Here's an interesting article I found regarding Dime's death: The Iconoclast Basically, the author says that Dime brought about his own death by playing metal. A quote from the article:
This is what I hat someone who pretends to know a little something about the guitar uttering bull. I mean to pull a little bit of tab from a song (and tab is the pussy way to play learn how to read sheet music) and dis on it by say duh it dont look that hard. The poit being Dimebag pulled of some of the most memorable riffs and was well know for playing fast. For example the intro to something like Walk is simple a drop D tunning with a pull off from 2nd fret to 1st to open on E but when he hits the fast part it was memorable. But if hard is what your looking for I suggest trying to fathom the greatness of Dimebag by even remotely trying to play Regular People and playing it right. Or pop off one of his guitar solos. Or even better come off with the artificial harmonics that made By Demons be Driven have a distinct sound. Saying anything by Dimebag is easy really shows how much you should take your guitar and burn it cause faggots dont deserve to play that would down play the greatness of one of the greatest guitar players ever. Hammett and Hetfield wishes they could pull the same stuff Dimebag could. And let the record show I like old Metallica but Dimebag was simply a better guitarest. So think the next time you decide to down play a guitar legend. And oh yeah a lot of people think its a bend in Walk but its actually a pull off my brother sounded so much like a queer trying to play it with a bend. Its an over played ong anyway kind of like Pantera's Enter Sandman lol.
You are just a great big faggot even worst that the motherfucker above your post. You dare to sit there knowing nothing about guitar and obviously nothing about Heavy Metal and spew shit out of your mouth. You should be shot. One ask anyone who listens to Metal if they like Pantera they will laugh at you for such a rediculous question. And Randy Rhodes was someone who was good but not as good as Dimebag. Ozzy should have left Zack Wyld as his guitarest cause No More Tears was one of Ozzy's biggest selling albums. Yes worst day in metal history cause he was fucking shot asshole like John Lennon when he was shot was the worst day in rock history. the difference is that they didn't die of a drug overdose. Drug overdoses people look at as an act of stupidity but hen someone dies of reasons beyond their control then it is tragic. People do steal riffs from Pantera I dont remember hearing a lot of songs that used drop D tunning back in the 90's like in 5 minutes Alone. But now they are over done by almost every Metal band today. Atrificial Harmonics weren't very popular either I only remember on other artist doing it as pronounced as Dimebag in one song and that was the No More Tears song. hmmmm AFTER DIMEBAG. And yes guitarist aspire to be Dimebag not because he is dead but because he was fucking good. Also you shouldn't compare Randy Rhodes to Dimebag as Randy Rhodes died in the days of Glam metal and even though Dimebag played glam metal with Pantera back in the day he changed styles and gave Pantera and band him and his brother Vince started and gave it a make over that made an impact on Metal. So get you anti Pantera ass out of here and cry when someone like Billy Joel dies. So Fuck Off
Jumble: I was thinking the same (although, not quite as fervently!). I mean, what kind of pretentious wipe goes and argues that Dime wasn't that talented and defends it by providing an "example" of an easy riff? Tiassa, you may have found part of a Pantera song that doesn't require profound virtuosity to play, but you haven't posted the solo to that song, or any other of Dime's solos for that matter. Before I take that post seriously I'd like to see tiassa try and rip through one of Dime's solos. And after that, play an entire set of Pantera songs. I seriously doubt even Randy Rhoads could've done that. Rhoads was a good player, no question. But I think he was no where near as innovative as Dime. Rhoads' playing kind of following the trend at the time with a few tricks thrown in. NOBODY plays or writes like Dime. As an aside, I'm mainly talking about their solos, not their rhythm playing. *Edited grammar.
("He's simple, he's dumb, he's the pilot") Come on, Jumble Nuts. You can do better than that. You know, we do have a politics section if you have something against fags. In the meantime, you could try adding some sense of factual accuracy to your parade of insults. Listen up, child: it is evident that I have more respect for Darrell Abbott than you do. Jesus, why don't we just build the Dimebag-as-David statue right now so you can all queue up and kiss under the fig leaf? You realize you declare him at once a pop guitarist as well as a legend? It would be insulting to fags if I turned your remark back to you. Besides, decency prevents me from naming what your inaccurate statement makes you. Be careful what silly stake you put on yourself when you make a post so obviously full of crap as you have. Really, there's nothing like obliging yourself to suicide here. Yeah, as to that ... you're only testifying to Pantera's depth as a pop band. You're entitled to your opinion. Yes. Ozzy has been a pop artist for a while, now. Who cares how big the album sold? You know how many copies of a bad Beatles' cover Tiffany sold? Interesting that you're wailing such a fit about someone you describe in such superficial terms. Really, I would have thought Dimebag was more to you than just another pop trend. Not a lot of songs that used drop-D? (chortle) Come on, you're a pop aficionado. Surely you don't think Dimebag so original for using a tuning that was, in fact, being exploited left and right as Pantera took its rise to fame. Yes, they do what Dimebag did: recycle old riffs and concepts. Recycling is standard fare for genres. You're kidding me, right? There were enough artificial harmonics in the 1980s that they were already old and out of vogue by the time Pantera began its 1990s rise to fame. And all they did was bring another existing style to the fore. (chortle!) You're almost funny. Tell me, if your best friend was dead and everybody was lying about him in order to make themselves feel better, would you accept it? If not, why do you do that to Dimebag? Why inflate him into something he wasn't? It only diminishes the work he did. Written like a true fanatic. Do you think you're impressive, little one? Tuck in that lower lip before you trip on it. Ask a fan of the 1980s band Exhorder about Pantera's originality. Apparently some of those folks would have a problem with your deificaton of a pop guitarist for his "originality". Really, quit diminishing Dimebag with your sycophantic lust. Have you ever sat and listened to a fake eulogy? Where someone lies about the dead in order to make their own loss seem greater? I have. I can't imagine what real fans of Pantera--those who understand music and music culture, at least--would think of your degradation of Dimebag's memory. If music history started the day Pantera hit MTV, you might have a point. What you have done to Dimebag for the sake of your ego is terrible and tragic. If you have any sense of decency, you will take all of your Pantera paraphernalia into the yard and set it on fire, and when your friends ask you what you're doing, just tell them, "The right thing. I just realized I hated the f@ckers, anyway." Billy Joel ... (chortle!) ... at least find someone respectable to compare Dimebag to for the sake of insult. Although you have pointed out something interesting: it would have been insanely cool to hear Pantera do "Allentown".
Nebula So Dimebag was a pop star? Dude, seriously ... dead or not, even I have greater respect for Pantera than that. Jesus, y'all are just pissed because I don't find Pantera to be so original as the grieving sycophants would like to make them? What I'm telling you is this: It is more respectful to the dead if you extol their true virtues, not deify them for your own sense of ego. Period. It's real simple. If you can't figure that out, you never were paying attention. To Pantera, that is. Think nothing of me in that.
*Chortles* And they say metalheads are vulgar and combative! What, and say "Pantara?! What the fuck, sure they're pretty good sometimes but really?! Pantara?" Pantara did not change the way metal is written. Pantara did not change the way metal is played. Pantara did not change anything about metal, except maybe make it more marketable. Pantara is not even an especially good metal band, but a talented heavy metal band that thrives because they are unlistenable enough to be angry sounding and listenable enough to be mainstream. Pantara changed the course of metal? That's funny. Bands like Sabbath and Maiden started the sound, and then the great metal bands like Master, Napalm Death, Morbid Angel and Bathory developed it. Bands which you can talk about at a Pantara concert and hear "Huh?! What're those? Are they heavy? Where's my beer!" Hell, even Slayer and Carcass have had more influence on the *sound* of metal than Pantara has. Tiassa: I've neglected this thread. My esteemed counterpart makes some good points - the tabulature of one easy riff does not indicate that Dimebag played only easy riffs. I have a Damageplan cd - to my ears, Dimebag was quite talented in composition and playing. On the other hand, I'll wholly agree that he wasn't THE BESTEST GUITAREST FUCKIN EVER RRAWL /M\! !!!!111!
You won't find me objecting to that review. Even with out the "on the other hand". I admit I'm puzzled by the all-or-nothing rabid devotion of fans. I understood why most of the people turned out for Kurt, but even in this town that day is regarded as mythically perverse. Ever seen a barfight over the name of a fountain? Well, neither have I, but it almost came to that. Then again, I listen for other elements within the various forms of metal. "Emotion" is hard thing to quantify, but it does turn up, and even without blues progressions. One need not look to Bon Jovi, for instance, when one has King Diamond's Abigail at hand. Nor is that to be the end-all of metal, but rather one notable moment--"Black Horsemen"--in a diversely incestuous musical genre best-known for ripping riffs. Man, and to think I was tired of artificial harmonics by 1992 .... I hadn't realized they didn't exist yet.
On Pop Stars Nebula It was those parts that gave it away. Solos are about the least important thing in the world. It amounts to a lack of musical appreciation being held up as a reason for appreciating a musician. Even though I love the solo for Malmsteen's "I Am A Viking", playing scales fast isn't a sign of a virtuoso. In fact, compared to his ability, most of Malmsteen's riffs are overrated. While people are bagging on Randy Rhodes--and they're entitled to their opinions--I'd like to see an example of that historical aspect you mentioned. Rhodes picked up on a trend? Yeah, heavy music. But with all this time gone by, compare something Rhodes did with what came after him (e.g. King Diamond, "Sleepless Nights"--a clear tribute to Randy) and show me something similar that came beforehand. What was Rhodes ripping off, exactly? Quiet Riot?° • • • I mean, it's fifteen years later, and most who hear Andrew Wood (Mother Love Bone) these days say, "This is important, why?" And they have a point. Of course, they're listening to it today against the backdrop of what has come since. Whether or not it's a good thing is anyone's opinion, but that man almost saved glam from itself. Beyond that, Andy remains a potent voice in some people's lives from a greater artistic standpoint; he put voice and words to what many people could not say. • • • From the deathside, I listened to Carnivore, Dark Angel, and Venom. Pantera isn't tremendously different for me. Record the 1980s "pop metal" sounds with contemporary gear, and the songs will sound about four-thousand times larger. • • • Sometimes I think Pantera's credibility with fans came from two primary aspects: exposure current with Beavis & Butthead, and the more important factor that Pantera's sound promised for many salvation from the insidious trend of mixing rap with metal that came when people realized metal was dead as a commercial art form. People think I'm saying Pantera sucks? No, they just weren't a big deal to me. What they represented most was that they were going to be the ones left standing after Biohazard and the like went by the wayside. There are lots of bands from that era that fell away. Like their predecessors, who would have imagined, back in the 1980s, that Slayer would be the last band standing from that vein? Metallica has sold out, Anthrax couldn't cut it, and Megadeth is, well, pop. If I had paid closer attention in '91, at the Clash of the Titans show in San Francisco, I might have realized Slayer's sheer power. But with Jon Bush crooning for Anthrax and Dave Mustaine rehashing himself for the nth time I remember seeing that damned "Hero for a Day" video and realizing that Metallica had folded their hand. Maybe if it had been another band, instead of Pantera, they wouldn't have lasted as long. Maybe, what if, &c. But Pantera has long been stained by the "Cowboys From Hell" image. It seems as if it's only now that people wish to discuss the musicality of Pantera. Crying shame, that. Take a look at Jumble Nuts' post: Pantera was original for using one of the most-abused tunings in popular music? Drop-D is an easy shift for sound that slips the emptiness of open-E in heavy music: how many times can we re-imagine a riff like Poison's "Fallen Angel"? A straight D tuning is accommodating to songwriters. There's a C-tuning that the Beach Boys used--I can't remember specifically what--that became a standard for candy pop because all you have to do is put your fingers on the strings and strike a chord, and almost everything coming out of that guitar sounds aesthetically correct. And speaking of C tunings, Kim Thayil of Soundgarden played an insane C tuning in order to get down low like he did; it feels strange to have a guitar tuned like that; the whole thing feels loose and skanky. At least JN avoided the "It's just so cool" argument. That much, especially, I can appreciate. That music history must start no earlier than 1992 in order to make the argument for Dimebag's originality and virtuosity is a bit more problematic. Really, I've loved "Sleepless Nights" since I first heard it, but there were some, believe it or not, who thought those tones original. And that distraction was a shame because those two King Diamond albums, especially (Them and Sleepless Nights) are loaded up with insane meter changes that generally don't work anywhere but Broadway. And you can tell he'd been working on one of them for years; there's a drum bridge in "Tea" that sounds like a pop evolution of a part of "Satan's Fall", or at least that's the title that springs to mind, from his Mercyful Fate days. Yet what do I hear about, even from longtime King Diamond aficionados? Vocals and solos, vocals and solos, vocals and solos. Nothing about key, nothing about meter, nothing about presentation. In the end, the vocals turn more people off of King Diamond than onto, and solos are a dime a dozen. • • • People give me Kerrang! when they want to sound like Mojo. The one was for pop, and the other is for music. Does the number of women Wilt Chamberlain alleged to have f@cked in his life (nearly 30,000) have anything to do with his statistical prowess as a basketball player? Image and content are two different things, is all. • • • Lastly, I wanted to note something you and Jumble Nuts both touched on: It's worth mentioning that I did, in fact, ask around. Furthermore, "Cemetery Gates" was a song cited as a favorite of one Pantera listener, who liked their "mastery of dynamics" and "ability to move between styles". Perhaps if I had gone out and done a study of Pantera in order to intentionally pick an "easy" riff ... well, then maybe you'd have a point about pretentious wipes. Attitudes like that just do disservice to Dimebag's legitimate legacy, whatever that may be determined to be. Hell, I'm not the one that compared him to Billy Joel. _____________________ Notes: ° Quiet Riot - The irony is intentional.
:m: Ok there has been so much said to respond to individually. However, what you two don't even take into consideration. There are always gonna be people to defend the legacy of Dime just like there are retards today saying Metallica's Load/Reload albums were the last good thing Metallica did. Obviously you are 2 older people with a things for Glam Metal if I was up here saying Eruption was the best riff I ever heard you guys would probably agree. You see the difference is YOU LIKE GLAM METAL and me and a whole lot of people expand and like newer metal and don't downplay its impact on the Heavy metal industry. Lets look at the words from people who do know a thing or two about metal and see if you can argue with them "Bottom line: You've got Jimi Hendrix, you've got Eddie Van Halen, you've got Randy Rhoads and you've got Dimebag Darrell. His influence will be felt forever. And he was the most genuine, kindest guy you ever met. Dime would give you the shirt off his back. The good Lord put him down here to whoop some ass and make everybody happy, and now He needed him, so He took him. I'm sitting in Dime's garage right now — I'm down here to take care of his family, to keep everybody together — and I'm waiting for him to walk through the door. I'm looking at pictures of him on the wall, pictures of us hanging together, and it just crushes me inside. I've never had a brother, but he was as close to blood as possible. My love for him is unconditional and beyond forever." - Zakk Wylde The world hasn't seen someone with as strong an energy as Dimebag Darrell in my lifetime. He's one of those few people I've met who was absolutely special in every way." - Scott Ian "Darrell and Pantera were one of the main reasons I joined a metal band. This is a tragic loss for the music community and to all who knew him. Korn is truly shaken and we want to send our deepest condolences to the families of the deceased." - Jonathan Davis I wish to thank and remember Darrell for his amazing life and the gift that he shared with me and so many others. We must never forget his life and his gifts, his genius, his terrific personality, and the legacy he left behind to remember him by." -Dave Mustaine "He was a legend in this business, and an unbelievable musician. He will be missed by all." - Abe Cunningham "I think a lot of people know him as this amazing guitar player that you have on your wall or you try to emulate his style, but there are only a select few people that were let into his world and know how genuine and how down to earth he was. For that caliber of a guitar player to be that down to earth is so refreshing. He has every reason in the world to be like, 'Get away from me, kid. You don't know how to play.' He's not that guy. You were just instantly friends with him. It's amazing." - Paul Phillips "Dime's music was a huge influence on me personally and on Lamb of God as a whole. As a guitar player, he was a true innovator. His sound tone and style shaped modern metal and his riffs are constantly referenced by nearly every band in metal, including my own. Only recently did I have the pleasure of hanging out with him on a personal level, and he was as genuine and down to earth as anyone you would ever meet. This is a huge loss to the music world." - Mark Morton So if you want to argue with someone argue with the artists who pertray Dimebag as a guitar genious and a icon to us all. So Dimebag weather you like it or not was one of the greatest guitar players ever. And oh yeah a solo does show music appreciation and is pretty hard to do. That is why most people skip em when they play a song by another artist. Because its too hard. Drop D tunning is used by tons today Godsmack - Awake, Kid Rock - Almost everything, Lamb of God - a number of songs. It was just an example to note that Dimebag constatly thought of shit that he thought everyone would like. And as far as you two even thinking anyone here is calling Abbott a pop guitarist you two should have been his replacement when he was shot. You beloved Randy Rhodes was a pop guitarist, Eddie Van Halen is a pop guitarist And to my fucking recolection I dont remember hearing riffs from Dime on a Michael Jackson song. So you two can take your Glam Metal lovin asses to another forum and leave the people who changed with the times and no longer listen to GNR to the real heavy Metal.
Jumble Nuts, Hmm. I'll agree that Load/Reload weren't Metallica's last good albums. Know why? Because Load/Reload blew donkey balls. Metallica died long before either of those albums, my friend. You sorta just discredited yourself with this statement. Yeah! Because this is like the real heavy meatal appreciation forum and stuff. Here here. Wanna be moderator and stuff? Anyway, guy, it's cool that you're defending Dimebag and all, but you're missing the point. You can worship him all you want. You can say that he was the best thing that ever was all you want. You can say that Rhandy Rhodes was a pop guitarist all you want. None of it matters. Why? Because it's all opinion. These people you quoted? They don't matter a bit. Again. It's their opinions. I'm sure for every artist you can name who looks to Dimebag as an influence, you can point out others in the same genre and with similar sound who look at him as nothing. I'll agree that saying he was not an influence is ridiculous. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that Drop D tuning was their baby or anything. They too had their influences and didn't just spring up as creative geniuses from nowhere. I liked Pantera. They were a kick-ass band and it sucks that Dimebag is dead. An awesome guitar player is now dead. But, he's just another guitar player. The best guitar players are studio musicians and you've never even heard their names. Xev, Napalm Death? I listened to them back in the day. But, would you really say that they were influential? I mean how much can you listen to "DIe!!!!! DIIIIEEEE!!!!! DIE!!!!! DIIIEEEEE!!!!!" At least that's most of what I took from them. It has been a while since I've listened to them though. I wonder if I'm confusing them with another band? I can see the lead singer right now. Hair obscuring his face. I mean hanging right over his face, right? Hair occasionally flying forward from his exhalations and singing? Garbled lyrics that are indecipherable except for the occasional "Die!!" I suppose any band that a musician likes is influential to that person. But what about Napalm Death was influential, really? Tiassa, King Diamond? Fag!
This was justice. Exhorder and Prong want their riffs back Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Oh, and: Jimi Hendrix is overrated, as is SRV. Blues is for noodleheads. King Diamond is underrated for aesthetic reasons. Andres Segovia owns you all. Napalm Death were influential in early grindcore, as were Carcass and Terrorizer. Grindcore however is extremely simple music, so it was mainly an aesthetic influence (similar to that of Venom). Pantera was nothing special: heavy metal sensibilities with speed metal and quasi-death metal technique. Slipknot are as "genius" (LOL OMG WTF).
invert: From what I can tell from obsessively listening to my metal cds in sequential order, those were the bands that influenced metal in terms of complexity/architecture/riffing/whatever. Metal is kinda odd that way. I mean Venom is said to be wildly influential, but I don't "hear" Venom influence in a lot of the bands said to be influence by Venom. Nobody ever mentions Punk as influencing metal, but can't you just hear some 80s punk like DRI and GBH influences in black metal of that period? Especially Bathory, and Quorthon mentions "City Baby Attacked by Rats" as influence for his early albums. This book on grindcore history that I'm going to read claims that Cannibal Corpse was wildly influential, but I hear Cannibal Corpse and I think of a wildly untalented Deicide being played grungy with mildly amusing lyrics. I hear rip-off, and yet I'm told that this was the original. But then heavy metal? Is there good heavy metal anymore? Hell I don't listen to find out, I have friends who think that Slipnot and rap-metal poly-blends are fucking great, and I avoid the subject so as to maintain respect for them. Actual conversations with metalheads tend to go like this: "I liked them up until album x, but after that it's inconsistant but mostly crap" "Yeah, X band sold out!" "No, X band still plays hard!" One of my favorites was driving home from seeing Nile (I think), we were mocking the opening band: "Did you tear it up in the pit like they said?" "Yeah, what the fuck is with that, "tear it up in the pit!", like having a beer bottle hit you might deafen you for a minute and you wouldn't notice how much they sucked" "I think they figure their fans are stupid and need to be given precise instructions" Tiassa: Then we're on the same page. android: Die.
I am not an expert on metal, but I can state definitively to the guy who gave dimebag darrel credit for drop-d tuning, that drop-d tuning was used quite a bit during the 70's (a lot of alternate tunings were in use), and I think Les Paul used it too, back in like 1940 or something. And if you want to say he popularized it, I think there was this tiny little band called Led Zeppelin that had some songs with the old drop-D. *backing away from the discussion*
heh yea I know drop D tuning was used before dimebag. T-rex used it in get it on. I did not give credit to Dime for CREATING the tuning but for UTILIZING it more than other artists before him. He made it popular before in the 70's and 80's if you asked most people what a drop D tunning was they didn't know. Now almost everyone emulates it in atleast one of their songs. Dimebag made it popular kind of how Pete Townsend made power chords popular, The Beatles made the phsycodelic sound popular, and how Eddie Van Halen made tapping popular. I also have to agree also Andrea Segovia is a great and when he dies Im pretty sure faggots will be on another forum saying well he wasn't that great because for some reason not many people look outside their own music for actual talent because they don't understand the versity of different styles of music. Most people who claim they listen to classical for example will say they love Beethoven or Chopin but what they dont realize is THEY AREN"T LISTENING TO FUCKING THE ORIGINAL COMPOSER. I'm sure Mozart had his own recording studio in the day. But if you ask them what do they think of John Williams they will stare at you blankly. And Also what I can't understand is why people would look at a thread titled "The Death of Dimbag Darrell" and post on it dissing on him. And to feed some words back "How would you like it if your brother or friend died and everyone posted on the internet on how much of a petophiliac, motherfucking, ass cunt faggot."
invert_nexus, I just wanted to say that if you remember Phil Alsemo as having hair over his face you listed to stuff from Glamtera right about in the time of Cowboys from Hell they still sounded a little like they were coming out of the 80's however listen to the stuff from Vulgar Display of Power, The Great Southern Trendkill and Far Beyond Driven. This is when Pantera out did themselves and became one of the most popular metal bands. Also I am not saying that there are not other good guitarist out there I have a friend that is easily better than Dimebag because he is just a novel at the guitar. But for the sake of couriosity I asked him once what was a major influence on his guitar playing and his response was Dimebag. Me personally I was influenced to pick up the guitar by David Gilmour because I thought although he is slow playing wish the level at which he sustained each note was awesome that motherfucker could make a note last for days with bends and all. However later in life I listened to Dimebag and was equally blown away by his stuff as I was by Kirk Hammett off Ride the Lightning. So I just have no patience for someone who discredits the legacy that any artist leaves when they die. And Dimebag was a great guitar player just like John Lennon was a great song writer, Jim Morrison a great poet, etc. So unlike others on this forum I have respect for any artist who leaves behind great music. And oh yeah I know the last good Metallica album was the black album and not for the overplayed songs I really like The god that failed and My friend misery. And that wasn't the whole quote so if your gonna quote me and pick my words apart make sure you quote the who damn thing and not just a portion of it to make yourself seem right.
