************* M*W: I'm posting this mostly for SourStar, but for anyone else who is unfamiliar with Jesus escaping the crucifixion and sailing to France. Christians are ridding themselves of their immature beliefs about Jesus, Christianity, and Mary Magdalene. Christians are now questioning if Jesus was really crucified, or was he able to escape the crucifixion? Many Christians now realize the true origins of their religion. Did Jesus survive and flee with his wife, Mary Magdalene, to the south of France with their children? Did their descendants found the Merovingian dynasty? (named for MM, of course -- Mero (MM-the sea) vin (vine) gian (one who comes from the vine of Mary Magdalene). And was this the shocking "secret" preserved by that shadowy organization known as the Priory of Sion? The authors of several books on this subject delve into the mystery of Rennes-le-Chateau, the story which originally inspired biblical researchers and archeologists to do the investigation which led to their astounding new theories. Since that time, many other books have questioned the story of the early Christians, and they have even revived the idea that historical Jesus did not exist. Other researchers have shown that the dying demigod savior theme was present in many pagan religions of the time. Many biblical researchers have accepted the idea that Christianity was not based on any new ideas. The roots of Christianity can be found in Egyptian religion, especially the cult of Isis and Osiris. Osiris was killed on Friday and resurrected three days later by the power of his wife Isis, who then conceives their son, Horus. More parallels to Jesus can be found in the religion of Isis which emphasized repentance and confession. It was not Jesus who brought this message to the Jews, but another character who figures prominently in occult circles, John the Baptist. John the Baptist is seen by authors as a rival of Jesus who founded a substantial movement that continued to exist even though persecuted by Jews, Christians, and Muslims. John the Baptist took his ideas from Egypt, including immersion in water as a purification rite. Even the Greeks used immersion as a way to seek enlightenment. When held under the water until a person is just about to drown, there is an ecstacy that overcomes a drowning person. It's like going to sleep in ecstacy. I personally don't want to experience this! Biblical scholars believe that there was some secret knowledge of Mary Magdalene and John the Baptist that caused biblical scholars to hold John the Baptist and the Magdalene in higher regard than Jesus. This knowledge scholars believe is the wisdom of the Female principle once so important to ancient religions. Sacred sex was practiced in Egypt and was an off-shoot from the Eastern 'tantric sex.' The male dominated Christian Church suppressed these ideas and burned the texts that showed the importance of woman with theological ideas and ideals. The early Christians had women priests (temple priestesses or temple 'prostitutes' -- not to be associated with hookers). The sexes were equal in those days, until Judaism and Christianity came along. Jesus' rival was John the Baptist. John the Baptist practiced an ancient religion, and his message was suppressed by the Church. Biblical scholars and archeologists are still searching to find what was suppressed and just what John the Baptist's secret could be. Many organizations today don't believe Jesus was the Messiah (Jews and Muslims, for instance). If Jesus survived the crucifixion, proof will be found. The researchers and historians of Jesus who believe he survived the crucifixion say that only the most ignorant of Christians today refute the claim. Yet, there is still no proof that Jesus even existed. Since Christianity emphasizes "faith" (belief with no proof), the actual proof when found should make no difference to true Christian believers. There are even people who say Christianity could survive without any belief in Jesus at all, with a "do good to others" philosophy. Many biblical archeologists have contributed to the Egyptian origins of Jesus' teachings. In fact, they are leaning toward the idea that Jesus was a Pharaoh. Christianity was not a cult that began within Judaism, that is a misconception. Researchers know that the Church suppressed its pagan origins. The original holy family was Osiris, Isis and Horus, another dying demigod savior who was resurrected on the third day. The Jesus Myth was taken from this. Books containing the works of biblical scholars, archeologists, and independent researchers on these subjects, can be found here: Bloodline of the Holy Grail: The Genealogy of Jesus ~ Laurence Gardner Holy Blood, Holy Grail ~ Baigent, Lee and Lincoln The Templar Revelation ~ Picknett and Prince The Gospel of Mary Magdalene ~ Jean-Yves Le Loup Jesus: Last of the Pharaoh's ~ Ralph Ellis Jesus: One Hundred Years Before Christ ~ Alvar Ellegard Mary: The Unauthorized Biography ~ Michael Jordan This list is not all inclusive.
************* M*W: I see that SourStar has refused to answer my post out of ignorance. I know that some of you have read about this theory, because we have discussed it on PMs. Tell me what you think or what you've read. The xians are purposefully not answering.
That Jesus existed cannot be totally refuted due to his being mentioned in so many religious texts from that time, and I don't just mean the Bible. That he was crucified is also mentioned several times in other texts. Few historians dispute that he existed, however, the point of contention arises in his being deemed to be the Messiah. Although MW, it would be prudent to not take works of fiction so much to heart, be those works the Bible or the Da Vinci Code. Christianity have based so much of their faith on the notion that he rose from the dead and ascended into heaven, that I often wonder what would happen if proof was ever forthcoming that he did not rise from the dead. Could Christianity survive such a discovery? Possibly yes, because as you have stated, it was his teachings that should matter more to Christians. However, one should also keep in mind that any such discoveries would also be at war with Christianity and they would do all that they could to refute it, however with no actual proof that he did in fact rise from the dead, this argument will probably plague mankind to the end of time.
Which ones, for example. I have never seen it anywhere else, and would like to read it for myself. Please let me know which texts, as I have copies of hundreds of different texts I can search through. Thanks.
The Torah for example and the Quran is another example. For other writings, you could also look at the Annals of Cornelius Tacitus (approx 55-120 CE) who mentions Jesus, as well as the writings of Flavius Josephus who existed in the first century who also mentions Jesus in a couple of his writings. While these texts do mention a man with the name of Jesus having existed and even put to death, they do not state that he was the Messiah. Christians have deitified him while others do not. His name is merely mentioned and his actions and his death talked about in some of these texts. Most just assume that it is the same person. In reality, we must question whether these texts have been tampered with, but on the whole, who really knows? As I stated above, this is a question that will plague mankind forever and also allows us to poke fun at the believers. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Jesus is not mentioned in "a couple of his writings". Someone named Jesus was mentioned as little more than an afterthought in a single passage. Besides that, the entry was discredited as a forgery. Can you give me chapter and verse please? I am not being argumentative, or claiming they don't exist. They may very well exist, and if they do I would very much like to read these entries. By the way, you said you don't just mean the bible. When you say the Torah, are you referring to the pentateuch or the entire Old Testament (Tanakh) or something else? Or did you mean other than the New Testament? Either way, please cite the chapter and verse. I have never heard of him. I would like to look into that. Do you have any links (preferrably unbiased)? So, if you can cite chapter and verse for me from the Quran, we have one religious book. Come on... you gotta give me more than that to backup:
But I think it's even more fun to poke fun at the fact that there is not a shred of solid evidence that their savior even existed, nevermind him being a messiah. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
The Qur'an is simple to find, and it's explicit mention of "but not crucified" is rather apparant. Islam believes that Jesus was a prophet, and the Quran gives a story of Jesus' birth. Josephus, needless to say, is not easily said to be a forgery. Many of the early church father's made comments that Josephus mentioned Jesus; the text certaintly mentioned Jesus before the interpolations were made. After a few hundred years, however, a Christian may have put "if he shall be called God" along with a few other interpolations. I think Bells is mistaking the Torah for the Talmud? Jesus(well, an insult derived from his name) is mentioned several times in the Talmud. In the Torah, Jesus is as well. I've found, though, that Christians are the only one who sees his there Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! In the description of the fire of Rome, Tacitus does mention Jesus. But it appears to be from second hand information, based upon his knowledge of Christianity.
One_Raven, you'll have to excuse me as I'm replying to this briefly while on a break from writing a paper. I will try to get back to you on this in more detail later on, but here is a brief response with some links for you. I'm sure that if you want more detail, that you are more than capable of doing a quick search yourself Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!, but here goes anyway. Here is a link that discusses the ancient Jewish texts that the mention of a Jesus. Click on each name and it gives a breakdown and general discussion of each text: http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/JewishJesus/ Cornelius Tactus was a Roman historian, who as Okinrus stated above, did mention Jesus in his Annals. Again as Okinrus mentioned, his mentioning of Jesus is based on heresay. Here is the first link I found after a quick search: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/scott_oser/hojfaq.html As for the Quran, here is a site that lists the chapters and verses: http://www.islam4all.com/jesus_in_the_quran.htm I do know that the Talmud (thanks Okinrus.. lol) referred to Jesus as a false prophet. I think it was the Babylonean Talmud who referred to him as Jeshu ha-Nocri who was hanged on the eve of the Passover for sorcery and false teaching. Don't ask me to quote anything at the moment as time does not allow it, sorry about that. But I will get back to you on this as soon as I can.
