NASA Researchers Claim Evidence of Present Life on Mars

NASA new boss is expected to be health official. Its previous boss was BS, sorry, bachelor of art.
They do not want any scientists around. Too much trouble.

IDIOTS!

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I wrote about this here: The Space Act: Implications For Us All

I agree that discovering alien intelligence SHOULD garner more funding. I, like most here believe we as a world are ready for it. However, back when NASA was first created and given certain guidlines for releasing information the issue of alien intelligence was seen as a threat, not really a great thing.

I think that perhaps "the Brookings Report" and "The space act" have combined to create the problem currently in place now. However, read the link above because mainly that's where I outline their train of thought.

 

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nice switcheroo - there IS a conspiracy to conceal the LACK of alien life!!! Tantalising selected evidence planted or faked to look like there still might be a chance of life elsewhere... not too much or you'll have to produce the green slime...

Na. Seriously, this is hard-to-do science done under really difficult conditions. Of course the results take interpretation and review.

Back on topic - as far as I can tell, this story (Life on Mars!) was just some reporters getting the wrong end of the stick by wishful reading of a scientific paper.

 

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I am not sure why, Space.com though they were saying CURRENT LIFE was on Mars when they were really saying that conditions in certain potential underground area's COULD support life.

In my haste to finally have that proven, I did not read the story fully and now hate space.com for that! lol.. But after reading it all the way through I really don't understand the title of the article, when you consider it's not about any evidence of actual life.

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Oh well, it will happen soon enough.

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Btimsah, you still didn't answer my question.

I went to the other thread and read your post. All you're saying is that you believe the NASA is obligated to cover up any evidence of alien or extraterrestrial life: but you don't explain WHY you think they should do this--you don't explain what you think the rationale for this would be.

So, again, why should NASA be obligated to cover up alien life? Why would the government not want us to know, for example, that there's an alien city on the dark side of the moon?

Also, on the subject of government funding, the government cut off all funding to the SETI project in 1993--because it wasn't getting any results. Do you think that if SETI had ever succeeded in finding an actual artificial signal, that their funding would have been cut off?

If they had found an actual artificial signal, their funding would have tripled, at least.

 

Sorry, I thought the other thread was self-explanatory. Because the evidence that would reveal the technological advancement of ETI would be a national security threat. Secondly, the potential for the Military to garner this technology and perhaps reverse engineer it could play into it. Mainly the issue would be the DANGER* an advanced civilization would pose for us. I don't believe NASA has any rationale for it, I believe the Military does.

I hope this answered your question.

 

Yes, it did. However...

1. "Because the evidence that would reveal the technological advancement of ETI would be a national security threat."

What does this mean? A "national security threat"...how? You mean the military thinks we couldn't handle the truth that an advanced alien civilization was out there, that we would panic? Do you have any evidence for this assumption? Is that how we have handled unpleasant and frightening news in the past--we panicked? When? During the War of the Worlds broadcast in 1938, when some people really did believe the Martians had landed, this is all that happened.

http://history1900s.about.com/od/1930s/a/warofworlds_2.htm

Nobody "panicked" to the extent of the complete breakdown of law and order. People indulged in constructive activity: they packed and left, they went to church to pray. But Civilization held together.

2. "Secondly, the potential for the Military to garner this technology and perhaps reverse engineer it could play into it. "

You're assuming that any alien technology discovered would be comprehensible to the military. Why are you assuming that? I thought the whole point of "alien" technology was that it wasn't comprehensible to Earthlings.

3. "Mainly the issue would be the DANGER* an advanced civilization would pose for us."

So you're assuming that any alien civilization that was discovered would automatically be (1) still active (IOW, not extinct), and (2) hostile? Why are you assuming that? Why not assume that the evidence would show a long-dead alien civilization? Why not assume that if they weren't extinct, then that they would be, if not friendly, then at least neutral towards homo sapiens? Why assume "dangerous" aliens?

 

There was panick. This may have influinced power-makers in the military to classify such intelligence. Also, the radio broadcast was not a world-wide event. You say they just packed and left? When millions of Americans all pack and just leave, you have a dangerous situation on you're hands. If something like this had actually happened on a world-wide scale the PANIC would have been even worse. Some knew the program, War Of The Worlds, was fiction so not everyone thought it was real. I do believe it's possible our government saw the reaction of the program and HAD to wonder, well what if this was to really happen??

Incomprehensible, untill we try to reverse engineer it and learn from it. Nice try though.

I am not assuming that. I am baseing it on the testimony of hundreds of people who used to work for the United States military. Individuals with highest security classification's. This is not based soley on my assumptions, but on those who decided to classify evidence of ETI as top-secret. I could hypothesis, or guess WHY they would, but that does little to offer much of any substance.

 

Nah, funding would stop for "official" SETI and the military would take over, THEN funding would triple once under their private control.

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Clearly you've never been in a protective situation. One always has to plan for the worse and never underestimate anyone. If an alien civilization is ever found, we won't know anything about them therefore we wouldn't know how they would act or what their motives, if any, would be. People fear the unknown, ya know? Once one lets their guard down is when something bad happens.

- N

 

Iris, the reason, as I understand it, that UFO's are considered 'a national security threat' is because of their superior technology. Of course, to accept that statement,
you have to accept that at some of the UAP's (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena) are
of extraterrestrial origin. That is what you are asking the government to openly state.
There is a problem, however, if the statement is true. The main purpose of the military,
any military, is to offer protection and security to its citizens, a job most in the military
take seriously. The question is, would each country's military be able to assure its
citizenery that it could accomplish this task, if it became necessary, when confronting
the 'admitted' alien technology? IF the military and our government, your government,
ARE aware we are being visited, why would they want to alarm their citizens if no immediate threat is perceived and, hopefully, may never be a threat? Are you aware
of the reports of nuclear missiles, the Minuteman ICBM's at Malmstrom AFB in the U.S.
for instance, being shut down, taken off line one by one while an unidentified object
hovered over the base? No hostile action was displayed by the UFOs, but was it a
'show of force', of technology, and a national security risk as viewed by the military?
Does anyone think the military would relish answering this question, among many others, if the government openly stated we were being visited by extraterrestrial UFOs? No, whether we are being visited or not, the world's governments will keep
mute on the subject, IMHO. A link to the Malmstrom AFB incident:
http://www.cufon.org/cufon/malmstrom/malm1.htm

A link to a questionable newspaper in India with a new article on the same subject
(nuclear missile shutdown): http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/1656.asp

 

The first link is down.

 

At least with ETIs, you can hope for mercy, benign treatment, non interferring observation of (to them) a primative life form, etc. but what if the disaster were natural and inanimate? There have been many "cosmic disaster" stories, some made into movies. Unfortunately, most require something from space (usually an asteroid or comment) to hit the Earth and this is not very probable, in the time period of interest to st of us.

Dark matter excepted, perhaps, the most common objects in the universe are small black holes. The cores of stars bigger than about 6 solar masses end up as stellar-core black holes. There have been many generations of stars before the sun was born. Back in the early history of the universe, it was much smaller. Then the gas clouds, from which stars form, were much more dense. Then as now, most gas clouds formed pairs of stars. (If only one were formed, it would need to rotate too rapidly to collapse enough to gravitationally heat to fusion temperatures. Also the density within the gas cloud is not uniform, so typically the two most dense regions eat up most of the gas to form a pair of gravitationaly bound stars, rotating about their common center of mass.)

Thus, at the present age of the universe, the most common objects in the universe are gravitationally-bound, small, black hole pairs. (all those prior generations of big stars are now "stellar core" BHs with typically a few solar masses each.)

What would happen if one with 3 solar masses should pass "near" our solar system, say five times more distant than Pluto is from the sun and in the same azmuthical sector of the sky as Pluto, just to take a specific example? Well since Pluto is not in a strong gravitational field of the sun, it could be strongly disturbed. Perhaps even its orbit plane would be tilted from the ecliptic. Neptune is also far from the sun. If not in too different a sector at the time of the BH's passage by our solar system, it too would be distrubed.

To cut to the chase: In the late 1920s Neptune was distrubed. Based on this distrubance Percivle Lowell predicted a unknown planet, "planet X," many times more massive than Earth, would be found roughly where Pluto was found a few years later. (He founded the Flagstaff observatory and hired someone whose sole task was to hunt for Planet X, and he did find Pluto.)

For years it was assumed that Pluto had mass much greater than the Earth, as this was necessary for it to make the observed perturbations to Neptune from Pluto's orbit. We now know Pluto is in fact smaller than the moon. It was hard work searching a specified region of the heavens plus luck that found Pluto. It would not have taken so long as it did to find if Pluto's orbit plane were essentially in the ecliptic, like all others are.

Now back to the fact that stellar-core BHs come in pairs: The thesis of Dark Visitor is that the second memeber of this "1920/2008 pair" of stellar core BHs will pass thru solar system in 2008. The good news is it is only 2.2 solar masses. The bad news is it misses the Earth by only

 

AND?

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A question about the fact that each day now it seems more and more likely that we will discover some form of life on Mars and perhaps Titan.

At what level would we be prepared to declare it as having intelligence.

Even microble life can display some level of organization and cooperative living. i.e. - bees, ants and spiders have social order and are excellent constructionist and build complex things.

Where does one distinguish intelligence from instinct, etc.

Even trees on earth have shown a form of cooperative living. If attacked by some parasite some trees give off a chemical signal and other trees receive that information and begin to develope a resistance to the attacker.! They communicate even if at a rudimentary level.

 

At least with ETIs, you can hope for mercy, benign treatment, non interferring observation of (to them) a primative life form, etc. but what if the disaster were natural and inanimate? There have been many "cosmic disaster" stories, some made into movies. Unfortunately, most require something from space (usually an asteroid or comet) to hit the Earth and this is not very probable, in the time period of interest to us.

Dark matter excepted, perhaps, the most common objects in the universe are small black holes. The cores of stars bigger than about 6 solar masses end up as stellar-core black holes. There have been many generations of stars before the sun was born. Back in the early history of the universe, it was much smaller. Then the gas clouds, from which stars form, were much more dense. Then as now, most gas clouds formed pairs of stars. (If only one were formed, it would need to rotate too rapidly to collapse enough to gravitationally heat to fusion temperatures. Also the density within the gas cloud is not uniform, so typically the two most dense regions eat up most of the gas to form a pair of gravitationaly bound stars, rotating about their common center of mass. Being big, they rapidly age into Black Holes pairs.)

Thus, probably at the present age of the universe, the most common objects in the universe are gravitationally-bound, small, black hole pairs. (all those prior generations of big stars are now "stellar core" BHs with typically a few solar masses each.)

What would happen if one with 3 solar masses should pass "near" our solar system, say five times more distant than Pluto is from the sun and in the same azmuithical sector of the sky as Pluto, just to take a specific example? Well, since Pluto is in a relatively weak gravitational field of the sun, it could be strongly disturbed. Perhaps even its orbit plane would be tilted from the ecliptic. Neptune is also far from the sun. If not in too different a sector at the time of the BH's passage by our solar system, it too would be distrubed.

To cut to the chase: In the late 1920s Neptune was distrubed. Based on this distrubance Perceivle Lowell predicted a unknown planet, "planet X," many times more massive than Earth, would be found roughly where Pluto was found a few years later. (He founded the Flagstaff observatory and hired someone whose sole task was to hunt for Planet X, and he did find Pluto.)

For years it was assumed that Pluto had mass much greater than the Earth, as this is necessary for it to make the observed perturbations to Neptune (from Pluto's orbit, which is always at least 17AU from Neptune). We now know Pluto is in fact smaller than the moon. It was hard work searching a specified region of the heavens plus luck that found Pluto. It would not have taken so long as it did to find if Pluto's orbit plane were essentially in the ecliptic, like all others are.

Now back to the fact that stellar-core BHs come in pairs: The thesis of Dark Visitor is that the second memeber of this "1928/2008 pair" of stellar-core BHs will pass thru solar system in 2008. The good news is: it has only 2.2 solar masses. The bad news is: it misses the Earth by only 12 times the distance to the sun (A 12 AU miss is much more likely than the "direct hit" concept of other "cosmic disaster" stories.)

I used the Dark Visitor story as a vehicle to teach a lot of physics, without the reader being aware how much he / she is learning. All the physics and a lot about climate is all woven into the story. For example, Keppler's three laws are explained and used but never even named, certainly not taught like you will find in a normal text book. The Earth's orbit will be changed by a bout 10% after 2008. A permanent ice age developes, but unlike all prior ones, it is confined to the Northern Hemisphere. We Southern Hemispere dewellers get to live, no ice, but you would not believe the floods that wash away most of our cities.Explaining why all this is so is the vehicle I used to painlessly teach about the mechanism of climate.

I am trying to recrute students to study physics. The western world has already lost technological leadership to hard working Asians and is process of losing scientific leadership as well. (Not because of cheap wages - people who can design a robot that can walk while playing a buggle don't come cheap.) Visit site www.darkvisitor.com to learn more, to get list of physics and climate painlessly taught, and see how to read entire book for free. (My motive for writing it is as stated, not profit of fame. - Billy T, the primary author of Dark Visitor, is not my real name.

The book's astronomer, Jack, provides most of the physics as he explains it to Billy T. The climate information comes from their mutual friend, George, brother of Jack's wife, who worked for NOAA. (Jack is too busy looking for slight deflections of background stars as the approaching BH passes in front (to refine the trajectory of approach) to write the book himself.) Jack and Billy T were college roomates at HARVARD, etc. Billy T tells about Jack's Ph.D astronomy project - another vehicle to painless teach physics, etc.

It is called Dark Visitor because being a BH, it reflects absolutely zero sunlight - telescopes do not see it coming. It may be, and someday will, but probably not in 2008. The unexplained late 1920 disturbance of Neptune, may have been the first indication that our solar system would be visited by two gravitationally bound BHs, the most common objects that exists in the universe! If Neptune's pertubation was something else, it is still true that someday we will be visited by a pair of "dark visitors."

 

A couple of corrections/clarifications:

Although discovered in 1930 the alleged disturbances of Neptune were based on observations made at the end of the 19th century and first two decades of the 20th century. Lowell made his first prediction of Planet Xs position in 1902.

There was no anomaly to explain. The apparent pertubations in Neptune's orbit were caused by assigning an incorrect mass to Neptune.

 

You're telling me that "hundreds" of former U.S. military-types have secret inside information--"testimony"--that (a) there really is at least one alien civilization out there, and (b) that it's hostile to us?

Cite for that.

Please.

Or is it just one of those "everybody knows" things?

 

Thanks for the corrections. I knew lowell had long looked for planet X, but did not realize how long! He was not the onlyone to do so. Looking for new planets was popular scientific activty.

On your second point I am confused, perhaps you are correct, but I don't immediately see how you could be, because the orbit of a planet does not depend upon it mass. - It Neptune were replaced by the moon (and given Neptunes exact velocity at the time of replacement) the orbit would remain unchanged.

What does the "incorrect mass" assigned to Neptune change? If Neptune were preturbed (by any other source of gravity) and only half its current mass, the force acting on it would be also half and the inertia only half, so the acceleration causing the pertubation would seem to me to completely unchanged. Again am open to correction if I am wrong. In fact If I have something wrong I want to be corrected.

I also know some claim it was neverpreturbed - only bad observations, but my understanding is that most astronomers think Neptune was perturbed in the late 1920 by something every one assumed was Pluto, until Pluto's very small mass was known.

 

He will undoubtedly cite the so-called Disclosure Project, in which Stephen Greer compiled a list of "eye-witness" testimony from hundreds of sources as a way of convincing Congress to "disclose" its knowlege of UFOs and their alien origins.

I've read over much of the "testimony" and even if we are to assume that each person was being truthful and accurate (a fool's assumption), none that recall indicated that they had knowlege of a nefarious and hostile alien force.

Ironically, I recall hearing that many of the people on the "list" have since asked to not be associated with Greer since he took their "testimonies" out of context, yet he still maintains their "testimonies" in his "Project."

Not surprisingly, you can purchase your very own copy of Greer's Disclosure from Amazon.com for about $20.

I wish I would have thought of it first.

 

Me too. I had to think up something scary and physically realistic, for my book, Dark Visitor - See my post below of about 5 hours ago for details of how hard it was to not violate physic and yet scare with a real cosmic disaster, just waiting to happen.