Is this why Giuliana Sgrena was targeted for assassination by the US?

This is a news story from Giuliana Sgrena who posessed sensitive information, that America did not want her to reveal . America was already trying to cover-up the evidence of war crimes in Fallujah on a massive scale. Just 2 weeks after that story , Giuliana Sgrena was "kidnapped", after having interviewed surviving witnesses to the events of Fallujah. Last week the Iraqi Health Ministry confirmed that the US used chemical weapons on civilians in Fallujah. At that point, Giuliana Sgrena's "captors" probably decided there wasn't much point in holding her any longer, and she was released. Tellingly, her captors warned her that the Americans would not want her to leave Iraq alive.

Judging from this smear campaign already launched against Giuliana Sgrena
I say America believes Sgrena found hard evidence that the US did indeed use banned chemical weapons against civilians in Fallujah. Having failed to kill her , the only recourse the US has is to attack her credibility before she can recover enough to go public with what she knows.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

hey, it still brought news of americas actions to everyone outside of the information loop, so even if her claims are dismissed, thousands more will join us in reading the actual news not american propaganda

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Bah, if they (the Americans) wanted her dead, she would be. They had her. She is alive (as well as others in the car) because she wasnt being targeted.

The Italians running this mission messed up big time. They are lucky only one of them is dead. They knew there was a curfew. They know full well what happens to speeding cars headed towards volatile areas in a war zone, after curfew, in the middle of the night. They chose to ignore it. The Italians are the ones responsible for this.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

That is interesting articles Brian but why do you think that the Americans didnt just kill them anyway? the "spin doctors" dont really seem to care about eye witnesses or anything so why let her live?

 

If she had such damaging information why didn't her captors release her without a ransom so she could reveal it?

 

the US soldiers did their job exceptionally.

1- they effectively shot at the car which was breaking curfew while travelling dangerously fast and recklessly (in Sgrena's own words)

2- they were alert enough to stop shooting when they heard Italian... as opposed to sprey it until nobody moves and no car is left, which is something that amateurs or nervous soldiers would do, considering all the car bombs and IEDs they're faced with

had only Italian intelligence coordinated this thing with the US army (a little radio call with a car description and route description are extremely easy things to do), none of this would've happened.

the US has no wishes for a diplomatic incident with Itlaly, upsetting world opinion even more, and giving propaganda material to the enemy.

it's pretty sad that a secret agent had to die this way. i'm sure he was a very valuable person for Italy.

 

If I was the CO of those officers, I would have their asses up on charges if they didn't open fire. What would have happened if that car was piloted by a fanatic and loaded to the brim with explosives?

 

otheadp, Sgrena denied that the car was speeding

 

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=14968_Sgrenas_Truth

i'd be driving slow if i were the driver of that car. at least that's what i do when there's a bad storm or ice or snow or pot-holes with puddles.

is that even an issue if she was going Formula-1 or "only 10 km over speed limit" or "dangerous for those weather / road conditions" ?

 

Yeah suuuuuure .................

Think about it ? The soldiers are sitting there in their armoured vehicles, their fingers on the firing button, and this car drives up with a sign in the windows that says 'press'.................

 

Exactly, Clockwood.

This situation is almost exactly the same as one of the scenarios we put the deploying units through on their UREs for OIF/OEF. Basically, we have a civilian car come towards a checkpoint and have it ignore any of a number of warning/instruction signs, then see how the soldiers react to the presence of the oncoming vehicle.

What each soldier has in this case are his own rules of engagement that dictate several things that a threatening vehicle must do before they can engage it (eg, it must be going so fast, coming right at them, ignoring all warnings including warning shots, not signaling in any manner, etc). If the vehicle meets these critera, then the soldiers, if they feel threatned, are authorized to open fire. The right to self defense is never denied.

In the training exercises, we get the OPFOR to do any number of different things...sometimes they are outright hostile and they'll open fire on the checkpoint as they drive at it, sometimes we'll have a female with a "baby" inside who is trying to get to a hospital or something. The car usually does the same thing...runs up to the entry control point as fast as it can, tries to drive through or around it, and then the soldiers react. About half the time, they succeed in stopping the car at the ECP...and most of the time when this happens, it is a car with a bomb in it (and they get blown up). The other half the time, they open fire and live with the consequences. Even in training, the "woman with baby" scenario can really get to some people, as our OPFOR are pretty awesome actors...sometimes we even have the "press" roll up and take pictures of the dead woman clutching her child and let the squad leader or platoon leader try and clean up the mess. It's probaly the most demanding predeployment training we go through at least for us JO's.

Point is, when news stories like this come out, a lot of times it's the direct result of a truly no win fog-of-war type situation. The best way to prevent this sort of thing is to focus on the soldiers doing the checkpoint properly...putting up clear, visible signs telling the instructions for clearing the checkpoint, properly canalizing the vehicles prior to their getting anywhere near the soldiers, knowing and applying the ROE properly for the situation. Unfortunately we can't cover everything, and this is the result. That's all there is to it. There is no "what we don't know" here, and contrary to popular myths (some of which have appeared in this thread) the ECP's are rigorously maintained and ridiculously easy to spot from far away. There is absolutely no way somebody competent enough to operate a motor vehicle could "accidentally" rush into one.

Basically, if the facts in this case are as they've been reported, these soldiers did exactly the right thing. If anyone made a "mistake" in this situation it was the people in the car, not the soldiers. If I was there I would have ordered them to open fire myself.

 

um out of interest were any of the signs or instructions in italian?

And B\W if you had given that order i assume you would have been willing to cop the consiquences which SHOULD be jail time. If you fuck up you go to jail simple as that. The same rules actually applie to the police, they cant shoot someone because they MIGHT be a threat. As soon as there is a police shooting the homoside squad and internal affairs get involved and the officer MUST prove they were justifide. Same should applie to civillian killings and if they were wrong thats just too bad. You get the guns, you get the training, you get the responciability

 

Asguard: Is waving someone down and firing warning shots language specific? The very fact that it is a military checkpoint at all should be enough to clue them in as one of these guys was a freaking secret service goon for heaven sakes.

 

I don't think anyone can really know how they will react in a combat situation, whether it be military, mugging, fist fight or other combat situation, untill they are actually in one. Even the people who have recieve the best military or martial arts training won't know. There is only so much you can simulate with sparring, drills, chin na, excetra. Until you're attacked you can feel confident that you could defend yourself but you don't really know for sure. Everyone reacts a different way to danger. One person might freeze up or run away. Another person might do exactly as they were trained and yet another may get trigger happy and strike out at the first thing that came close enough to make contact. I'm not into conspiracy theories unless there is significant evidence but I don't trust the government either. I'm also not going to comment on who was right or wrong in this regretable circumstance as I know little of it. I would also like to add that I do not have pro military or nationalistic views. I am a citizen of the planet Earth and tend to look at the big picture instead of inividual countries. If anyone wants to make a Nanu Nanu comment about the citixen of the planet Earth thing that's fine, I've heard it all before. If a post like this got through from me before this one I apologize about the second as the first time I got an error message and it seemed not to go through as it basically says the same thing.

 

did you ever think that maybe she was a volunteer, or convinced them of her innocence, and was staying there of her own accord in order to get the $2-$8m that will now be used to fight the americans. if you knew that pretending to be a hostage would earn the people you ore supporting an enormous amount of money wolud you want to leave?

 

if...if...if...Have you any evidence for any of these ifs?
None of your hypotheses answer my question: if she had such damaging information why didn't her captors release her to use it?
If she was a "volunteer" [who wouldn't need the intervention of the Italian Secret Service to get her out], why didn't she just send out the information?

 

I don't know. I wasn't there. I will say that the ECP signs generally employ 4+ different languages, all of which pertain to the region, and at least one of which the people in the vehicle would have been able to comprehend as they worked in the environment. I would be very surprised if nobody in the vehicle could comprehend any of the languages printed on the signs.

Soldiers are not police. However, there will be an investigation (there always is) and if the soldiers acted in error they will be reprimanded accordingly. Given the high profile of this event in particular, said investigation and reprimand will be exceptional.

 

"In the training exercises, we get the OPFOR to do any number of different things...sometimes they are outright hostile and they'll open fire on the checkpoint as they drive at it, sometimes we'll have a female with a "baby" inside who is trying to get to a hospital or something"

Exactly! We put IEDs everywhere and we kill alot of rotational soldiers. Its very good training.


Chemical weapons on civilians?? Right.......... and how exactly did they use these weapons?? Mustard Gernades? VX Bullets?? The Infantry was in there! Do you have any pics of Marines in MOP gear or are U.S. troops now magically immune to Chem weapons?? Get help.

 

or are U.S. troops now magically immune to Chem weapons?? Get help.
when you're Satan, you're immune to anything

 

America has been caught lying .....................again

A very dangerous woman to the Americans alive ?

C O L D B L O O D E D M U R D E R