The Universe Is All That Exists

all matter and energy is the universe. this consititutes existence.

"Is there any need for a first cause?

by Nathaniel Branden:

Question: Since everything in the universe requires a cause, must not the universe itself have a cause, which is god?
Answer: There are two basic fallacies in this argument. The first is the assumption that, if the universe required a causal explanation, the positing of a "god" would provide it. To posit god as the creator of the universe is only to push the problem back one step farther: Who then created god? Was there a still earlier god who created the god in question? We are thus led to an infinite regress - the very dilemma that the positing of a "god" was intended to solve. But if it is argued that no one created god, that god does not require a cause, that god has existed eternally - then on what grounds is it denied that the universe has existed eternally?
It is true that there cannot be an infinite series of antecedent causes. But recognition of this fact should lead one to reappraise the validity of the initial question, not to attempt to answer it by stepping outside the universe into some gratuitously invented supernatural dimension.
This leads to the second and more fundamental fallacy in this argument: the assumption that the universe as a whole requires a causal explanation. It does not. The universe is the total of which exists. Within the universe, the emergence of new entities can be explained in terms of the actions of entities that already exist: The cause of a tree is the seed of the parent tree; the cause of a machine is the purposeful reshaping of matter by men. All actions presuppose the existence of entities - and all emergences of new entities presuppose the existence of entities that caused their emergence. All causality presupposes the existence of something that acts as a cause. To demand a cause for all of existence is to demand a contradiction: if the cause exists, it is part of the existence; if it does not exist, it cannot be a cause. Nothing does not exist. causality presupposes existence, existence does not presuppose causality . There can be no cause "outside" of existence or "anterior" to it. The forms of existence may change and evolve, but the fact of existence is the irreducible primary at the base of all casual chains. Existence -not "god" - is the First Cause.
Just as the concept of a causality applies to events and entities within the universe, but no to the universe as a whole - so the concept of time applies to events and entities within the universe, but no to the universe as a whole. The universe did not "begin" - it did not, at some point in time, "spring into being." Time is a measurement of motion. Motion presupposes entities that move. If nothing existed, there could be no time. Time is "in" the universe; the universe is not "in" time.
The man who asks: "Where did existence come from?" or "What caused it?" is the man who has never grasped that existence exists. This is the mentality of a savage or mystic who regards existence as some sort of incomprehensible miracle - and seeks to "explain" it by reference to nonexistence.
Existence is all that exists, the nonexistent does not exist; there is nothing for existence to have come out of - and nothing means nothing. If you are tempted to ask: "What's outside the universe?" - recognize that you are asking; "What's outside of existence?" and that the idea of "something outside of existence" is a contradiction in terms; nothing is outside of existence, and "nothing" is not just another kind of "something" - it is nothing. Existence exists; you cannot go outside it; you cannot get under it, on top of it, or behind it. Existence exists - and only existence exists: There is nowhere else to go."

any comments?

 

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So, God is a wrong concept!
If what you say is true, it proves Buddhism is true,
Buddha said there is no first cause, no God.

 

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"If you are your experiences, then punishments or rewards are dreams"-J. Chatha

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopi...4&t=7874&sid=1d943d523a50acdce16b598ce8a99052

 

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First lets realize that religion is the pursuit of something, usually affiliated with happiness or enlightenment. Everybody has dreams, and according to Aristotle it is man's nature to dream. Religion is supposed to satisfy this void, its doctrines don't even have to be true, they are meant to be personal. However politicians and beaurucrats from the time of Babylon took the idea and molded it into false hysteria, institutionalize it, and created a belief out of it. As it is its no more a safe haven for us to reach or find ourselves but a series of social ceremony. Tell me is any priest going to help you when you do eventually confront God? I think you know the answer. You and I came in to life alone, we must go thropugh it alone, and carry on over the same way. I particularly feel peculiar when those so called appointed holy leaders tell people what's what. Furthermore, the latin word for religion is "to relate", meaning to find meaning or association. Notice nobody promises that anything is true.Hence, the bible need not be true, its altimately you who decides what's true and what's not. Some relate more to reality and some dream of a better afterlife. There is nothing wrong with customization when it comes to religion, most of it is up to you. The greatest gift you can give a man is freedom. You should have the freedom to decide what afterlife you are going to face.This is the inexhaustible freedom I hope is bestowed on us. I personally would just like to die and forget about everything, I don't want another set of obligations or paradise, and I certain I don't want another reality, I would just like to join the stars. If there is a God I pray he grants me this.

"In every age and time, the priest is hostile to freedom" Thomas jefferson

 

ah men brother! I would not want to live forever, what the hell (excuse the pun) would I do that whole time? I would like to just end it. or maybe take a quick tour around the universe then end it. perhaps I should start a religion based around this. I could call it "stoic agnosticism" or something.

 

sure people can dream whatever the hell they want. they can have fantasies and practice strange religions, as long as it doesnt adversely effect other peoples lives. I wish people would be more realistic and realize the supernatural doesnt exist in reality, only as a thought in your head.

 

Hi, alteredperception..

That's pretty funny....first you state that you know the nature of reality...

then you say you know what our thoughts are....altered perception indeed !

Maybe your chicken/egg universe conundrum turned you into a psychic !

Peace

 

Wow Ganesh! I bet you think you sound pretty smart, mr. sarcastic prick. I never said I know the "nature of reality." I only quoted someone who explained why existence is all the exists (sounds obvious, well most humans are confused about this). I never said I knew what "reality" is. I never claimed to know what a thought is either. I was using the word to refer to how people do this thing with their brain where they come up with ideas.

If your going to post an insult, at least try to make sense.

 

WHAT UNIVERSE?[/SIZE]

SINCE the word alone connotes to many meanings. uni (one) verse (word/truth/man)

 

Universe=all matter and energy=existence. are you blind? and whats with your post, its a jumbled incoherent mess

 

why is it true that there cannot be an infinite number of antecedent causes if the universe has always existed then causes have always existed. why do you say an eternal universe can exist but infinite causes cannot?

The man who asks: "Where did god come from?" or "What caused god?" is the man who has never grasped that god is the existence that exists. This is the mentality of a scientist or materialist who regards existence of god as some sort of incomprehensible miracle - and seeks to "explain" it by reference to physical existence.

thats infinite regress isnt it?

a question, does anything exist 'outside' or 'anterior' to your perception of existence?

 

Hi alteredperception,

Sorry about the insult, I'm not off to a good start with my first post.....
We should all play nicely in this sandbox....

People talk about 'thought' as if it's something seperate from reality...

but everything we think of as good 'ol solid reality has to go through the thought process first...right ?

People who have never experienced the supernatural are 'naturally' going to rationalise it as somebody else's 'thought'

In the same way, somebody who had never experienced love could put up a pretty good argument denying it's existence

None of us have the copyright on 'God, the Universe and Everything', but it's good to be able to put forward our 'thoughts'

My take on the 'big picture' may be different to others, but I like to put forward my 'wacky' theories as food for 'thought'.
Forgive me if I seem arrogant in my assumptions, but it's only based on my personal experiences and knowledge.
The role of religion in the affairs of this realm has been getting on my goat, and it's getting ridiculous....
religious groups arguing over various ancient scribblings, much of which was based on old hearsay evidence.

I'm not saying there's no truth in the Bible, but it's been fiddled with since day one to fit the agendas of the PTB...
important books, like Enoch..totally dismissed...and if you look carefully, you find even certain teachings of Jesus were omitted.
Hardly the word of God...

Just study the actual utterances and deeds of Jesus and forget about what all these other clowns said about it.
And consider this quote " Who sinned, Master, this man or his parents, that he was born blind ?"

Yes, that's right, Jesus taught about reincarnation...all references conveniently edited out
at the Conference of Nicea (they missed a few..heh)

If you spend the time scouring all the available info on the net, you can work out the big picture for yourself.....
all the Gods of the Earth's religions are extraterrestrial beings...to people in ancient times they WERE Gods

Just because Jesus had a personal relationship with one of them doesn't mean there aren't others...
his God may have been in charge of this realm but that's a small part of the big picture...

This has nothing to do with the ULTIMATE Creator..

The Ultimate Creative Force is everywhere...the force of it is in every particle in the universe...
it is the ever expanding, creative, living energy that powers the universe..it created all the souls in
the universe because that is its function..creation. Even the extraterrestrial races who helped genetically
engineer this experiment, don't know the ultimate creator...there's no personality involved here that
we need to worship...it just IS...and we're part of it...the ultimate creator could care less about good and evil...
that's just part of our game in this realm...

We're no different to these 'Gods' or ET's on the soul level...we chose to come into this experiment....
we were the lucky ones that had earnt that right to incarnate on this beautiful planet...it's just part
of the deal when animating these hominid forms, that we can't remember who we are...this is why the Annunaki
(who did one of our genetic tweaks) referred to us as 'the clouded ones'

And as far as Adam being the beginning of all this...that doesn't make sense in light of current knowledge...
this is just the last 'round' on this planet..there's been 4 or 5 previous 'rounds', and Atlantis
and Lemuria were part of the current one. 'Adam' is just a reference to a new genetic advancement at the
hands of the Annunaki...there's been many genetic DNA mods of us hominids for at least the last 10 million
years, by various ET 'scientists'...the discovery of metal tools in rock 10 million years old is evidence of that...

It wasn't just humans that the Annunaki tweaked in Ancient Sumeria either, but also the modification of animals and
plants into domesticated varieties. Lloyd Pye's articles in the NEXUS archives explain this 'intervention' rather well.....
Darwin was wrong

Most of the world's religions were formed at this time (except the Vedic texts which stretch back to the Atlantean era)
The interaction of humans with ET 'Gods' and interdimensional beings has created a plethora of belief systems and
contradictory dogmas. There is a spiritual dimension to this realm, but it has more to do with responsibility to our own
soul advancement than any sort of 'worshipping'. As our souls become more 'enriched with light' from good work,
it enables us to 'merge' with similar souls beyond this realm. This could be interpreted as getting closer to the creator.
Other souls, which have not learned lessons or done good works will be only able to stay in the 'lower level' group and
repeat the process until they 'get with the program'

The Mormon's aren't wrong in saying we become gods, but not in the way their convoluted dogma portrays it.
It's more like graduating from University after you've done the hard work. There's no reason why we can't be
intergalactic genetic engineers, just like the ones we call our 'Gods'
The possibilities are truly unlimited beyond this realm

So, I basically take the Buddhist approach on my particular spiritual path.
I know the existence of Reincarnation and Karma to be a fact, because of personal experience,
but to me they are just mechanisms of this particular realm.
I don't worship a supreme being, but respect the guides that help me on my path.

Some may find this approach simplistic, but often, the simple answer is the truth. Other religious approaches
can also achieve the same desired enlightenment of the soul, as this realm interconnects with a multitude of possibilities.
The main criteria is to not encroach on other's free-will or beliefs, and to not harm any sentient beings.

"BULLSHIT BAFFLES BRAINS.....BUT TRUTH STANDS ALONE AND UNADORNED"

Peace

 

I think all, at this present state of the universe, that we need to comprehend, is the fact that god entrusted us with its life.

Look in the mirror and realise that you are real, and nothing in the whole know / unknown universe represent the exact form of your being and perception.
The universe is really something we are apart of, it is our body, our nature, our wilderness and soul.
Our bodies are made from the same source as the beautiful sun, and there is a very important reason such a sun would dedicate its time, space and energy for us.

Life = you

You yourself, is the answer ti the question that human beings are looking for.

There is only one answer, but infinite questions.

 

Very nice and very poetic.

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firstly welcome to sciforums.
there is the subjective mind ( your own personal thoughts and imaginations)
and the objective mind ( the one that interact with reality) for instance if you think of your mother, this is an objective thought as she is real to you and other as well, and can be tested by the five senses.
however if you think of a god/soul/fairy etc, this is a subjective thought, as it is only real to you and can not be tested with the five senses.
all thoughts are virtual reality to the individual, until they become real by reacting with reality.
else they stay in the imagination.
we need our subjective reality else we'd all be logical zombies and nobody would have ever told/wrote a story, made a film or painted a picture.
however this does not make our imagination real only the things we've created in the real world.( modern art for instance.)

no wrong, see above paragraph, I think most have been scared of the dark most have been indoctrinated into religion, and most would have had a supernatural experience, however most also realise that this is only their imagination.

no wrong, love is a chemical reaction, and I doubt very much that anybody has not felt love, we've all had mothers, or adopted mothers, or people who care for us, or best friends, and some use there imagination to find love, and experience euphoria {IE love of jesus) your the one trying to tell us the supernatural is real ar'nt you.

I'm glad you stated these are you own personal theorys, so yes all these things are fact to you, in your subjective mind.
and I'm glad for you.

yes and subjective truths are always true, to you.

I totally concur.

 

Hi audible,

Thanks for the welcome & the reply

You've made me realise that there's probably a rational explanation
for most of this stuff that wacko's like me believe in...

Precognition, telekinesis, stigmata, ufo sightings et al, are probably
all caused by some weird chemical reaction in the brain...

Let's just wait for the scientists to confirm their results
before we bother looking into this rubbish..

After all, we're just a random assemblage of molecules here,
with no real purpose...

Well, I must run, I'm gonna hoax another UFO sighting today....

Who knows ?...I might get famous and make lots of money...

Peace to all......and don't buy into the 'Fear Matrix'

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Ganesh- interesting theory, it would make for a good sci-fi book, but in reality its just your imaginition

Gambit star-your response was vague and meaningless.

Ellion- like my first post says: nothing caused existence

Saint - my first post doesnt prove buddhism true, rather it disproves the requirement for the supernatural

audible - you speak words of wisdom

 

we didnt create mass, energy, gravity, or ourselves. and there are around 6 billion of us.

 

why do you say this to me?

it has no relevance to my post.

 

ellion - existence is the irreducible primary at the base of all causal chains. to say "something came before existence" is an impossibility. therefore, to answer your question, nothing exists outside or anterior to existence.

by using this vague definition of god you are correct, if your definition of god is existence itself. my point is there is no need for belief in the supernatural. it is not only superfluous but an incoherent theory