The Hallelujah Kids.... disturbing

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Bells, Aug 30, 2004.

  1. Bells Staff Member

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    I was up late last night and I came upon a programme that I personally found to be deeply disturbing and frankly frightening. I don't think that this is a religious issue, but if the mods think it is, then please move it to the religious forum.

    The documentary was titled "The Hallelujah Kids", and it was a portrait of two children Shaun (19 years old) and Jacob (10 years old) and their father Mike Walters.

    Description of the documentary

    Shaun was ordained at the age of 6, and he then took to the road with his father as itinerant preachers. For 13 years they travelled around the bible belt of the US, going from church halls to revival meetings, often living out of a car, spreading the word of God. He was home schooled by his father, but this stopped when Shaun was 16, because it had become too difficult. The documentary maker first caught up with Shaun when he was 14, and he had captured a bright and fanatical child who was solely caught up in preaching and pulling in crowds of people wanting to see him in action. He was questioned about his life and lack of friends and family, and he stated that his sole calling was to preach and having friends did not matter. By the time Shaun turned 19, they had been joined by Jacob, who was just about to be ordained at the age of 10, and the father and 2 children had settled in a small town while the father attempted to start up a permanent ministry. Shaun had changed and become withdrawn, plagued by nightmares that the Devil was after him, he had no friends at all, virtually no education, could not interact socially with anyone aside from his father and brother. He only became animated when he preached and withdrew into himself as soon as the microphone was taken from him. He had apparently been diagnosed as being autistic, but his father had sought no medical help for him. When asked about the obviously failing mental health of his child, his father replied that he was happy that Shaun was not into the same things that boys his age are usually interested in and he stated that the fact that Shaun only showed signs of life when on the pulpit showed that Shaun was doing God's work. The mother (who lives hundreds of miles away and rarely sees the boys) has stated that she recognises that Shaun is in need of medical help because he is not a normal boy, but she feels that he should continue preaching (she too is also a preacher), because he needs to fulfil his calling, although how a child of 6 can have had a calling is beyond me. However, Shaun, having grown up, was no longer pulling in the crowds that he did when he was a small child.

    Enter Jacob, who at 10 years old, appeared to be healthier mentally and more active as a child his age should be. He too is as fanatical as his father, however he did not experience the gypsy lifestyle that his brother had endured, and he has friends and attends school. The documentary shows Jacob preaching in his father's church and also in other churches as they travel for Jacob's ordination. Apparently Jacob has chosen to become a minister all on his own, even though he did not know what being ordained was actually about. The parents were immensely proud that he was being ordained and following in the footsteps of other family members. Jacob had become the new child phenomenon, replacing Shaun, who appeared to be relegated to the background as Jacob took to the stage driving demons and illnesses out of the followers who attended these revival meetings.

    Breakdown of the documentary (Starts from page 3)

    The terrifying aspect for me while watching this documentary was that these were not normal children. They were completely immersed in preaching, and this was fully encouraged by their father. The father literally ignored Shaun and his continual descent into madness, concentrating on his new project, 10 year old Jacob who could draw in the crowd. The sad part of this story is that one knows that Jacob's fate could be the same as his brother if his father's ministry fails and they have to take to the road again.

    How the mother could allow this to happen is beyond me, but she was very proud that her boys had chosen to become ministers. One has to wonder if these children were not forced or pressured into it, especially seeing that they were both so young when they became ministers. The father continually preaches about Satan and the Devil to his children, and this is especially evident in Shaun's obsession with the Devil trying to destroy his life. Yet the father sees no problems with any of this. I felt disgusted as I watched these children become pawns in their father's striving for fame in his children becoming ministers. These children are paraded at these revival meetings with the father looking on proudly and happily.

    How can parents be allowed to do this to their children? Surely there are laws in place to protect children from such things? The father's fanaticism, to me, amounts to child abuse, especially in light of his refusing to seek medical help for Shaun, who is in dire need of it. I am amazed that the boys were not removed from the father's care in all this time.

    After having watched this documentary, I'm left to wonder to what extent should we involve children in religion. These children aren't allowed to be children, instead thrown into the world of fighting the Devil and curing people. These kids are too young to be able to make a choice and by the time they are old enough, they know of no other life. Should this be allowed to happen? Should parents be allowed to do this to their children?
     
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  3. StarOfEight A Man of Taste and Decency Registered Senior Member

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    I dunno if this all that different than those asshole failed jocks who try to live through their kids' athletic success.
     
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  5. Dreamwalker Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Whatever the reason, I do not think that it is a good idea. The children should have the right to choose for themself. Denying them a life with friends and a good education just to draw people into churches, and then "discard" the kids when they are no longer useful... that´s just mental rape.
     
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  7. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    If we didn’t allow people to indoctrinate their children into their religion there would be no religion within a generation. Brainwashing from birth is the best way to make someone accept something totally baseless and irrational. I agree children shouldn't be subjected to it, but its not going to happen in America. Having faith is still considered a virtue by the mainstream, and we even have a fanatic as a president who blocks gay rights, tries to take a woman’s right to choose, and has forbade medical research in the most revolutionary field of medicine in decades all because of purely religious reasons.
     
  8. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    4,832
    Praise the Lord. People fail to simply realize that God and the exaltation of His glory and proclamation of His majesty is the one and only think we should at all be concerned with. Secular America rejects this truth by hinding behind accusations of 'Puritanism'.


    Matthew 19
    29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.
     
  9. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,832
    Praise the Lord. People fail to simply realize that God and the exaltation of His glory and proclamation of His majesty is the one and only think we should at all be concerned with. Secular America rejects this truth by hinding behind accusations of 'Puritanism'.


    Matthew 19
    29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

    Mark 16
    26For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
     
  10. StarOfEight A Man of Taste and Decency Registered Senior Member

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    684
    Interesting ... so it's okay to indoctrinate people into a religion because that religion says it's okay? And by the way, that's how fuckin' cults operate ... separate you from the real world, including friends and family, so that you're more suspectible to their bullshit. But hey, Matthew and Mark agree with you, so you've got that goin' for ya'.
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    Praise the lord? Praise for what? This child has not had a chance to be a child. You get to sit at home, use the internet, go to school, have friends, watch TV, etc. If you were given a choice at the age of 6 South, would you have done the same as child has had to do? Notice how I have used the word 'choice' there South? Here in lies the difference between Matthew's verse and this child's life. These kids did not leave home to spread the word, they were taken away and made to do so.

    And what has this child received South? Oh that's right, he's received a decline in his mental health as well as a lack of help for his autism. How wonderful! Praise God!

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    Tell me something South, if this had been a story about a small child being forced to leave home with a fanatical parent, to travel the road, not being allowed to go to school or receive a proper education or have friends, not allowed to seek medical help for his illness, and all for anything that was not religious, would you be quoting Matthew?

    These children are being used as puppets by their fanatical parents, especially the father, to serve his own means of starting a ministry. These kids have no future. Especially the eldest son who has had no education and is mentally ill.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2004
  12. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    I've used it many times, but I never get tired of it. From The Onion's horoscopes:"The answer to all of your problem lies in reading the mis-translated myths of a stone age desert nomad tribe."
     
  13. Athelwulf Rest in peace Kurt... Registered Senior Member

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    Praise the Lord?!

    I can't believe that anyone on this Earth takes a BOOK so seriously! This story sickens me! That is a horrible father! Let the kids grow up on their own. Let the kids have a childhood! Everyone needs friends!

    This is how much damage a 5,000-year-old BOOK has done?! Yes, praise the Lord!

    OMFG!
     
  14. Athelwulf Rest in peace Kurt... Registered Senior Member

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    Why would people feel this compelled have everyone follow a BOOK? This really has to be a psychological problem. That, or it just solidifies the fact that so many people are so susceptible to cults.

    Come on! It's a BOOK! Ya really shouldn't take it as seriously as this father and his kids have!
     
  15. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    The quote wasn't even a story to begin with..

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  16. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    If I had the choice of getting to "sit at home, use the internet, go to school, have friends, watch TV, etc." or recieving a hundredfold in addition to ETERNAL life in heaven, I have no doubts what my choice will be, do you?

    The Bible does not pertain to Christians alone. Otherwise it would not be used to convert the heathen. The child, having recieved temporal physical problems, is surely jovial in spirit and rejoices greatly in the promise of eternal life and the hundredfold reward.

    These children are more or less investing in their future. Their eternal one, that is.
     
  17. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    Like I told Bells, they are 'investing' in their afterlife. It's what they believe, and yes, Matthew and Mark know what's best for you and me and them too. Obey them.

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  18. Bells Staff Member

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    The choice is there for you South, and yet here you are on the internet. Looks like no 'hundredfold eternal life in heaven' for you. Maybe in some small part of that religious brain of yours, you do see the folly and the insanity of the father's actions.

    Either that or your parents won't let you borrow the car.

    South, the whole point of the documentary was to show this child's unhappiness. He is not jovial in spirit, nor did he rejoice at the promise of eternal life. All he talked about was Satan trying to ruin his life and at one point, after he'd missed a chance at the microphone because his younger brother felt the need to keep on preaching, he thought his heart had stopped and that he had become a vampire. Not the speakings of a happy and jovial child. This boy was visibly unhappy and he admitted to being so.

    And the heathen? Heh! Give me a break!

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    I have to ask South, why aren't you out with your bible in one hand and tamborine in the other converting the heathen lost souls?

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    That comment shows the difference between a rational mind and your mind.
     
  19. Dreamwalker Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, they are investing in their death...

    And no matter what they do, I think that the elder borther should still get medical treatment. I do not think that a "madman" can do much good for god.
    And both should have had a choice.
     
  20. Facial Valued Senior Member

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    Didn't read the entire post, but I can already say that religion goes overboard sometimes.
     
  21. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    Am I out of line in wondering if SoutStar is actualy a troll? I've never thought so before, but ... wow. I find it difficult to believe he buys into what he is saying about these kids. If you are just having a bit of fun with us SS, PM me and let me know, don't worry I'm not interested in exposing you or anything, but it would be good for my peice of mind.
     
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think we need to go so far. Think of it like Pascal's Wager. Some of us don't buy it, but these kinds have swallowed it hook, line, and sinker. Whether it's responsible parenting is its own question, but if they win the bet, the answer will be "yes".

    At least, according to certain Christian theologies.

    It's worth mentioning here that the soul is the utmost currency in the Universe for believers. There is nothing more valuable than one's eternal condition. Personally, I think it's psychosis, but that's only worth its weight in electricity. It's an easy diagnosis to assert from where I sit.
     
  23. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    My previous post was one made uppon returning to Sciforums after a few weeks of not checking it. I was not prepaired for the shock of seeing someone defend despicable actions like this on the ethics board, but just recently I saw Dr. Lou talking about how it was a good thing those terrorists in Russia blew up those kids... yep, I'm back on the ethics board again!
     

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