Relocation as a solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict.

ok point noted. but the western govermants are anti-muslim. every since the birth of Islam the religion has been hated, and all of that hate just doesnt vanish in the middle of the air does it? its just that now Muslims arent hated becasue were Muslims (as in the past) but becasue of political/econmoic etc. reasons. when the west finally succeded in bringing down the Ottomon empire, dividing, weakening and destroying Muslim lands and most of all getting rid of the Khilifah and the international representation of a billion or so people and dozens of nations. it was a great victory. and when the USSR fell the only idelogy or power that was a threat to capitalism went too. or did? Islam remained although its politcal infrastructure had been destroyed after centuries of planning, a billion Muslims who accpected the faith remained.

now the west will make sure that the political structure of Islam will never regain, Muslim lands are ruled by dictators and puupets, Muslims are disunited and that Muslims never get a Khilifah or form of political representation on such a big scale.

alot of things HAVE worked.

for example: Muslims do not have a right to form an Islamic system in Europe but the West has no right to interfer with a region that contains billions of people. and i though the west is about democracy and freedom, then why is it making sure that Muslim lands cannot have democracy and supporting evil dictators. Iraq and Afghanistan were not invaded to install democracy the started of as having US support, being used and after their job was done, dumped.

the supression that the west has brought to Muslims will come to bite the west sooner or later.

Og God is this a joke!!! in the 20th century over 150,000,000 have died!!! theer has been for the first time a major world war and just when people though that ended there was another even bigger one. the United States has bombed over 25 countries since WW2, has created the nuclear bomb, its sanctions affect over 1 billion people. this century is the bloodiest and most evil yet despite mankinds extraordnary achievements in this period.

and in these mordern times you can do a lot more to destory a country without going to war which Capitalism has shown us this century.

firstly i dont understand what you mean by western cultures could you please elaborate a bit further. and it was the west that destroyed the Ottomons.

also the Ottomons were succesful but practised an incomplete ideoloogy. after shifting away from Divine laws and the many long lines of corrupt leaders everything went down hill.

you remaind me of stupid Arabs who had it all and ended up fat, drunk and rich thinking they would last forever. dont make the sam mistake that empires have been making for thousands of years.

finally we agree on something.

what part of "America will fal from being a suoer power" dont you understand. it is a fact, an absolute fact tha it will fall so get used to it. America can limit how badly it falls but it cant control if it will fall or not.

 

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oh yeah and like i said, can you please explain to me what you mean by western ideals.

 

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But that's not the point. The point is that the West doesn't target civilians (few anomalous cases)

Otherwise: I only meant to rape her not to get her pregnant!

 

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Well said :m:

 

Even better "i didn’t rape her, she fell on my penis". Sounds like a typical Zionist argument to me in response to a crime or any massacre committed by Israelis.

 

Amnesty International has several entries for the Palestinian Authority (as well as Israel), accusing them of crimes against humanity, unlawful detention, torture, unfair trials, and the death penalty.

 

Which only proves that a two state solution is a sham.

 

Which is obvioulsy good for Israel so don't complain. besides the main persecution is by the israelis who kicked them out, not their land in the first place. In a climate of oppression Palestinians are finding it hard to find a good leader.

 

Why is the two state solution not a viable idea?

 

Have you looked at the situation lately? The attempt to create a two state situation actually caused more problems then it solved. I think the best example is South Africa for a model on which Israel/Palestine can resolve this issue. With a shift in the world's power Israel cannot be dependant on the US for much longer, the US can't afford to sustain its already ridiculous amount of aid $12 billion to Israel per annum. The Palestinians may even have an advantage, because they don't depend on any real power for their financing, or weaponry. Israel on the otherhand, may have overstretched its natural ability to sustain itself (we know it has).

 

So then the solution is the eradication of Israel?

As long as the neocons stay in power here in the USA, Israel will always have support.

I don’t see South Africans end of apartheid being applicable, for starts Israelis and Palestinians would have to agree to live under one government, or at least one side would have the die off.

 

So then the solution is the eradication of Israel?


Did I say that? Why do you twist my words around? This isn't a mystery to you WCF, yet you still misrepresent what I mean? Obviously it calls for the abolision of both Israel and Palestine as entities, and come together as one state.

As long as the neocons stay in power here in the USA, Israel will always have support.

Well history is going against the US, so really I am not that all concerned.

I don’t see South Africans end of apartheid being applicable, for starts Israelis and Palestinians would have to agree to live under one government, or at least one side would have the die off.

Same argument was used in South Africa, and the South Africa situation was actually older then this one, from the 1890's (or 1600's if you include the Dutch). With enough international pressure, it can be done. It must be done.

 

Undecided,

Your twisting my words! I was simple asking a question not rephrasing you. try not the interpret everything as a attack.

Obviously you have confidence that single state will work but so far you have yet to prove how. Reference to the past and to other models is not proof that it will work in this situation. For starts explain how the one of a kind hatred between Palestinians and Israelis can be quenched?

 

Your twisting my words! I was simple asking a question not rephrasing you. try not the interpret everything as a attack.

What I found to be interesting was the absence of Palestine, you wanted me to garner that response because you know that I would have gotten rid of both entities. Why only state Israel? Does that garner a emotional response in you?

Obviously you have confidence that single state will work but so far you have yet to prove how.

I have outlined my plans in other threads, which I know you have read. Why are you claiming ignorance?

Reference to the past and to other models is not proof that it will work in this situation.

Then we should just give up on Chemotherapy? Think about it, it is this LACK of will and belief in fatalism that will never get peace into the region.

For starts explain how the one of a kind hatred between Palestinians and Israelis can be quenched?

Look to South Africa for your answer.

 

South Africans did not have the level of hated the Israelis and Palestinians have, specifically religious hated calling for total extermination (“death to all jews”) nor did South Africans have a very powerful and fanatic backing from its neighbor states like Palestine does. I simply project that that the replacement of Israeli/Palestine by a single state will not end very well for the former Israelis. The call for a Palestinian state and the end of Israel by many Arabs is like a mirror image of the call for a Zionist state by many Jews 70 years ago, only much stronger and even more fanatic. I do not believe the safety of the former Israelis in that prediction will be equal to the safety of the white settlers in South Africa.

 

South Africans did not have the level of hated the Israelis and Palestinians have,

Oh no? That's why the South African regime tried to create genetic weaponry to kill blacks? :bugeye:

nor did South Africans have a very powerful and fanatic backing from its neighbor states like Palestine does.

Palestine doesn't have much support from actual states more then certain members in those states. The surrounding states don't pacticularly like Palestine the idea. South Africa did have radical racist support from Rhodesia, and Portugese Africa.

I simply project that that the replacement of Israeli/Palestine by a single state will not end very well for the former Israelis.

If there is equal rights then at least we can avoid a war, this is GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAYS. The point is that if we have this situation the Israeli's are going to ethnically cleanse the region, and that would cause MUCH more problems for all involved. I project that if no solution is found a real war can be had.

The call for a Palestinian state and the end of Israel

Why are you bringing up this nonsense? Please...stay on topic or don't talk at all.

I do not believe the safety of the former Israelis in that prediction will be equal to the safety of the white settlers in South Africa.

OF course it would take decades of foreign rule (alas UN) with foreign troops to bring these two together.

 

Have you ever talked to a south-African? Out of the 1000 or so South-Africans I have spoken to in my life, maybe 3 of them didn't complain to me that Whites over there are an endangered species.

 

and you were assuming I was being fatalistic.

Vlad,

I said "or".

 

and you were assuming I was being fatalistic.

You are fatalistic in the idealistic sense (we can change ideas) we can't chage material fact. Israel and Palestine are ideals, not material reality.

 

Jews and Muslims have been living togerth in peace for centuries until aout 1900's when Zionism came about.

and i dont think it would be impossible uniting the two lands. it was done before. but then again Muslims cant stand other Muslims these days becaause of nationalism so facing Jews is a whole new problem. then of course we have radical jews too and the hatred of the past. however i do think it is possible. but for a complicated religious reason i KNOW there will be a huge Arab-Israeli war soon and Israel will lose somehow. enoigh with religion though. i dont think it is impossible but it will be hard.