Internationalist, hello, and welcome. I had a couple of questions: 1) According to you, would you say it was morally or not morally acceptable for the Taliban to legally force women to cover from head to toe? 2) Is it morally acceptable to you to allow people in the US to walk around in public completely naked? 3) Is it morally acceptable to you to allow women in the US to walk around topless in public – say in a public park or along the road? 4) According to you, would you say Americans are morally superior to the Taliban? Yes or No? 5) Do you believe that two men should be allowed to be married in the USA? 6) If Iraqis are given the vote and they Democratically elect a Theocratic government that does not allow for pluralism, does not allow for freedom of expression, does not allow for women to have equal rights – because this is a Democratically made decision, would you therefore be 100% supportive of their decision? 7) If Iraqis democratically elected a communist government would you support it? 8) Would it be morally acceptable for an American president, for whatever reasons, to invade a country and force the people of that country to speak the English language instead of their own language – in effect destroying that countries culture in an effort to make it more like America? Anyone else who would like to give a couple answers is also welcome to.
1) I like to walk so myself. I guess it's ok. 2) Yes (I don't live there) 3) Yes (I don't live there) 4) No 5) Yes (no difference between the usual and gay marriage) 6) Yes 7) Yes, I'd support their sovereignty 8) No
1. shouldnt be forced.. but if women enjoy it then sure. 2. yes (born that way) 3. yes (born that way) 4. Hell no. 5. No, marriage is created for a man and a women, to make a family. gay people are free to live together but trying to get married is a very different story. 6. yes 7. of course!... id move there after i visit cuba. 8. Hell no
America forcing it's will on others is just the basic law of nature. The strong shall overcome. In nature a cat kills a mouse not the other way around and you can shake your fist in the air but that's the way it is. Lucky for the rest of the world that we aren't more brutal. We could have answered 9/11 by blowing up one of Islams holy sites and then threatened if any more terrorist actions took place we would destroy another as well as a major population center in the middle east. We could continue until Mecca was destroyed and the whole of islam was a distant memory. I'd say the fact we used extreme self control speaks well for the USA.
Lowefly, Spain was the eminent world power once. You make it sound as though a world power acting like a common criminal is to be expected, and our restraint was somehow admirable. Do you feel that the police should gather the family members of hostage takers, and execute them if the hostage takers refuse to cooperate? Sinking to the level of terrorists would certainly make it difficult for the rest of the western world to decide whose side they were on. Islam is the dogmatic nonsense of choice for billions. The actions of a few dozen terrorists that ended in the loss of a few thousand American lives couldn't possibly justify the destruction of sites considered holy by billions in the mind of any reasonable person. The Swiss haven't had a war in centuries. Have they degenerated because of it? Do you think the Swiss long for armed conflict? Or could they be a model of self restraint that other nations might find it wise to emulate?
George Bush is cute and when he says a large word, I like how he pauses - all proud of himself and how he remembered his handlers coaching - before he continues. I'm glad he pretends to have the fate of the world inhis hands. Ronald Reagan was even better. He actually half knew what he was talknig about.
It isnt the basic law of nature. you say "the strong shall overcome" is a basic law of nature. No it isnt, the food chain is, but you don't see baboons capturing territory off of some geese. Take a closer look at nature. Although animals kill each other, they exist in equilibrium. The fact USA retalliated with false claims doesn't speak well for them. The fact that the USA killed 1000s of women and children by carpet bombing afghanistan without capturing Osama doesn't speak well. The fact that Iraq didn't have WMD and USA did doesn't speak well for them.
um.. I think thats essentially what we DID do in response to 911 wasn't it ? Self control? How is that a such a great thing when theres nothing intelligent, evolved or productive in the self controlled act? Self control would've been taking the time to gather solid intelligence and going about trying to pursue the terrorists involved hopefully with better results than going to war with Iraq accomplished. It blows me away to hear people supporting bush by saying well at least hes doing SOMETHING. Hes not afraid to do SOMETHING about it. He did the most knee-jerk obvious animal thing possible, as long as your comfortable with comparing human behavior to animals. It was unfamiliar grounds, and so he attacked it. Just like an animal. Im not saying people didn't want it Im just saying it was wrong. I always find myself musing on when the space shuttle exploded re-entering the atmosphere that last time. I still think its amazing that bush didn't go on to the tv denouncing the evils of extreme thermal variables or whatever and start launching missiles in to far reaches of the atmosphere and announcing that we were now at war with sun, in response to the tragedy. someone must pay! there! take that atmosphere.. we'll get you you evil star you... just wait. Now THATS self control!.
Clockwood: Of course. A well educated person never speaks like a retarded redneck.. Remember when he mixed up some words (financial terms) and created chaos in Japan's jen market? And GWB top 100 idioticy blunders thread got about 1000 of them. Although I find that he's a good representative for the population of the USA. You know the age old saying: Qualis rex, talis grex.
Considering that English is not my native language I don't feel very guilty about such a misspelling. I don't laugh at you when you try to write Latvian. Now back to topic.
Ah yes, we might proceed to pointing out how you make yourself look like a retarded redneck in your attitude towards other races. My point being, that what looks like an idiot isn't necessarily such. There are plenty of those who find his actions fairly acceptable; keeping in mind that the reasons he gives for his actions are bull.
Avatar: One of the smartest people I have met in -any- country was a professor from the deep south. She both sounded and looked like she should be a waitress in some truckstop but I am pretty sure she could do equations around anyone here. A friend, also quite smart, is a severe stutterer and is going back for his masters degree.
1. No. And many of those women do it by choice. The degree of covering up varies, but as far as I understand most Muslim women do prefer to cover up. Force sounds morally wrong, choice sounds morally right. 2. Yes. 3. Yes. 4. No. 5. Yes. 6. If this is an educated choice, sure. 7. Yes. 8. Yeah. The modern means of conquering. Have nothing against them. May the strongest win.
First of all, that is not the definition of fascism: This is how I know that you don't know the real definition of fascism, resorting to Gr.8 tactics to support one's position is quite sad is it not? Let's see what you copied. exalts nation and sometimes race above the individual, Where is this done in the United States? If anything the American society is built upon the premise of the individual not the state, that is what made the American society so unique, if it the nation>individual then rationally Americans should be forced into military service especially at the time of war, and the American people should have a huge tax burden to pay for this war. But since America is not a nation which puts itself over the individual we don't resemble a fascist state. uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition, Where has the US gov't used violence in a extra-judical sense, and outside the confines of the constitution to supress dissent? What is dissent anyways if there is a pluralistic party system, again you misunderstand the BASIC PREMISE OF FASCISM which is it has to be a one party state, in order for fascism to work there has to be a single party, and leader that exemplifies what the nation is, that doesn't exist here. Secondly every state in the world promotes propaganda, and if you don't think so then you gotta get out more, censorship where? So try again... engages in severe economic and social regimentation. Where does the state do this in the United States? Do tell me, if anything the Judicial branch makes sure that we don't impinge on the rights of the individual, especially if that goes against the confines of the constitution, the US is a constitutional society, and a fascistic one is not, in a fascist society the courts would be mere puppets to the executive they are not here in the United States, so again try again. engages in corporatism, Funny considering that in a neo-liberal society corporatism is the anti-thesis of markets. Do you even know what corporatism is, without sourcing someone? Sounds a lot like america.... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I hope you were being sarcastic... Also, remember homossexuals and general racism. US is one of the most racist countries in the world. It is practically your own definition. No question pockets of America are racist, and bigot infested but other parts aren't and are some of the most tolerant places on Earth, San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York, just to name a few. Yes I don't like religious conservatives and frankly religion because from that religion ignorance grows faster then a crack addiction, but in order to push our agenda we need to co-opt the religious conservatives to get these admittedly idiotic people to vote for us. I don't care waht your are nearly as much as what the majority is. And, no, you are far from educated. Well talking about education, what was that supposed to say? Denial of the antecedent Oh don't stop there Google master, tell us why. Oh yes! What a great historical knowledge!!! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Wow.... the brainwashing is REALLY effective.... No son the brainwashing is coming you with your total blind wilful hatred of the United States, I doubt you know anything about the 14 points, I doubt you even know what a neo-wilsonian like myself is. This is not "great historical knowledge" its pure knowledge, and hopefully I can have a conversation with someone who knows what is actually is going on. Your liberalism have nothing of liberal. That is the old Orwell's prophecy: "Freedom is slavery"... You talk about propaganda, this is the height of propaganda, merely discounting what liberalism to aggrandize yourself, do you know what liberalism is? Are you even a liberal? Irrelevant!?!? WTF!?!?!? What are you trying to do now? Denying that the US didn't sign the agreement!?!? No what i am saying is that Kyoto had nothing to do with the issue at hand, you went off on that tangent and thus i consider it irrelevant to our conversation. You still didn't respond to my point, you just reduced the argument to absurb levels. Again, denial of the antecedent. Oh do please explain how Japan became a economic miracle? This should be fun. I see no "liberty". You didn't see the elections? You don't see women in government? You don't see music being played on the streets, you don't see women walking around without their burkha's? Then you sir are blind by your utter contempt for the United States. Actually, the only thing I watch on TV is the Simpsons, cause it exposes a lot of the lies. And it is also as sarcastic as I am... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Watching an American TV show, on probably a American TV. Ha! You make me laugh. Should I really waste my time answering that? Go ahead that's why I'm here. There is no liberalism in the US. It is just a huge joke. As I said, you live in a fascist system that is constantly desguised as a democracy. Hell, don't you see at all? Bush won twice and people didn't want him. People didn't want to go to war either. And Bush is always uing fear to control americans. Like... are you so brainwashed you cannot see what is going on!? I think I adequately dealt with ur assertions about fascism in the US so go on with your diatribe. This is stupid. The very definition of political science states that it is the management of scarce resources. And government is only the bureaucracy that enacts policies intiated by political ideologues like me...get a clue.
It is moral only if the woman chooses of her own accord to wear the burkha, the state has NO place to tell people what to wear, how to wear it, or when to wear it. I am not against the burkha, I am against it being forced on ppl against their will. 2) Is it morally acceptable to you to allow people in the US to walk around in public completely naked? It would be if there weren't children, at certain designated areas I have no porblem, but children should not be exposed to such sexuality in such a raw form. 3) Is it morally acceptable to you to allow women in the US to walk around topless in public – say in a public park or along the road? They allow in Canada, I don't see why not here. I would support that, because breasts aren't a sexual organ. 4) According to you, would you say Americans are morally superior to the Taliban? Yes or No? That's a non-starter because a Taliban is a ideology and an American is a person. So I can't answer that question ask it again. 5) Do you believe that two men should be allowed to be married in the USA? Yes of course, I am a arch liberal just because I am forced into the bad semantics of "neo-conservative" doesn't mean I am a liberal. Like I have said consistently over the past couple of pages I abhor religion, and religious conservatives, but we need them to get the job done, once firmly in power I suspect a power struggle will happen btwn religious conservatives and neo-conservatives. 6) If Iraqis are given the vote and they Democratically elect a Theocratic government that does not allow for pluralism, does not allow for freedom of expression, does not allow for women to have equal rights – because this is a Democratically made decision, would you therefore be 100% supportive of their decision? Yes...because I know at the end liberalism will prevail anyways, that would only be a temporary bloc against the inevitable. 7) If Iraqis democratically elected a communist government would you support it? I support democracy first off, and if they want it, they choose it they will get it. The right to choose is #1. 8) Would it be morally acceptable for an American president, for whatever reasons, to invade a country and force the people of that country to speak the English language instead of their own language – in effect destroying that countries culture in an effort to make it more like America? No because that's not what the president is doing, what he is doing is giving the people of the world a choice, they decide what they want not us.
Ahh, geeezzz.... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! So you completely deny that american citizens exalts their nation? That's probably the biggest american illusion. The state soooooooo control you. And they make you think that they don't by appealing to individualism. But then they say "hey, remember the nation, be rpud", bla, blah blah, and the result is obvious, you believe that it is your idea, while in fact they put it into your minds. They say "we are doing this for the sake of our nation" or "freedom", or the oldest excuse of "national security", and then make you believe that this i right, when in fact they are just controlling you. Once again, the most efficient way to control people is by not letting them know that they are being controlled. An extremely patriotic culture coupled with the huge power of extensive media is the perfect medium for a fscist state that pretends to be a democratic state. ...!?!? You didn't quite made sense half-way through there.... But once again, most american wars had draft. Now, once again, people are brainwashed to be patriotic, which happens to help when you need people to go to war by their own "voluntary" will... Yes... keep dreamning on fantasy land..... Hey! Hello mickey mouse! How are you today!? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Outside of US soil? *I'm running out of "rolleyes".... You mean a plutocratic.... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/plutocracy/PlutocraticPresidency.html Oh great! Let's choose between two parties! One of which happens to always lose, for some strange reason!!! *more rolleyes here..... George Bush is the perfect example of an american..... *rolleyes Tu quoque... Not to mention I seriously doubt this is true.... Abroad. And... by brainwashing you.... 99% of the prison population is made out of people who were severely abused and neglected during their childhood. Meanwhile, you have a criminal ruling the country... *more rolleyes http://monkeydyne.com/bushresume/resume.html Ha! Everyone are puppets there, including a huge majority of the population!!!! Once again, it is all about image. You can pretend to be democratic, but you live in a very plutocratic society. I hope you wake up... ...pockets, you say.... you know that the very concept of patriotism is exclusive, right? The disease is called xenophobia.... San Francisco is exclusive, just look at the movie stars. Any racism there? Plus... http://www.petitiononline.com/sfstate/petition.html http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/08/13/BAGAP87HHO1.DTL http://spongy.typepad.com/blog/2004/02/_rascism_in_san.html ... Los Angeles is one of the capitals of crime... http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200%7E20954%7E2760184,00.html New York.... well.... I could be nice and say they are tolerant, but I doubt... http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8064 http://www.saxakali.com/CommunityLinkups/NYCBdEd6.htm Great! At least you know the people that you have to deal with.... That your position is not my worry. I'm much more worried about what the majority believes in. I'm not a "google master". I studied that. I only use google to find the evidence again, so that I can point it out. I don't hate US, I hate the ignorance that spreads world wide, from it. Me too. I don't aggrandize myself at all. It's there, right before your eyes. Wheter you want to see it or not is your own business. I cannot make you see what is obvious. Bush's war is obviously perpetrated by the "freedom is slavery" philosophy. Well... let's say I'm a humanist liberal... But not when it comes to corporations, because they are the anthetesis of real freedom. Oh, really? You said: "The idea that one can live in a bubble while not taking care of the air isn't very logical. " And I said: "Yes. WHich country is the worst polutting in the planet? Wasn't it the same country that didn't sign the Kyoto protocol?" I don't see how I went off on an tangent. Not at all, I clearly pointed out the heart of the issue. Ahh... Jesus..... *more rolleyes... The point is that just because americans bought cars from Japan, doesn't mean that without americans, Japan wouldn't have sold cars. Learn, please: http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#antecedent "This fallacy is an argument of the form "A implies B, A is false, therefore B is false." The truth table for implication makes it clear why this is a fallacy. Note that this fallacy is different from Non Causa Pro Causa. That has the form "A implies B, A is false, therefore B is false", where A does not in fact imply B at all. Here, the problem isn't that the implication is invalid; rather it's that the falseness of A doesn't allow us to deduce anything about B. "If the God of the Bible appeared to me, personally, that would certainly prove that Christianity was true. But God has never appeared to me, so the Bible must be a work of fiction." This is the converse of the fallacy of Affirmation of the Consequent." You mean the one that Bush stole? Or all the ones that the brainwashed people voted? Well, I'm sure they are causing this: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/censusandstatistics/a/paygapgrows.htm *more rolleyes... You mean the only intelligent american tv show out of... how many? More than 500. What does that say about americans..... *more rolleyes... Btw, the tv is not mine, so I have no idea whether it is american or not. It can always be a toshiba..... Btw, I have nothing wrong with america, as long as it is not patriotic and idiotic, which unfortunately is the greatest majority, which is why I don't like american culture as a whole. And the simpsons does make fun of that all the time... No, they only listen to you. They make the decisions. They decide whether you are right or not. Looks like it is you who needs to "get a clue".
