The Building of the Pyramids

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by ghost7584, Jan 30, 2005.

  1. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    374
    phlogisctian
    The only thing that comes out of a battery, is electrons, from the negative terminal. Nothing comes out of the +ve side at all. Seems the guy making these claims doesn't grasp the basics, and that is why his writing appeals to you, because it seems you don't either.

    Grasp the basics of this: According to accepted science now, electrons only have a slow drift velocity in metals, about the same speed as heat conduction. Electricity flows much much faster than that. So, electron flow cannot explain it. [Electrons must bounce around in atomic lattices like pinballs in a pinball machine drifting slowly through the wire.]- Much to slow to explain electricity.

    Are these 'pole magnets' only liberated when the anode or cathode is hot, btw? So they have discreet energies? Do they obey a law such as Planck's law? Where are the formulae?

    Holding the rods together is allowing them to charge up on north and south pole magnetic units. That is why they become monopoles. This experiment shows that electricity is really made of north pole magnetic units coming out of the positive terminal and south pole magnetic units coming out of the negative terminal.
    Positive and negative charge should really be changed to north and south pole magnetic units. According to Leedskalnin it is all magnetic.
    Electrical charge, the electron, was invented to explain what comes off a cathode in a cathode ray tube. The existing magnetic theory would not allow it to be something magnetic so an electric unit, electron, was invented. However, if magnetic theory is wrong, like Leedskalnin says, and if that experiment up there really works the way that he said, then the electron is really a magnetic unit, a south pole magnet. It is all magnetic. Electro/magnetic theory itself could be reduced to just magnetism.
    Maxwell's equations could be made simpler with more symmetry.
     
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  3. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    OK Ghost, what you're obviously missing, is the complete lack of discovery of 'anode rays'! If these monopoles existed as you stated, they would have been discovered when Cathode Rays were, but this was not the case. I've played with cathode ray tube apparatus in the lab when I was a student, and there are only rays from one polarity, completely trampling your assertion of 'north poles' being emitted, btw.

    The electron is well understood, and we have good formulae for it. We know a lot about it's properties, and can aim single electrons at targets. Now, what your thought experiment fails to acknowledge, is that if an electron is a 'south pole magnet' (in which case all you've done is mis-label a well understood entity) , is a 'north pole magnet' a positron?!!!!! Or a Proton?!!!!!!!!!

    As to your speculation about electron drift velocity not being sufficient to account for electricity, it's becoming clear that you don't have a degree in physics, nor even a lesser qualification. Because if you did, you'd understand the nature of waves, potential difference, and gap theory, and know what you've said was rather uneducated.

    Let me give you an analogy. The molecules of water displaced by the earthquake, in Asia were not the ones that crashed onto the beaches of the surrounding countries. So, does that mean the tsunami didn't happen? No, what it means, is that energy can propogate faster in a medium than the medium itself can move. Compression and rarifaction. This is how sound works, via pressure waves. This is why electric current flows, because of 'potential difference'. Anybody with a qualification in physics knows this!
     
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  5. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

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    phlogistician

    OK Ghost, what you're obviously missing, is the complete lack of discovery of 'anode rays'! If these monopoles existed as you stated, they would have been discovered when Cathode Rays were, but this was not the case. I've played with cathode ray tube apparatus in the lab when I was a student, and there are only rays from one polarity, completely trampling your assertion of 'north poles' being emitted, btw.

    That's a very good observation. However, in a real electricity flow you will have north pole magnets going one way and south pole magnets going the other way, according to Leedskalnin's experiment. How do you know there is only rays from one polarity? That is how they described it theoretically, but in their theory they already decided that protons, can't flow. So, they decided it is only negative particles flowing.
    That is totally based on their way of looking at it. The magnetic fields used to curve the negative flow, will curve an opposite moving positive flow in the same direction. So, how would you know there are no anode rays? You are believing there are no anode rays only because their theory used to explain what is happening will not allow for that. If you explain it as north pole magnets going one way and south pole magnets going the other way, your theory will allow for an opposite flow or anode rays. And it would change nothing. Because of their opposite flow they would curve in the same direction in a magnetic field. It would behave the same as if it is just cathode rays of electrons. Did anyone ever put a chemically coated screen near the cathode, to see if it will light up like a screen near the anode? It probably would, but they would just say electrons are doing it, because that is all their theory will allow them to say.
    Saying there are no anode rays just comes from there theoretical interpretation of what is happening. If Leedskalnin's experiment is true, you really have anode and cathode rays. But they concentrate only on the cathode rays, and develope radio tubes and TV screens to catch those. The anode rays are there, but they are ignored because it doesn't fit with there original theory.


    The electron is well understood, and we have good formulae for it. We know a lot about it's properties, and can aim single electrons at targets. Now, what your thought experiment fails to acknowledge, is that if an electron is a 'south pole magnet' (in which case all you've done is mis-label a well understood entity) , is a 'north pole magnet' a positron?!!!!! Or a Proton?!!!!!!!!!

    A north pole magnet would be just that, a north pole magnet. Possibility that a north pole magnet will grab onto a neutron to make a proton like entity in an atom.
    Leedskalnin said light contains flows of the magnetic units.
    So, shine laser light at neutrons and see if it produces hydrogen gas. There is an experimental test right there. A north pole magnet might grab onto a neutron with a south pole magnet orbiting, and you have hydrogen.

    The idea of north and south pole magnets instead of positive and negative charge is very similar. The same rules apply for both. (Opposites attract and like repel.) The magnet idea would fit well with much of existing theory already.
    However, what is happening with a permanent magnet's field and with electricity would be understood differently. And also, magnetic monopoles would exist.
    [In electricity Leedskalnin did experiments to show that the magnets flow in opposite directions, each flow having a right hand twist to it. That same right hand twist would probably be true for the flow in a cathode.]
    It is this corkscrew right hand twist that would cause these magnetic units to behave like a flow of electrons does in a magnetic field. Magnetic units flowing in the magnetic field will repel and attract the units flowing in the cathode ray, and cancel out part of the twisting motion, causing an overall curve of the ray at right angles to the magnetic field.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2005
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  7. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Ah, I get it now. You haven't got the faintest clue about physics, let alone any real lab time, or a credible degree.

    You dodged my question, asking whether a 'north pole magnet' is a positron or proton. You are evasive, and unspecific about the properties of 'pole magnets' yet have the audacity to suggest they are more fundamental than the well understood electron.

    You didn't grasp that I've played with cathode ray apparatus in the lab, verified them to consist of -ve particles only, and nobody has ever managed to use the apparatus to demonstrate 'anode rays'. It is not theory that prevents this discovery, but nature; pole magnets simply don't exist!

    All you have is allegory, not science. Perhaps you should go and study for that degree you claim to have, and see how reality doesn't work well alongside these crackpot theories.
     
  8. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    374
    phlogistician
    You didn't grasp that I've played with cathode ray apparatus in the lab, verified them to consist of -ve particles only, and nobody has ever managed to use the apparatus to demonstrate 'anode rays'. It is not theory that prevents this discovery, but nature; pole magnets simply don't exist!
    All you have is allegory, not science. Perhaps you should go and study for that degree you claim to have, and see how reality doesn't work well alongside these crackpot theories.

    That experiment, that Leedskalnin proposed with the welding rods connected to the terminal of a battery. Hold them together till they get hot, then separate them. Investigate each on with a compass and see that the one connected to the + terminal is a north magnetic monopole and the one connected to the - terminal is a south magnetic monopole.
    That experiment right there, if it is really true, proves what Leedskalnin is saying about magnetic monopoles and what electricity is really made of.
    I have not done the experiment myself, but I have no reason to doubt what he said, because there are many other experiments in his books and they all would cause the results that he said would happen, based on what they taught me in physics. Leeedskalnin just explained the results in terms of north and south pole magnetic units and not in terms of positive and negative charge.
    If all of those other experiments are correct, then why would he lie about the one with the welding rods? Chances are he did not lie about that. That is why I saw no reason to do it myself. (Also it could be a dangerous experiment with electrical shock involved if you are not insulated.)
     
  9. geodesic "The truth shall make ye fret" Registered Senior Member

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    1,002
    And how, then, would you explain photons?

    What always amazes me in these cases is people's selective blindness:
    Obviously though, this same education allowed him to discover 'lost secrets' of the Egyptians, which have never been duplicated.
     
  10. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    374
    phlogistician
    You didn't grasp that I've played with cathode ray apparatus in the lab, verified them to consist of -ve particles only, and nobody has ever managed to use the apparatus to demonstrate 'anode rays'. It is not theory that prevents this discovery, but nature; pole magnets simply don't exist!

    -ve particles - Are you trying to say electrons? Scientists do not say that electron flow is electricity. Like I explained to earlier, electrons flow through metal with a slow drift velocity, about the speed of heat conduction, according to present theory. (They bounce around randomly in atomic latices, bouncing around atoms and only drift through the metal at about the speed of a snail crawling.) Go back to your physics books and read about electron drift velocity. Scientist now have some kind of idea of virtual photons flowing through wire to explain electricity.
    Guess what! Because electrons flow so slowly through wire, what is coming off of the cathode in a cathode ray tube cannot be electrons. Just like electron flow does not really describe electricity, electron flow does not describe what is flowing in a cathode ray tube. How could electrons moving through wire at the speed of a snail crawling, provide enough electrons to the cathode, at a regular rate, to support a cathode ray traveling at close to light speed? The wire could not supply enough electrons fast enough to support the cathode ray. There is something flowing in that cathode ray tube but it is not -ve particles (or electrons) like you are trying to say. Why don't you call it virtual photons, whatever that means.
    [I think virtual means they don't really exist, just like the theoretical positive charge flow in circuitry don't exist either; - they just use that concept to make circuit mathematics come out right.]
    If the cathode ray is being fed by electrical wire, and if electricity is really north and south pole magnetic units flowing in opposite directions with a right hand twist, then that is what is flowing in the space in a cathode ray tube.
    Like electricity is not really electron flow, what is flowing in the cathode ray tube cannot be electron flow either, because it is supplied by electricity from wire.
     
  11. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    374
    geodesic
    And how, then, would you explain photons?

    Well, I thought about that. The way that they understand electromagnetic radiation now is flawed. If you consider it to be transverse waves of electric and magnetic fields at right angles to each other, then that rules out the particle nature of photons. If you consider it to be photon particles, then that rules out the electric-magnetic field wave nature. So you are stuck with two mutually exclusive ideas to explain light.
    Based on what Leedskalnin said, light contains these magnetic units. So perhaps a photon would be north and south pole magnetic units orbiting one another. How much energy they have, would be a measure of how fast they orbit one another. The faster they orbit one another the larger they are because of centrifugal force. The wave nature of the photons would come from the debroglie particle/wave dualty of quantum mechanics which shows all small particles to have a wave nature.

    Obviously though, this same education allowed him to discover 'lost secrets' of the Egyptians, which have never been duplicated.

    There are about 3 million pounds of very heavy coral stones sitting in Florida, defying modern science to explain how Leedskalnin put them there. (How do you move a 30 ton coral stone with equipment that can only handle 10 tons at best?)
    Leedskalnin moved the whole castle to a different location, because he was beat up by some young guys. The man driving the flat bed truck was asked to stand around the corner of a building. A few minutes later he heard a loud noise coming from his truck. He ran around the corner of the building and saw a coral stone weighing several tons sitting on his truck. There was no lifting machines or tools near his truck. This was repeated over and over again until the whole castle was moved. Perhaps he floated the stones out to the truck and then cancelled out the charge and it fell into the truck!
    And there was also those people from the town that spied on him with binoculars and signed sworn affidavits that they saw stones weighing tons floating in the air.
     
  12. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Messages:
    5,874
    Produce these affidavits. Besides... there are other urban legends that have more substance that have been quite discredited. The guy was purposefully secretive. He may even have hired some discreet help for the heaviest stones, though I'm not convinced that there are any that weigh in at 30 tons. Hiring discreet help is far more likely than some magical levitation or non-existant monopoles.
     
  13. phlogistician Banned Banned

    Messages:
    10,342
    ghost, it's clear you don't grasp physics. I already explained about the drift velocity of electrons, but you ignored that and reiterated a falsehood.

    Cathode rays _are_ electrons. It's been proven. You however, just have allegory.

    Answer my questions, or continue to lack credibility.
     
  14. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    9,232
    Seconded!
     
  15. sly1 Heartless Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    692
    Hmm Its all very amaizing - one thing caught my attention involving your experiment....possibly because it lacked relevant details but......could it be possible the difference in weight from 15 lbs to 13 lbs came from the water you soaked the object in? could it have absorbed 2 lbs of water and lost it in the time it took you to weigh it the second time......Or did you weigh the object before soaking and measure 15 lbs? This isnt stated in your basic methodology.....if it is I missed it and apologize

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    Reguardless, I would try the experiment again, more than twice, with this in mind.....Just because the weight changed doesnt mean it was because of your manipulation, it could have been a variable of things....i would further test to have more reliable results......I think there is merit to the idea or theory here I just dont think the experiment was done in the proper manner to conclude and significance.

    L8rZ
     
  16. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    374
    PhlogisticianAs to your speculation about electron drift velocity not being sufficient to account for electricity, it's becoming clear that you don't have a degree in physics, nor even a lesser qualification. Because if you did, you'd understand the nature of waves, potential difference, and gap theory, and know what you've said was rather uneducated.

    Let me give you an analogy. The molecules of water displaced by the earthquake, in Asia were not the ones that crashed onto the beaches of the surrounding countries. So, does that mean the tsunami didn't happen? No, what it means, is that energy can propogate faster in a medium than the medium itself can move. Compression and rarifaction. This is how sound works, via pressure waves. This is why electric current flows, because of 'potential difference'. Anybody with a qualification in physics knows this!

    Sure, I understand what you are saying. But as I said above,
    How could electrons moving through wire at the speed of a snail crawling, provide enough electrons to the cathode, at a regular rate, to support a cathode ray traveling at close to light speed? The wire could not supply enough electrons fast enough to support the cathode ray.
    If you are trying to say that electricity is electrical energy propagating like waves in a medium, and it is not electron flow, then what I said still is true. The cathode ray is not a flow of electrons. And as soon as you move away from the cathode and get out into the vacuum in the cathode ray tube, where is your medium for transmitting the waves there? You are not on metal anymore but in a vacuum, a very different medium? What you are trying to say is full of holes.
    1 The medium ends at the cathode and don't extend into the vacuum tube. So how can you say waves in a medium?
    2 If it really is waves and not electron flow, then the ray is not a flow of electrons.
    What you are trying to say is full of holes, not making any sense.

    [When you get into the vacuum in the tube, some kind of particles must be flowing; can't be waves anymore because you lost the medium. And if it can't be electrons flowing, then what is flowing? - Leedskalnin's opposing flow of north and south pole magnets moving with a corkscrew right hand twist.]
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    23,328
    ghost, i may be speaking out of turn but i get the impression you need to some heavy thinking about what you are posting.
    From what I read you are declaring that electromagnetic fields can not propagate in a vacuum which of course according to current thinking is untrue. the radio signal sent back to earth from the moon is an example of wave propagation in a vacuum.

    Is this radio signal from the moon a particle or wave or both is the big question science is still trying to work through and this is at a much deeper level than what has so far been discussed in this thread.

    However I am pretty sure that the radio signal from the moon would not be considered the flow of electrons........in tghe sense that you are defining electron.....maybe this is where we need to start? ....What is an electron?
     
  18. mercurio 9th dan seppuku sensei Registered Senior Member

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    Ghost, I really wish you'd started this thread on a different note, like limiting yourself to the very valid questions as to how electricity DOES work, and take it from there, but I must say one thing:

    you have not *actually* said ANYTHING wrong about electricity, contrary to some utter bull I've seen from the 'professional debunking'-crowd here...

    Just to give some counterweight to the 'let-me-kick-him-too' jerks on this forum, for which I can only apologise...

    I say go for it. You've made a few very valid points already.

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  19. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Ghost, it's plain you just don't understand physics! You don't think electrons flow fast enough in a piece of wire for electrons to explain current. Well, it's not just about speed, but volume!

    Q How many electrons flow past a point in a wire if just 1A of current is flowing?

    A One Coulomb. That's 6.24x10^18

    That's a lot of electrons. So a percentage can be liberated, accelerated, and form a cathode ray. A cathode ray isn't a bolt of lightning, there isn't much charge flowing in one. Some, targets need to be earthed to prevent static buildup repelling more incoming electrons, but it's not much. If you understood _any_ real physics, you'd know this.
     
  20. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Another pseud. Everything he's said has been wrong. He hasn't substantiated one claim he's made yet.

    Falsify what I've posted then.
     
  21. mercurio 9th dan seppuku sensei Registered Senior Member

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    What's a 'pseud'? Another of your 'scientific' assessments? :bugeye:
     
  22. btimsah Registered Senior Member

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    I'm a good example of a pseud..

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  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Is that a pseudo or a pseuda?

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    [In Portuguese the (a) or (o) on the end of the word determines gender.....ha]
     

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