Things creationists hate: Beetles

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by daktaklakpak, Feb 1, 2002.

  1. daktaklakpak God is irrelevant! Registered Senior Member

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    "Does God have a beetle fixation? Why else would He create so many different kinds? Maybe He loves them more than man. After all, can a beetle sin? "
    --Noah Riggins

    (with apologies to the distinguished British biologist, J.B.S. Haldane. On being asked what one could conclude as to the nature of the Creator from a study of his creation, Haldane is said to have answered, "An inordinate fondness for beetles.")
     
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  3. KalvinB Publicity Whore Registered Senior Member

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    This is where learning how to apply seemingly unrelated threads comes in handy.

    Beetles (and other bugs) serve as a both a food supply for numerous other creatures (including humans) and are the world's pooper scoopers.

    If we didn't have a ton of bugs the world would be a very disgusting place.

    Ben
     
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  5. Bambi itinerant smartass Registered Senior Member

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    Actually, the notion that feces vanish due to dung beetles is downright naive. The planet's by far preeminent pooper-scoopers are plants. Which is why dung, feces, poop or whatever you want to call it is always a great fertilizer.
     
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  7. KalvinB Publicity Whore Registered Senior Member

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    Yeah, because it couldn't possibly be both and I said nothing of making it vanish now did I? I simply stated that beetles clean up the earth. Or are plants the ones that make it dissappear?

    http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/ent/clinic/Bugofwk/970081/dungbeet.htm

    They're called dung beetles for a reason and it was Tiassa who brought them up I believe.

    See...I knew you weren't ready for the fall yet. That's one hell of a horse you got yourself on.

    Ben
     
  8. Bambi itinerant smartass Registered Senior Member

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    And I didn't say dung beetles didn't exist. Notice the word "preeminent" in my previous post -- that is, as opposed to a word like "exclusive".
     
  9. daktaklakpak God is irrelevant! Registered Senior Member

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    "As an idea of how many insects Noah would have had to take on the ark, here is a list of insect orders with the number of species in each (source - Natural History Museum):


    COLLEMBOLA: 6000 eg. springtails
    THYSANURA: 370 e.g.. silverfish
    EPHEMEROPTERA: 2100 eg. mayflies
    ODONATA: 5500 eg. dragonflies
    PLECOPTERA: 2000 eg. stoneflies
    BLATTODEA: 3700 eg. cockroaches
    ISOPTERA: 2300 eg. termites
    MANTODEA: 1800 eg. mantids
    DERMAPTERA: 1800 eg. earwigs
    ORTHOPTERA: 20500 eg. grasshoppers
    PHASMATODEA: 2500 eg. stick insects
    PSCOPTERA: 3200 eg. bark lice
    PHTHIRAPTERA: 3000 eg. biting lice
    HEMIPTERA: 82000 eg. aphids
    THYSANOPTERA: 5000 eg. thrips
    MEGALOPTERA: 250 eg. alderflies
    RAPHIDIOPTERA: 175 eg. snakeflies
    NEUROPTERA: 5000 eg. ant-lions
    COLEOPTERA: 400000 eg. beetles
    MECOPTERA: 400 eg. scorpion flies
    SIPHONAPTERA: 2400 eg. fleas
    DIPTERA: 120000 eg. fruit-flies
    TRICHOPTERA: 10000 eg. caddisflies
    LEPIDOPTERA: 150000 eg. butterflies
    HYMENOPTERA: 130000 eg. ants, bees

    giving a grand total of approx. 965420 different species of insect, about a million (and these are just the species known to western science. There could be another several million unknown species). Given a male and female, make that at least two million insects aboard the ark, ranging in size from a millimetre, up to six inches in size, many having extremely specialised requirements for life, (not to mention quite an appetite for eating other insects...).
    Creationists object to the idea of "species" aboard the Ark, preferring to use "kind" instead. Thus, instead of having nearly a million beetles running around it (beetles not being known for sitting patiently in their pens), Noah simply had a male and female of one "kind" of beetle from which all the others known today have "diversified" (or "evolved", but let's not mention that word). Now, let's say the Flood happened 4,000 years ago, and there are 400,000 known species of beetle. A quick sum tells us that, on average, 100 new species of beetle have evolved (or been Created) every year from those two original parents. That's two new species of beetle a week! In order to explain the current diversity of life, creationists need to conjure up a form of evolution that proceeds at a rate which would make any biologist fall off her stool in astonishment!"

    --Noah's Ark: a sinking ship (with only one pair of rats)

    PS: I think the title above is funny but true.

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    Last edited: Feb 2, 2002
  10. KalvinB Publicity Whore Registered Senior Member

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    And that many bugs would be a problem because?...

    They aren't exactly big. And considering God is very much in control at the time, they wouldn't be doing anything that could eliminate the species. They probably didn't need to eat either.

    I don't see the issue unless you can prove to me that 2 million little bugs wouldn't fit inside the ark.

    Here's another tid bit that I wouldn't expect you to find:

    "However, if God in His wisdom had decided not to preserve some ocean creatures, this was none of Noah's business. Noah did not need to take plants either - many could have survived as seeds, and others could have survived on floating mats of vegetation. Many insects and other invertebrates were small enough to have survived on these mats as well. The Flood wiped out all land animals which breathed through nostrils except those on the Ark (Genesis 7:22). Insects do not breathe through nostrils but through tiny tubes in their exterior skeleton."

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/Magazines/docs/cen_v19n2_animals_ark.asp

    You're assuming they even HAD to be on the ark.

    Ben
     
  11. Bambi itinerant smartass Registered Senior Member

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    Ben,

    Sh yeah, and you aren't assuming a thing...

    For one, you are taking a fable at face value.

    For another, you are assuming God really does exist, Bible really is God's word, Noah really existed, Noah really got instructions directly from God, etc.

    After all that, you actually believe Noah could build such a thing, that he had resources to build it, that it would be structurally sound given its materials, that it would be seaworthy, etc.

    You're also assuming it would house kangaroos from Australia, grizzly bears from North America, Komodo dragons from the Indonesian archipelago, lemurs from Madagaskar, and so on. In other words, land-dwelling lifeforms that could not have possibly reached Noah or been reached by him. Not only that, but he'd have no way of placing them back into all the disparate ocean-isolated places where they are found today. Let me guess: Santa Clause and his magic flying sleigh came to the rescue.
     
  12. flamethrower Junior Registered Senior Member

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    If I recall correctly, I think it was a beetle that once said they were more popular than Jesus.

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  13. KalvinB Publicity Whore Registered Senior Member

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    Yeah, he's dead too.

    Bambi:

    There is no argument against the ark. It could have been done.

    You act like the world somehow hasn't changed. Pangea. Perhaps you've head of it. That and you fail to consider that governments weren't around to restrict what animals could be brought where.

    Ben
     
  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Um ... okay, I'll have a guffaw at that

    So much for young-earth creationism.

    I'll just be sitting over here in the corner, grinning like a cheshire cat.

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    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  15. Bambi itinerant smartass Registered Senior Member

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    No kidding.

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    But you don't get off the hook even with Pangea (which existed for a while 250 million years ago when there not only weren't any humans but also no trees to build the ark with.) You still have to explain how all the marsupials ended up in Australia and nowhere else, how the grizzlies ended up in North America and nowhere else, why the lions ended up only in Africa, anacondas only in South America, polar bears only in the arctic and penguins only in Antarctica (and if you can manage all of the above, I have another few hundred thousand species for your consideration.) Mind you, since Pangea split up Antarctica had enough time to drift into the south pole and accumulate a couple of miles' worth of yearly glacier deposits that contain enough annual layers to be several hundred thousand years old. Under the Antarctic glacier are fossilized remains of a former tropical flora.

    Besides, it's creationists who act as if the world didn't change. Somehow they deny its actual age that is evident from all the change alone (even without astronomy or radioisotope dating) and deny evolution of life to boot.
     
  16. Xelios We're setting you adrift idiot Registered Senior Member

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    LOL, Pangea, less than 6000 years ago!

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    And you say the Bible is not inconsistent, that it is not contradictory

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    If Pangea was truely still in one piece just 6000 years ago the continents would be moving much faster than the 2-18 centimeters a year than they are currently moving. If they were moving 10 meters a year, that would put them about 60 km apart present day. Africa and South America are closer to 3000 km apart (at the closest point, about 5000km at the farthest point), which would add up to a drift rate of about 500 meters a year. This is obviously not the case, as GPS and other satellites do not notice any movement even close to that amount every year.

    Just another example of holes in the theory of religion.

    BTW, is my siggy pic working for you guys? Or is it just showing an X?
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2002
  17. Bambi itinerant smartass Registered Senior Member

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    I only see the 'X'.
     
  18. Xelios We're setting you adrift idiot Registered Senior Member

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    Sigh, typical geocities. Looks like I'll have to find another place to put the pic.

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  19. tony1 Jesus is Lord Registered Senior Member

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    *Originally posted by Xelios
    If Pangea was truely still in one piece just 6000 years ago the continents would be moving much faster than the 2-18 centimeters a year than they are currently moving.
    *

    LOL!!!
    ROTFLMAO!

    Allow me to introduce you to a novel concept which has escaped many scientists.
    The concept is that of "slowing down."

    It's difficult to understand at first, but basically it can be described as the situation which occurs when things used to move faster, but no longer move as fast.
     
  20. mato Registered Member

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    tisk tisk tisk...

    I'm telling your god's mother!

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    Any way, what were the dimensions of the ark? But seriously santa clause did help when the christian god failed. Christmas sucked until the pagan lord stepped in to help out, why wouldnt he move the animals around as well?!

    Ok so um... How many buggers actually were on the arc two to seven of every animal and then seven to nine humans and enough feed for fourty days and forty nights (which is acain to saying, "Calander over board!" In biblical terms...) and god disigned the whole thing? Did it work as well as his disign for the perfect world?! Eden and Jerusalm have failed what faith do I have in a boat from the same disigner? Oh oh and what about Noah's drinking problem we have to ad space for the booze! Ok lets do an experiment go get two to seven of every animal with nostrals and shuve them into a tiny boat to see what will happen... I say it would turn into an all you can eat for the preditors and that includes humans. Oh and if god was so pissed as he flooded the whole world um... why would you want to worship him? He with the agression disorder divine? Eh no thanks...
     
  21. tony1 Jesus is Lord Registered Senior Member

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    Re: tisk tisk tisk...

    *Originally posted by mato
    I say it would turn into an all you can eat for the preditors
    *

    No.

    My God hath sent his angel, and hath shut the lions' mouths, that they have not hurt me: forasmuch as before him innocency was found in me; and also before thee, O king, have I done no hurt.
    (Daniel 6:22, KJV).

    God can close lions' mouths, so presumably he can close any mouths.

    *Oh and if god was so pissed as he flooded the whole world um... why would you want to worship him?*

    He wanted to clean up the place.
     
  22. Xelios We're setting you adrift idiot Registered Senior Member

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    Allow me to introduce you to a novel concept which has escaped many scientists.
    The concept is that of "slowing down."


    Oh, I see, and what caused Pangea to suddenly explode apart at several meters per second? Why should it be slowing down? Does a boat in an ocean slow down when it is being carried by the waves? If you can't answer these questions I don't even want to hear any more of your "slowing down" theory.
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    And why doesn't the bible mention the world-wide volcanism which must have accompanied the sudden breakup of Pangea?
     

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