How inevitable are the manifestations and events in our universe? How inevitable are pencils? How inevitable are governments? Education systems. How inevitable is baseball? How inevitable are the morphologies of familiar animals? Within millions of light years, we know there are likely to be many planets like Earth. The particles on these planets behave exactly as they do anywhere else in this universe, they marry and divorce. By constantly doing this, they slowly evolve and form larger and more complex structures. This is our universe’s most distinguishing feature: its propensity to self-organize. When you look at what’s happening under close scrutiny, it makes perfect sense why this molecule bonds with that anion. Zoom out and be shocked at what it’s part of. A living organism of ineffable complexity. It seems impossible but here it is right in front of you: inside of you. Just one giant mega computer running the same code over and over into eternity. In the process, self-sustaining (homeostatic) elements particulate and evolve in accordance with the rules and give them symmetry and beauty. Have you ever watched frost form? It’s like staring into the face of god. This code is the reason bubbles strive to be perfect spheres; it’s why the many animals that exist possess such beautiful and distinctive features; and it’s accountable for the spiral shape of galaxies. Perhaps there are an infinite number of computers like these running different programs, whose executions of code never manage to churn out anything interesting. No sentient entities trapped inside. No cats, no spiders, nihil. These universes exist, but they don’t make a sound. Maybe an aspect of me lives in one of those dead universes. I wouldn’t know, because I would be dead. But I am alive. Because of science we know that in this universe, life takes every chance it gets to manifest itself. It doesn’t even need to be carbon-based. There exists a silicon-based (interesting to note that carbon and silicon exist in the same family on the periodic table and thus exhibit very similar chemical properties) organism that thrives in an underwater volcanic environment using chemosynthesis to nurture and sustain itself. The Mars lander found fossils of ancient bacteria. And Mars is our nearest neighbor. Imagine what else it out there. Intuition tells me that there’s not much new beyond Earth because it doesn’t matter how far you travel. The rules will always be the same and matter will always behave the same no matter where you go. I’m sure if one traveled millions of light years away and visited and observed life on all the planets, the animals and the life resemble our Earthbound critters quite a bit. Of course it all happens in different stages. You would undoubtedly find bacteria before anything else and every great one in a while in your travels, you may find multicellular fauna. And if you were extraordinarily lucky, you’d find the familiar morphologies of animals here on Earth. Although there would likely be a lot of space in between planets full of life such as Earth, these planets permeate our universe. Universal emergent behavior. This is simply what our universe does and will continue to do forever. So are we lucky to be alive in this universe on a planet like this one?** Well if we weren’t, we wouldn’t know about it. So in one hand, our collective existence is unfathomably improbable. Even less probable than flipping a quarter and it landing on its side a million times consecutively. Probably. But if space and time are infinite, then everything that can happen will eventually happen. So on the other hand, our existence isn’t nearly as improbable as it is inevitable. Anyone have similar thoughts? Anything to say? ** In this book I have “Three Roads to Quantum Gravity” by physicist Lee Smolin, he was talking about a weak ‘anthropic principal’ whereby scientists justified their believe in god or some creative force responsible for the fine tuning of our universe in order to make it suitable for life. And apparently our universe having the features is does is insanely improbable.
How inevitable are the eventual climatic changes that will occur if I dump 10000 tons of nuclear waste on the surface of some planet within the universe? I think your argument is moot. Saying that anything can occur in an infinite field of possibilities is just like saying 1 = 1; nothing important is said. Still...you have some good points, and when I'm in a better mood, i"ll give a better response.
It is notable how you use the metaphor of the universe being like a computer. This assumption reminds me the older idea of the universe being like a cloclwork, a machine I dont thus think that. i am understanding matter and consciousness are ALWAYS togther. so creativity is inherent in reality, and includes life and death and recycling
What I really said was that in an infinite field of possibilities everything that can happen will eventually occur. If the probability of something happening is zero, it will never happen, period. There are certain conceiveable events that will never happen in this place. If you had the resources and the motivation to do such a thing, I'd say the eventual climactic changes are destined to be. It could have happened no other way.
I'd like to know this conceivable event that could never happen within the universe. That much nuclear waste is a byproduct of actions unnecessary in sustaining life. That is, it is a waste within this perfect organism of reality you describe where everything ultimately leads to where it was meant. The climatic changes-- climate changes-- that will occur in that environment would upset the natural flow. Also, it is not so much that life attempts to manifest itself anywhere possible as it is that under the right conditions, life has no choice but to manifest itself. It's much like a dropping apple has no choice but to fall to the ground as a result of gravity. That is, it is not so much that everything we have is inevitable as it is that certain cirmcumstances, within certain contexts, the rules that apply will always apply. Thus, our evolutionary path to democracy could have been changed given the loss of a war or the killing of a man. That in itself is not unchangeable or predestined. Even given the same evironment, without anything of the natural environment changing, human interactivity could have changed much of has come to be. So pencils, baseball caps, etc these are not inevitable per se. Within the HUMAN context, you could however say the development of governments is highly likely.
Of all the possibly inevitable things you mention, this is the most inevitable. We know that animals are like a tube, it makes sense for things to go in one end and out the other. It also makes sense to put the sense organs on the forward end. Other than that, we know that eyes were developed independently by several animals, and that more than one line of evolution resulted in a dog-like creature. Water-based animals probably tend towards a streamlined shape, because both fish, sharks, dolphins and whales look generally similar. There is still a wide range of possible body plans, but I have a feeling that if we encounter x-tra terrestrial life forms, they might look familiar.
I'd like to know what this 'feeling' is based upon, because I cannot see how they can look familiar unless we limit our definition of life to reflect life as can exist/develop within an environment similar to earth.
A conceivable event that will never happen. A planet's spontaneously inverting its gravity, sending everything into space. That will never happen. Electrons being attracted to electrons. Will never happen. Our universe spontaneously changing its rules. Will never happen. Kind of hard to think of examples, but kind of fun. I was going to say noble gases binding with other atoms, but I think that's been done in labs. You're saying that by you dropping 1,000 kiolograms of radioactive waste, you're changing the fate of the planet and its inhabitants. Preventing it from developing the way it was intended to. What I am saying is that the events that happened prior to you fucking everything up (you bastard Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ) left you no choice but to drop 1,000 kilograms of radioactive waste on the planet. I'm saying it was inevitable. There was no choice. The natural flow was destined to be upset. I agree completely. That's a much more accurate way of putting it. I'll address the rest of that post, but not now. Got some hw to do.
You might be interested to know that at one point in Earth's history, there was a natural nuclear reactor in what is now Africa. I googled it, and came up with a sciforums link! http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=12061&goto=nextnewest
The feeling is based on the idea that life is most likely to develop on a planet or moon, and it's body form must deal with the same sort of mediums found on Earth. Even if there's no water, the X-tra terrestrial would likely have to deal with gravity, possibly a liquid, or moving on land or through an atmosphere, so the possible forms would be similar to what has occured on earth. True, there have been some really weird animals and plants on earth, but the phenomenon of convergent evolution means that creatures sometimes stumble upon similar solutions to the same problems.
This is our universe’s most distinguishing feature: its propensity to self-organize. I prefer to think of it as law. Matter conforms because it must—for it knows no other way. …it makes perfect sense why this molecule bonds with that anion. Zoom out and be shocked at what it’s a part of. Just one giant mega computer running the same code over and over into eternity. In the process, self-sustaining (homeostatic) elements particulate and evolve in accordance with the rules and give them symmetry and beauty. The further away from matter's essence, the further away matter is to its intrinsic purpose—and the less severe are the laws of the Universe. The laws seem to disburden themselves of responsibility the more you "zoom" out. But the ramifications of this bestowed "freedom", of influencing events, are tragic since we now have creatures who are freaks: intermeddling and contravening with the Universe's essences by threatening to set—and *have* set—a nuclear torchlight to the Universe's existence. And these freaks are called humans. What's inevitable is the erratic and untrustworthy behaviour of a primitive and myopic sentient mind. The question is: how could this have happened?
