected and demanded ceremony'. Also, I mentioned that I had some serious religious objections to letting complete strangers lead me in conversatuion with my creator. She would be laughing her head off if she ever caught me doing that. And while we are on the subject, what is the latest all inclusive definition of, "white collar crime"?

Geistkiesel​

 

Geistkiesel:
Richard doesn't live in the USA. He lives in England. As it happens, I am black- or, rather, what used to be called Cape Coloured- so I know something of it. There are problems with racism, but Richard's concern was with what happened to his ancestors, not any current problems he may have. This seems a rather odd priority to me. Presumably he intends to live in England and in that case his concerns should be with his descendants and the future they will have. Study history, write about history, teach others. It is worth reminding people that the entire human race can be bloody and murderous when it suits them, that there is a continuum of prejudice all round the world, but- above all- remember that that was then and this is now.

 

I'm not sure what part of the worl you are from also bt rascism runs rampant worldwide perhaps not to the level it once did but it's deffinately still there.[/QUOTE]
Yes, rascism is in every part of the world as it will probably always be at least until humanity grows up. Which is exactly what you need to do. You come on this board whining about things that never, ever happened to you. I've known people like you. You whine about things being so harsh and cruel. Wake up, the world is cruel. When you walk around with a chip on your shoulder you attract attention to yourself and somebody is going to say something. Get over it and get a life as you seriously need one.

 

Hmm, let's cite Badger Clark and his poem the Westerner(not that a poem has reference to the real world, but it is a decent philosophy to follow).
This is an excerpt from the first stanza...

My fathers sleep on the sunrise plains,
And each one sleeps alone...(skipped two lines)
I lay proud claim to their blood and name
But I lean on no dead kin.
My name is mine for the praise or scorn
The world began when I was born,
And the world is mine to win.

I like it, I think it holds true to a decent philosophy. If you don't ignore it and continue on.

 

Nice peom, Herr Galt. It is very well said.

 

That's poem, I apologize for incorrect spelling as my finger hit the keys in the wrong order.

 

I have just one question by the way. What does one's race have to do with patriotism?

 

No idea. Apparently something, its causing this guy all sorts of problems.

 

I like to think people get to talk shit about their country after they can properly use their language, not before.

It's been pointed out earlier in the thread that western countries and The White Man(tm) in general have been responsible for much less slave trading and black deaths than the islamic world and black people themselves. Besides, the very fact that you are a black person and can also call yourself a British subject means that British mentality toward race has evolved by quite a stretch since Queen Victoria's reign. Also, unlike what some of the Thatcher haters like to portray, the United Kingdom is in fact a developed country, where you have things such as mass transit, the Internet and, uh, running drinkable water, privileges which you would be much less likely to enjoy if you did not live under the flag which you're so eager to insult over the 'web.

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On the subject of patriotism in general, I would like to point out the fact that none of us would be who they are, if not for the land we were born in, or at least the blood which runs through our veins, which is not of our doing, but the consequence of a history which precedes us and shapes us. Whether we like it or not, without exception, we have inherited moral values and behavioral traits from our country(ies) of origin. The concept of Motherland is thus a very real one, almost literally so, although its definition varies from motherland to motherland.

Which brings up the next point: difference. Just like people, nations have, through their (sometimes violent) confrontation with the other nations, shaped their own identity. To be of one nation means standing for something, for a set of values, for a way of life. Nations are unique entities, just like people are unique entities who are shaped in part by their nations, just like nations are shaped by their people. When I say that we owe something to our nations, I don't mean that we have some sort of moral debt toward them we need to honor, because that only goes so far. What I mean is that a part of us comes from our nation, and that before we go denying attachment to it, we should recognize how much of us is from it.

Every country is, and stands for something not quite like any other country in the world. Fantastic things like modernity, cosmopolitanism have had the effect, by mixing all nations together, to dilute them. We have grown away from our solid link with our unique land, blood, history, culture. Anyone from an oppressed nation knows this very well, but here in cushy nations we have grown tepid.

However, to speak in aristotelian terms, man is the only animal which is cultural by nature. This means that we can only realize ourselves through the community to which we belong. Of course, communities have also an overbearing, holistic fact: this is the paradox of being human, we want to be independent but can't live outside of the pack. But this doesn't mean that the pack didn't do something for us. It doesn't mean that any pack is worth any other pack.

Intellectuals like the people this site caters to think lands are kind of dumb, what with all the mud, and the other patriots who are such idiots. Ideas have the gnostic pleasure of being only accessible to a handful of initiates who are, like, totally above that nation stuff, which is just for hoi polloi. The problem with ideas is that when you put faith in them, they become ideologies, which breed totalitarianism. All of the horrors of the 20th century were done by people who believed in ideas, not in other people. People were sent off to concentration camps for the ideas of racism or communism, not for Germany or Russia; Nations can do some pretty ugly things, but they don't ask people to surrender their personalities.

I like being a patriot. You can touch a country, you can smell it. You can talk to its people. It is there, flourishing from the blood of the ancestors that has been shed for you. It's just the right size; big enough to realize yourself in it, not big enough to lose yourself in it. I have spent way too much time hearing emphatic comments about my country from foreigners, to whom it is a beacon of light, and hearing jaded comments from people who share my citizenship and don't recognize the priviledge that it is, not to want to believe in a country which is worth so much to people who already have their own country. My country stands for something that I also want to stand for. It outlived the ideologies which ruled the planet like dinosaurs. It will outlive me, and hopefully it will be even better to my children than it has been to me.

Nations are worthy of our allegiance.

 

I'm sorry BM, I usually agree with you. But on this you do know that Indians owned black slaves in America also.

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wait, you're in KY?

 

It's not quite correct to apply the standarts of nowadays to the past.
For example, in ancient Rome owning slaves and slavery in general was accepted and wasn't morally questioned.
You apply the current moral standarts to our current world, not for the future, not for the past.
Besides, morals don't matter anyways, those are just shields behind which hide the weak.

 

The indians kept white, black, brown and other indians as slaves. So what's that got to do with the black cavalrymen who helped to kill my ancestors? ...and that, according to the original post, I have good reason to hate all black people's descendants all down thru history forever and ever!

Baron Max

 

My country stands for something that I also want to stand for.

What is it that your country stands for?