Heaven and Hell... i choose neither

For me, anything that is eternal or infinate scares me. Why? Because it is incomprehedable.

If christianity is correct then we will either good to heaven or hell for an eternity. Ladies and gents that means forever, no brakes or rests from it all. Your in and your stay. Not 10 years or 2 million years... infinatly. I personally do not want to be somewhere for an infinite amount of time. Maybe thats why nothingness scares me too.

Also heaven is supposed to be perfect goodness right? Well if you think about it aren't most of the fun things in this life a sin? A place where everything is perfect and all situations turn out for the best is boring and predictible. Controversy, dilemas, and unpredictability is what makes life exicting.

As goes for hell, if those murders who know and admit they are going to hell really believed that, no way would they ever murder. No one murders with the knowledge of knowing they are sending themselves to infinite and eternal torture. It is incomprehensible.

this is where it really gets frustrating becuase either way the roads go to something infiniate and eternal. It's eternal boringness or torture or nothingness. Each making me depressed.

anway, my 2 cents

 

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Also heaven is supposed to be perfect goodness right? Well if you think about it aren't most of the fun things in this life a sin? A place where everything is perfect and all situations turn out for the best is boring and predictible. Controversy, dilemas, and unpredictability is what makes life exicting.

As goes for hell, if those murders who know and admit they are going to hell really believed that, no way would they ever murder. No one murders with the knowledge of knowing they are sending themselves to infinite and eternal torture. It is incomprehensible.


Good people and bad people share something very important. They taste exactly the same to all the little wormies.

this is where it really gets frustrating becuase either way the roads go to something infiniate and eternal. It's eternal boringness or torture or nothingness. Each making me depressed.

So take the initiative to be a leader. It is far better to lead in hell than to follow in heaven.

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Hi physics,

There are many who share your views.

And the answer –

Take care.

Cris

 

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Well I think tht you need not to worry. Christians are wrong, because they only thought of their "religion" 2000 years ago and so are all the rest so called "big" religions. If you think of smthing thn it is real only for you or the people beleiving in you. Think of it, Christians live a long good and pure life, die and find out tht it was for n-thing, because everyone is treated the same, so why to spoil life with churchgoings and such.

I think tht the best we could get after we dye is we either reincarnate or get to live in another dimension. I think tht the first is more credible, because physics state tht energy is never destroyed, but takes a different form/charectiristics/

The worst........we die and tht's tht.

So the best thing to do is to enjoy or lives and to do everything this life has to offer. When we die.......well, then we will see and act according to the situation.
So no need to spoil your life with such nonsense as hell or heaven and fear of them.
Here's my $20 nooooo wait 1c, I said I want to enjoy not give all to you

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ok, cheers!

 

There is always the answer that cannot be won:

Because heaven and God are incomprihesible... we cannot imagine what it is like in heave, or what is God like. Heaven will be perfect, that´s what the believers believe.

It is very hard, if not impossible to try to reason with such issues as God or heaven... or hell. Eternal Good? Eternal Torture? Those are subjective things... therefore... whose Good and whose Torture? God´s and devils?
In heaven will God force his moral upon us and will we live in his Good? Or will it be our good, and therefore is it Good in everybody´s eyes? or in God´s eyes?

In either way, there is conflicts, perfectness cannot be fulfilled... or can God overcome logic and somehow overcome all conflicts... overcome logic?

Whatever the answer is, what greatly disturbs me is the earth-sentric view of all religions. Somehow humanity is the only one in the whole universe and God has chosen us... perhaps this gives some hint that it´s not God who have made our religions... but human thinking, which was still quite narrow at the time as religions were created/born.

As Konstantin Tsiolkovsky said:

The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle forever

Perhaps in the future, humanity will have to prepare itself for a culture shock. Religions have survived from all that sciene has discovered so far, they have survived even though we have seen that we are not the center of even this galaxy... but what if we discover that we also aren´t the only ones here.

 

Some of those notions of Heaven and Hell may not even be valid within the Christian religion. I've posted these links up before, but I'll just post them up again, one is called 'The Devils Biography' and exposes the notion of a devil as an invention created sometime after the Christian church was founded
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~robwir/devbio.html

Another one describes who Satan really is in the Jewish belief.
http://www.beingjewish.com/basics/satan.html

If any Christian starts condemning you to hell or accuses you of being corrupted by Satan, then just slap them in the face with those websites.

 

This reminds me of that one Voyager episode, with the problem of boredom in the Q continuum. You know, that one where they all.... bah, nevermind.

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Which episode was that??? ah, go on tell us

 

SIN is not in an action...it is in the intent. Sin is in the heart.
Example
Drinking is NOT a sin....harming others...ie abusing the wife, destroying the family, not providing for the kids, driving and endangering anothers life...is sinfull..DRINKING is NOT a sin

Sex is NOT sinfull...tearing your childrens home is, grieving and hurting your wife is, pushing yourself on someone with out mutual consent is a sin...SEX is NOT a sin.

Paul said: "NOTHING is a sin for me, BUT all things are not profitable!" "NOTHING is forbidden to me, BUT I shall be controlled by nothing!"
ALL things are from God and for our benefit...sin is a intention...malice, cold heartedness, disregard for another, or even for yourself.
"Love your neighbor this is the fullfillment of the law!...Love, Hope, and Charity, and the greatest of these is LOVE."

If heaven is perfect then we shall be forbidden nothing we desire or enjoy...the difference will be the action done in love and joy and peace...not in selfishness, greed, and indifference.
Just my usuall 2.5 cents.

 

Basically, the Q are omnipotent beings with the power to do anything they want. They had the power to travel to any point in time, to alter any piece of the universe and so on. They are also immortal. As you can imagine this would get boring after a few million years, which is exactly what the episode was about. A few of the Q wanted to become normal mortal beings, just so they could die and end their boring life. That's basically it.

I don't think I'd want to live anywhere for all eternity, even if it is in a perfect place.

 

*Originally posted by physicsforums.com
Well if you think about it aren't most of the fun things in this life a sin?*

Ask a 50-year-old prostitute if she still likes sex.
If that's too close to proving your point, ask a pregnant 13-year-old with AIDS how much fun she's having.

*Originally posted by Cris
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.
-- Albert Einstein, obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955"*

Too bad ole Al had it backwards.
We're made in God's image, not the other way around.

As for not surviving the death of one's body, ole Al had that part right, but he failed to take into consideration the resurrection.
Ooops.

*Originally posted by Dracula's Guest
Some of those notions of Heaven and Hell may not even be valid within the Christian religion*

Most versions aren't.

First of all, no one is going to live in heaven forever.
We'll be right here on the earth, the new earth, mind you.

Second, no one's going to live in hell forever, either.
Just ashes, that's all.

But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
(Psalms 37:20, KJV).

*Originally posted by Xelios
I don't think I'd want to live anywhere for all eternity, even if it is in a perfect place.*

Now that wasn't hard, now was it?
You made your choice, exactly as per the Bible.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
(Deuteronomy 30:19, KJV).

You have the choice between life and death, with the hint to choose life.
You just chose death and cursing.
Remember this conversation, in the event that you get tired of the curse.

PS if boredom is evil and there is no evil in heaven, then there wouldn't be any boredom there, either.

 

Boredom is evil?

Heaven sounds more like a brainwashing facility.

 

If all bad things tht are done in heaven turn out to be good at the end, then soon all its inhabitants won't know the difference between good and evil. And if Lucifer was indeed outcast from heaven, then no questions why he is called evil. He got used to tht everything he did in heaven was good and when he left it he continued to do all kinds things. Maybe he thought tht they all would eventually turn out to be good

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heaven=moral degradation

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I never did understand that. If heaven contains no evil, how did Lucifer become evil?

 

Oh!! I think I remember this one.....

This is the episode where the Q's have a civil war? is that the one?

 

Ok weird freakie things about the english language...

God spelled backwards is = Dog,
Evil spelled backward is = live.

Aint that wierd? So be good to your dog, he may be god's eyes.
And be sure to be evil, since it's part of life, to plainly live!!. LOL

Ok!! you don't have to be that evil, just a bit sin won't hurt you, as long as you don't harm anyone. Is basically what Taken has posted.

 

Yeah, I think that's the one Godless

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What do we really believe?

Concider this

What is seems to me like is that most of us were born into a church, and have started to question the values and the teachings imposed upon us. We need somewhere to see what others think. We don't want to fear the fact that if this thing called christinaty was real, then we are going to be burned, and tortured ... So then what? Do we believe just so that we have the blanket of comfort around us. JUst to say "Well, i accepted, and believd at some point. Does it still apply if I question things?"

Right now I am going through a stage in my life that I think has really opened my eyes. Christanity has do some pretty messed up stuff in its name. Hence the Crucades... I'm really not sure where I would go if I died tonight. I Believed whole heartly when i was a child. I didn't question anything. BUt now i have the chance to rip the blinders off of my face, and i see an entire world of oppertuniut.

The morals that the church stood for i think are really important, and are good. But everything else I'm not so sure about.

things like the virgin birth, it has been proven possible by science. It is more common to happen in lesser animals, chuickens, mice. But there is no "HOLY SPIRIT" in that is there? If there was would that bean that God reproduces with mice, and chickens. Is there a god of chickens who after being fried rose and walked off the dinner table? Also Jonha being swalloed by a whale??? What the heck, there is no way that a man could be swallod by a whale and survive. Digestive acids... Also have you ever seen a whale vomit? didn't think so

I guess the main question is "IS GOD REAL?" but do we want to take the chance if he is? What makes our religon more holy, and more right than the others?

We all must decide for ourselves, but I really not sure. PLus if I decided that he did exist, could I completle trust, knowing that I personally found holes?

This reminds me of something else...

The entire point of a religon way back in "OLD TESTIMENT" time was to provide a pecking order so to spead. For instance, in wolves, there is an alpha male, and so forth, he eats first, and keeps everyone else in line, he is the boss.

Well what do human beings do? WE thought well there is no real reason why he should eat first, I'm hungry and starving. So the man guy said, "well the thing ...ermm... that ...ummm... made us, God is his name, well he said that I get to eat first, and he also said that if you didn't vbelieve me then he would burn you and bite you and stuff, but if you do obey me, then i wil tell him to let you into this place with lots of food, forever" Hence a pecking order for human beings.

You can beileve what you want, but look at things from all sides.

Oh yeah, in the church since nothing can really been proven, they say well you have to have faith. If you don't you will be ridiculled, so everyone would agree and fake it so as not to be ostricized.

 

*Originally posted by Xelios
Boredom is evil?*

Maybe it isn't for you, who knows?

*If heaven contains no evil, how did Lucifer become evil?*

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
(Isaiah 14:12,13, KJV).

That is what happened.
However, you may be wondering where evil came from in the first place.


I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
(Isaiah 45:7, KJV).

Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
(Isaiah 54:16, KJV).

*Originally posted by Godless
And be sure to be evil, since it's part of life, to plainly live!!.*

You've got that backwards.

*Ok!! you don't have to be that evil, just a bit sin won't hurt you, as long as you don't harm anyone. Is basically what Taken has posted.*

That's Taken's problem.
Besides, she doesn't appear to be Christian.
Pagan is more like it.

 

So what caused Lucifer to fall from heaven? Did he stumble over a cloud or something? Was the thrown out? If so, why? Was he evil before he fell from heaven or after?

And you say science brings forth more questions than answeres...