Yorda said: The Bible doesn't teach that there is no reincarnation, it just doesn't teach anything about it. Bible: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:27) I am sorry Yorda, but God gives us one life, and Jesus died one time to save us.
I only believe the things Jesus say, and he never said that we only have one life. I wish there was only one life too, but I can't believe that because it doesn't sound true to me. That quote from the Hebrews probably doesn't mean physical death... it means that we die spiritually. Maybe not... but my god gave me many lives so that I would have to suffer much... maybe we have different gods. People say that Jesus died for my sins... but... I just don't get it. How could His death help me...
Woody: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."(Hebrews 9:27) I am sorry Yorda, but God gives us one life, and Jesus died one time to save us. ************* M*W: The Book of Hebrews were the words of Paul who never knew Jesus much less anything Jesus might have said. Quoting the Bible is no more factual than quoting The da Vinci Code, for example. Christian "belief" is that Jesus died to save you, but he wasn't even declared divine until almost 400AD! So, technically at the time of the crucifixion, Jesus was NOT considered to be a savior. There were some 16 dying demigod saviors who preceded Jesus (all born of virgins, I might add).
Yorda, You don't understand how Jesus died for your sins. Neither did I for a few years. I heard it and heard it, but I did not understand it. I'll try to explain it, please give me a few verses to get to the answer: First Jesus tells us why He came to earth John (3:16-17): For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. The first thing to realize is that Jesus is able (has the power and authority) to take a person to heaven where God lives. He said that he does: John 10:14-18 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. He prooved he has the power through his own resurrection, and that is the proof he presents to us. However, we as humans have a problem with our imperfect sin nature and this is where the death part comes in (which I will get to). John 3:3: Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. A spiritual birth is required from God himself. This is not the spirit/soul we are originally born with, this is a spirit from God. It can share our body with our spirit/soul. So our body can have His spirit and our spirit/soul in it. This connection is required to go to heaven In order for God to make that bond happen, Jesus had to die on the cross and swap his life for ours. He took on our imperfections in His own death and washed us clean so we could be spotless before God, then He resurrected himself because the Father gave Him the power, and now He is able to take those with Him that have exchanged their sin for His perfection, because He has the power to resurrect them as well. He had to die to do this, it was the only way. II Corinthians 5:21 For he (God) hath made him (Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him (Jesus). Would you like to know how to do this -- to be born again?
Woody: You don't understand how Jesus died for your sins. Neither did I for a few years. I heard it and heard it, but I did not understand it. I'll try to explain it, please give me a few verses to get to the answer: The first thing to realize is that Jesus is able (has the power and authority) to take a person to heaven where God lives. He prooved he has the power through his own resurrection, and that is the proof he presents to us. However, we as humans have a problem with our imperfect sin nature and this is where the death part comes in (which I will get to). A spiritual birth is required from God himself. This is not the spirit/soul we are originally born with, this is a spirit from God. It can share our body with our spirit/soul. So our body can have His spirit and our spirit/soul in it. This connection is required to go to heaven In order for God to make that bond happen, Jesus had to die on the cross and swap his life for ours. He took on our imperfections in His own death and washed us clean so we could be spotless before God, then He resurrected himself because the Father gave Him the power, and now He is able to take those with Him that have exchanged their sin for His perfection, because He has the power to resurrect them as well. He had to die to do this, it was the only way. Would you like to know how to do this -- to be born again? ************* M*W: Woody, before you go preaching to Yorda and posting redundunt scripture, please answer my previous questions and present your extra-Biblical evidence to prove your statements. For someone who's been "born again," you have a major chip on your shoulder. You just don't seem to be a real Christian. You exude phoniness, and if you are as intelligent as you claim, you wouldn't rely purely on faulty assumption. You're either a very intelligent man and NOT the Christian you claim to be, or you're a truly devout Christian and dumber than shit. Which is it?
Medicine Woman, Paul was not the author of Hebrews. The style of the Greek and literary structure is very different from any of the Paulines. Read any one of the true Pauline epistles(Romans, 1 Thess) and then read Hebrews. It doesn;t take much to notice the radical difference in style and construction (there is little doubt about this, it is only fundamentalist scholars who would still hold that Paul wrote Hebrews) Even the Catholic Encyclopedia admits this. Also see www.earlyChristianwritings.com for several commentaries on Hebrews.
More about Hebrews (from the Catholic Encyclopedia) ; "Even in the first centuries commentators noticed the striking purity of language and elegance of Greek style that characterized the Epistle to the Hebrews (Clement of Alexandria in Eusebius, "Hist. Eccl.", VI, xiv, n.2-4; Origen, ibid., VI, xxv, n. 11-14). This observation is confirmed by later authorities. In fact the author of the Epistle shows great familiarity with the rules of the Greek literary language of his age. Of all the New Testament authors he has the best style. His writing may even be included among those examples of artistic Greek prose whose rhythm recalls the parallelism of Hebrew poetry (cf. Fr. Blass, "[Barnabas] Brief an die Hebraer". Text with indications of the rhythm, Halle, 1903). As regards language, the letter is a treasure-house of expressions characteristic of the individuality of the writer. As many as 168 terms have been counted which appear in no other part of the New Testament, among them ten words found neither in Biblical or classical Greek, and forty words also which are not found in the Septuagint. One noticeable peculiarity is the preference of the author for compound words (cf. E. Jacquier, "Histoire des livres du N.T.", I, Paris, 1903, 457-71; Idem in Vig., "Dict. de la Bible". III, 530-38). A comparison of the letter as regards language and style with the other writings of St. Paul confirms in general the opinion of Origen that every competent judge must recognize a great difference between them (in Eusebius, "Hist. Eccl.", VI, xxv, n. 11). "
Fortuna: Medicine Woman, Paul was not the author of Hebrews. The style of the Greek and literary structure is very different from any of the Paulines. Read any one of the true Pauline epistles(Romans, 1 Thess) and then read Hebrews. It doesn;t take much to notice the radical difference in style and construction (there is little doubt about this, it is only fundamentalist scholars who would still hold that Paul wrote Hebrews) Even the Catholic Encyclopedia admits this. Also see www.earlyChristianwritings.com for several commentaries on Hebrews. ************* M*W: Then I was taught wrong when I went to a christian university. Not surprising, though. Whether Paul wrote it or not, he influenced its content.
Whether it was influence by Paul or not is beside the point you were making, which is that the author of Hebrews, whoever he or she was, did not know Jesus personally. Oh, and Woody? It's PROVE. There is only one 'O' in PROVE!! (rant over)
Woody: MW , When did the inquisition officially end? ************* M*W: The question I asked you to address was not directly concerning the dates of the inquisition. It was your reference to Pope JPII and the erroneous date you credited him for his action regarding the church's position on the inquisition. But, since you asked me a question about the dates of the inquisition, I shall respond. A document called the Canon Episcopi, published around 906 AD, originated in the 4th century AD and became canonical law. The religious law stated that witchcraft itself was a delusion, but the belief in witchcraft was a reality of sorcery and devil worship. The Canon Episcopi denied witches flew through the air and transformed themselves into familiars such as cats, dogs, hares and toads, and other evil creatures. However, by the 1400s, the Church had a change of heart and set out to hammer the suspected "believers" in witchcraft even though they were primarily old women, herbal healers, midwives, poets and such. The Church set out to prove that the latter day witchcraft was the real McCoy in an effort to remove its image from that of Paganism. Shortly thereafter, the MALLEUS MALEFICARUM (Hammer of Witches) was published as the most complete and compelling handbook on demonology that the Inquisition produced and was adopted by Protestant witch hunters who found their way to The New World in the 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th and 18th centuries. As late as the 19th and 20th centuries (1880-1948)the ripple effects from the infamous MALLEUS MALEFICARUM continued to convince the Church of the reality that devil worship existed within its Christian communities. The horrors of the witch hunters continued into the 20th century under the guise of Jewish cleansing by the Nazis. You asked when the Inquisition officially ended. According to Roman Catholic Church records, in October 1992, Pope JPII officially pardoned Galileo of heresy. This doesn't, however, explain why you quoted an official date for JPII prior to his becoming Pope. Pardoning Galileo in 1992 did not represent the end to the Inquisition -- it's just taken on a new persona. The Inquisition continues well into the 21st century and oppresses females of all ages who suffer under the hands of the Patriarchy. The evils fought by women today continues. They include: Child Abandonment Infanticide Incest Date rape Marital rape Sexual abuse Physical abuse Verbal abuse Emotional abuse Mental abuse Child sexual abuse Female genital mutilation Assault and Battery Sexually transmitted diseases Teen pregnancy Anti-Abortion Advocates Domestic violence Bulemia Spiritual suppression Discrimination of Sexuality Discrimination of Gender Wage Discrimination Age Discrimination Religious descrimination Grandparents rights Pornography Censorship Prostition Femicide International Terrorism Is there any part of this you don't understand?
MW: Many people are "convinced" that Jesus is in heaven, but that's not what Jesus taught! Jesus taught the "kingdom of God is within." To the thief on the cross: And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Jesus: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. Woody: You disagree with Jesus, and that's not a surprise.
Woody:: You disagree with Jesus, and that's not a surprise. ************* M*W: Woody, you just keep posting bullshit and sounding dumber and dumber with each post. I don't disagree with the true words of Jesus, I disagree with the lies of Paul. It is you who disagrees with Jesus's teachings, not me; yet, that high IQ you claim to have is squirting out your ass everytime you post. You don't know the true words of your own dying demigod savior.
MW: So you think the true words of Jesus came from where, the Gnostic Gospels? Where is your source for the true words of Jesus?
Woody: So you think the true words of Jesus came from where, the Gnostic Gospels? Where is your source for the true words of Jesus? ************* M*W: The Gnostic Gospels.
MW, Why are you convinced the Gnostic Gospels are true? Why is their origin more credible to you? Weren't the gnostic gospels dispelled as heresy? Are you from the ophite sect?
Woody: Why are you convinced the Gnostic Gospels are true? Why is their origin more credible to you? Weren't the gnostic gospels dispelled as heresy? ************* M*W: Because I don't believe any OT prophecies were fulfilled by Jesus's coming. I don't believe anything Paul of Tarsus said. He was the least credible source of anyone! The bible was written in code words to protect the writers from their enemies. The writers of the GGs lived and walked with Jesus. Paul did not. The actual words of Jesus can be found in the GGs. The NT does not teach what Jesus taught in the GGs nor did he die to save anyone's sins. The early church fathers condemned the GGs as heresy, but we all know how evil the early church fathers were. They created the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches and burned all the books that didn't agree with Paul's invention of Christianity. Jesus wasn't even a Christian (if he existed at all) and neither were his followers. ************* Woody: Are you from the ophite sect? ************* M*W: I don't belong to any religious affiliation. The Ophites were a second century gnostic sect, but that doesn't mean Jesus was a member, either. The Ophites worshipped the serpent of Paradise. They worshipped because he rebelled against the evil creator of the world. Scholars today agree the term "Ophite" is another name for the "Sethians." The Ophites teach that the serpent of Genesis befriended humanity by telling the truth. Gnostics typically identified Eve with the wisdom of the serpent, in fact they share the same name "HWWH." Ophites used live snakes in their rituals. The closest I may come to an Ophite is that I am from a remote part of Appalachia, and I am quite familiar with the fundamentalist Christian sect of snake handlers, but I was not one of them. I do tend to agree with some of the Ophite teachings due to their belief in feminine spirituality. If you're trying to insinuate that I'm a devil worshipper, I'm an atheist, and I don't worship any deity, because as far as I'm concerned, there isn't one.
M*W: The Book of Hebrews were the words of Paul who never knew Jesus much less anything Jesus might have said. Woody: My reference says Saul/Paul of Tarsus lived from about 10 C.E. until about 63 A.D. Saul of Tarsus Birthday "The actual founder of the Christian Church as opposed to Judaism; born before 10 C.E.; died after 63." Wouldn't that make Saul contemporaneous with the life of Jesus? Paul was a pharisee. It's hard to imagine a pharisee that was totally oblivious to the things Jesus said when Jesus was alive. All the pharisees plotted to have Jesus executed. Surely, Paul was aware of this, wasn't he?
